Thanks for sticking with me...you have been a good source of sanity...even more so than my IC.

quote
[color:"red"] I would STILL be M'ed...she would STILL be drinking and (more than likely) having A's, which I would have to deal with if she came back and wanted to reconcile. I cannot tolerate that mentally...SF with ANYONE is the BIG DEAL BREAKER FOR ME!
So what if you get divorced and she comes back and wants to reconcile? (this is more of a rhetorical question than something you need to answer)
[/color]
My psyche could accept that...strangely enought. IF we were D'ed and she had SF, that is "acceptable", as she was not my wife at the time. If we are D'ed, WW really wants to reconcile after the remote and I am not involved with anyone substantially, I would cerainly like to talk with her about that to begin reconciliation.

Quote
[color:"red"]That ENDS IT ALL...Plan B or not.
Again, you can PLan B & divorce. It does not require reconciliation or even the hope of reconciliation. [/color]

If (there a lot of them, aren't there? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />) she has not committed to stopping drinking/stopped drinking by the time she leaves, I view that as an "open wound" that needs to be closed by my complete separation from WW (D). It get back to the above comment...I'd rather deal with any future SF of hers if she was single at the time and not my wife.

If she goes over there without the drinking firmly under control, it will happen...I am very certain of it. D allows me to remove myself COMPLETELY from the hurt of having it happen again while we are M'ed.

I know it sounds crazy, but it makes sense to me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I had thought abbout calling SH, but not knowing A(at this time) what her REAL plans are to handle her drinking problem, its my understanding that its pretty pointless trying to fix an M with an unresolved addiction that fuels the marital problems...Am I wrong?

I can see calling him once I KNOW she is committed to fixing the booze problem.

Thanks Chris,

WNB

I'd much rather deal with:

"WNB, I had some meaningless flings while I was there, I have learned a lot about myself and know that I have moved beyond such behavior. Can we talk about reconciliation and, if possible, re-marriage?"

than:

"WNB, I had some meaningless flings while I was there, while we were still married (and in Plan B), I have learned a lot about myself and know that I have moved beyond such behavior. Can we talk about reconciliation and repairing our marriage?"

At least in the first scenario, she was SINGLE and not beholden to me in any way.

The second scenario involves MORE of the "RAPE" that has me at this site to begin with and it is TOO much for me to bear.

I had thought abbout calling SH, but not knowing A(at this time) what her REAL plans are to handle her drinking problem, its my understanding that its pretty pointless trying to fix an M with an unresolved addiction that fuels the marital problems...Am I wrong?
What she does is irrelevant to you calling Steve.
Right now this is all about actions you should be taking

I can see calling him once I KNOW she is committed to fixing the booze problem.
He can help you to make a plan to help YOU deal with everything (show you what your options are and the good/bad of them and how to implement them) whether she quits the booze or not.

Steve does not simply do "marriage counseling" (as in "this is what you need to do to fix your marriage") but also will help you to get straight on how to deal with your own actions/reactions, for the betterment of YOU, regardless of the marriage.

A call to SH is sounding a bit better...I have to focus more on doing what is good for ME, not the M...if a recovered M is a byproduct of working on me, good deal. If not, I have still improved myself.

Saw another post today and it had a quote about the opposite of love not being hate, but indifference. Don't worry, I am not back to making poor decisions based on my less than reliable emotional reactions.

I do have to be honest and I am not NEARLY as concerned about contact with WW anymore. I am wearying of her "struggle" and can see the indifference in me growing. It's not toxic, but there does reach a point when ANY spouse has to realize THEY alone cannot save the M. THey need HELP from their spouse.

Other than her being in IC, she's not doing much except trying to push me away for reasons known only to her. Too many more "pushes" and I will not even want to consider hearing from her again, much less reconciling. Perhaps this is her plan?

I had wanted to tell her that, if she wanted a D, she would get NO help (monetary or otherwise) from me and all I will do is sign papers IF she actually carries through with her purported "desire to be WW...not Mom, not wife". I also wanted to re-establish HONESTY...if she is going to tell me HURTFUL and untrue things (like not regretting the A's), she's having an issue with honesty on top of everything else. We also needed to talk about her drinking...but alas being a (I am seeing it now) a classic CA, none of the issues have been discussed.

She is going away on business Wed - Fri. I am interested to see if she will even contact me before she leaves about our postponed R talk.

