Hang in there second best.I think by talking with us you will come around to the way of thinking that will get you back on track with how a woman with integrity and honesty acts.You don't want to become an WS.Trust us on that one.People such as yourself have been coming through here for a long time and we know of what we speak.

I can sympathize with how hard this is and although your WH is not here to speak for himself,we get it that he was not being the best he could be in your marriage.Certainly there would be a lot to work on but if you ever do need to end the marriage,make on the "best" terms possible: with knowing full well you did your best to do all you could to save it,you were faithful till the very end and that you can look your children in the eyes and not be ashamed or guilt ridden for having acted in a purely selfish way.There is nothing like having a clear conscience to begin a new life,with or without your WH or another man.

O

It is an EA. Bottom line... would you want your H doing these things? If the answer is "No", then you know you need to stop this relationship--now. It is an EA.

so you all think it is a EA... I am sad that is what all think- now I have to really look into what is going on and what I want out of my marriage, and my life and reexamin things.

I would be really heartbroken if I were to find out that my H was talking to another woman about our problems, I use to not mind as he was getting great ideas on how to help us- but then his last "project" (woman who he liked to help better themselves) turned into his lover and he left, I thought I was going to die. I know that you all know the feelings all to well. no need to rehash. now what

Absolutely, figure out what you want... But remember the grass isn't instantly greener it takes a long time to grow. Don't replace one with another, you need to find yourself and love yourself in either situation.

Actually after I sat back and thought about it a bit your post kind of hit me hard. Even though I came up with the totally black or white answer in my previous post, I was then thinking that through my own journey I have had some female friends that have helped me immensly and I don't think I could have gotten where I am today without them.

And yes I think I'm emotionally attached to many of them, but you are with all close friends aren't you? I know I am, whether its male or female.

But when you are in such a fragile emotional state and so lonely when you are going though this all I wonder what would have happened if I had said something I shouldn't have or they had? There definitely have been some situations and circumstances during my journey where I was confused about my feelings and could have gotten myself into a big mess if I wasn't careful.

I don't know but I think from what you've described things have been said which go too far. When you have to sneak around to talk to them and someone says they think they are in love with you it sort of changes the whole perspective of the friendship. Its going beyond that friendship and it definitely can't be good for someone who is fighting to save their marriage.

I do feel for what you are struggling with and hope you can sort through it!

Miker

Dear Secondbest,

First I want to say, I have much sympathy for your situation and I’m sorry for all the pain you’re going through because of your H’s betrayal… <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I’m a FWW who was involved in an inappropriate friendship (check my signature) so I completely understand your attachment to your “friend” and your unwillingness to ‘let go’ of this “friendship”. At the time (after I've started NC with OM) I was happily married and my H didn't neglect me, but in spite of this, it was still very difficult for me to give up the “friendship”…so I can just imagine how difficult this will be for you…I really do…BUT…if you want to keep your self-respect and integrity and want to stand a chance to save your M, YOU NEED TO DO THE RIGHT THING in spite of your feelings and give up this “friendship” and ‘let go’ of it. Please listen to the people here - they KNOW what they are talking about!

Secondbest, if you break contact with OM it will NOT be true that you will have no one to talk to…you will have us, this board and people who really care for you and your M… And yes, you will go through withdrawal from your “friend”, but we are here to support you and help you…

Another thing - the fact that you are in such a fragile emotional state right now make you especially and extremely vulnerable to the attention of your “friend” (or any other concerned man for that matter), so right now, it will be the best for you to stay away from opposite sex friends completely… Rather seek same sex friends to talk to or go to a pastor and/or same sex counselor. Stay away from private e-mailing or internet communication with men completely (except on boards and forums like this of course). I don’t say that you can’t have friendships with the opposite sex ever again, but now is not a good time and if you ever have a friendship with a man again in future, you have to make sure the friendship is (and stay) purely platonic and that both of you have strong boundaries in place… Platonic opposite sex friends DON’T flirt, they DON’T share or have romantic feelings for one another; they DON’T discuss their spouses & marriages and other intimate issues; they DON’T exclude the spouse(s) from the friendship etc. etc. Personally I believe it’s best to have opposite sex friends where the person is a friend of both the spouses and where both spouses can share time with the person. No sharing recreational and leisure time alone together and no secret conversations, e-mailing, etc. etc. It’s all about personal boundaries and honesty and openness with your spouse... And I do hope if you share this with your H (something I believe you must do except if you fear physical violence from him) that this will be a HUGE wake-up call for him...

Further I think it will help if you can get a better understanding of the dynamics of EA’s and inappropriate relationships/friendships with the opposite sex… A book I can highly recommend for you to read is ”Not Just Friends” by Shirley Glass.

You will also benefit from reading the following link:

Define Emotional Affair. (Also read the link I’ve attached in my post on that thread).

Hope this helps. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Blessings,
Suzet

can I fix this with out giving up the friendship?

My Squid told me the same words after her EA turned into a PA.

Read 'Not Just Friends' by Shirley Glass. No such thing as a platonic intimate frindship with the opposite sex.

The first time you shared anything that you would not have with either spouse there it became a risk.

Secondbest,

Yes it is an EA. You both have feelings of more than a friendship. You both admitted to these feelings. You are both in a vulnerable state. He going through a divorce and you dealing with your H's A. You are both sharing from your hearts about your M and your troubles and this should never happen with another man.

You may think this man has helped you, but in reality since you are NOW having feelings for this man, has he really helped you? If you don't stop now, you will find that it will most difficult to stop those feelings. The more you talk with this man, the stronger your feelings will get. And it doesn't matter that he is a few states away from you. The OM in my situation was 900 miles away from me and I was ready to fly to meet him...only it didn't happen because his W found my emails. I speak from experience here as many others here have also. Having NC with this man will be difficult and you will feel as if you are losing a friend, but we are all here to help you. I really understand how hard it is to say good-bye to this "friendship"...it's not an easy thing. There are many here that have done the same and we can help you through this.

I understand that you are having difficulties with you H and M, but how better to fix it than to end communications with this man and focus on your M with your H (and not this OM)?

2ndbest,

One of the things I've noticed about your previous posts on this thread is that you keep saying that you want the H that your H used to be and you want everything to be the way it used to be.

Unfortunately....that's not possible.

I'm not saying that your M will never be as good as it used to be...or that your H will never compare to the man he used to be.....but neither will ever be the way they/it used to be because of the A....or A's.

The dynamics of an A change people drastically.

I'm sure others picked up on this also.....but I wanted to bring it up.



So you both post here. You both know how it goes.

You admit that you are not sure if things will progress in one sentence and then in another sentence the 2 of you are just friends.

Your H is bothered by the fact that you talk to this OM....but...you continue to talk to him. AND...your H has no clue as to how much you REALLY do talk to him.

I'm definately not sitting here judging you as I am as guilty of an EA as my H is of a PA.

BUT.....a line has been crossed. You both know it. Now you deal with it.

Everyone has been so focused on the fact that you are "talking" to this OM....yes I will call him the OM....since that is what he is at the moment....that I think a few things have been ignored.

I think that you are really confused at the moment because your posts are full of contradictions.

EXAMPLES:

You say that you are a FBS....but....your H continues to talk to and receives calls from other women.

You took your H back mainly for the kids....but...you cannot go on without him?

You see this man as only a friend....but....you admit freely that you are