I highly doubt it...

It's funny, I look at ALL of the issues listed above and I really wonder sometimes why the F!@# am I even bothering? I know the answer...I loved her at one point and we had a wonderful life and I MUST celanse myself of any regret for this M ending, which, on days like today, surely seems like it will.

I also have 2 1/2 months to REALLY explore ALL possibilities of repairing the M.

I WILL NOT remain M'ed to WW while she is remote without positive resolve from her regarding her drinking and behavior.

I will NOT want to be M'ed to her as that "alien" that took away my loving W is NOT someone I would associate with, much less marry.

I have taken a hard look at my sordid past behavior and resolved to never let it happen again...is she so STUPID that she cannot see how EVIL that behavior really is?

I've got another one-way ticket for a ride on the EMOTINAL ROLLERCOASTER!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

WNB

I have to focus more on doing what is good for ME, not the M...if a recovered M is a byproduct of working on me, good deal. If not, I have still improved myself.
There ya' go! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
That is one thing people need to learn about MB principles.
MB may not save their marriage but if they have learned (and applied) something, it will have worked.

is she so STUPID that she cannot see how EVIL that behavior really is?

Remember that most of the time, a ws does not have an affair to hurt a bs, they do it because it makes them feel good (they are being selfish).
It's similar to saying that someone hates all the starving people in Indonesia because they are not over there helping them.
Make sense?

EVIL usually wears some glittery pleasure garnish to make it attractive to our weaknesses.

Pep<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

[color:"red"] Quote:
Remember that most of the time, a ws does not have an affair to hurt a bs, they do it because it makes them feel good (they are being selfish).
It's similar to saying that someone hates all the starving people in Indonesia because they are not over there helping them.
Make sense?
[/color]

I agree conceptually, but I simply cannot understand HOW, a wife who professes to love their husband, KNOWING that A's are UNACCEPTABLE in the M, will purposefully, willfully and repeatedly, F!@K other men.

I look back on my own A (with then my OW, now my WW) in 1996 and I used it as a catalyst to get out of M #1...in hindsight, I was being that selfish too.

I make NO excuses for what I did, but I didn't love my XW...I was too chicken to leave as MC was something that had gone nowhere with us in the past...a festering sore.

To be clear, I know that I "raped" XW just like WW has "raped" me.

The sticking point for me is this...WW STILL says she loves me...There were, to the best of my knowledge NO problems with our M...neither one of us had problems!

That being said, I refer to my above question, with no KNOWN problems in the M, she REPEATEDLY engaged in A's with three men, KNOWING good and well I was NOT cool with that.

How is that not about me?

I just don't get it...yet.

I guess it's a character issue.

You married a woman knowing that her character allowed her to partake in adultery if adultery got her something she desired.

She knows A's are acceptable because you and she did commit adultery together before you were married.

I can't think of anything nice to say ... sorry.

Pep

Thanks Pep...

I'd rather have an unvarnished unpleasantry than a sugar-coated falsehood. I was a blind, fog-bound adulterer too...the lesson I learned was WHOLLY lost on her, I am sorry to say.

I am not seeing a lot to be positive about at this point...I am going to give our M the best I can until the end of Aug, but the bulk of the "work" (drinking, character, POSITIVE CHANGE...THEN convincing me its real) is all on her.

I feel like she avoids me, which is her way to deal with this (CA). I can only control me...not her. Her actions are not garnering her any LU in my bank! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

A house built with termite-infested wood will not long stand...

WNB

You and me both <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Take your time with this .... you probably have more lessons to learn here. But also, protect yourself from disease.

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

The last known sexual contact with any OM's(I am fairly certain) was five years ago. Her story has been holding since the beginning...no changes.

That is not to say anything aobut the three "almosts" (that I know about) that didn't work out since then. She's not an "EA'er"...just PA'er.

We haven't had SF since Feb...I am torn about it...she is ambivalent at best and, while I really wnat the physical contact/intimacy, I am not sure I need to have that with her until our "D or M" issue is settled later this summer.

More importantly, I "think" she is avoiding me and I am going to let her continue to do so...f!@#ing CA hor$e$[censored]. I hate tha cowardly $h!t. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

$h!t

What a mess I am in...

Just a bump to keep my sad tale NEAR the top...

NSTR...just making it through the day...

WNB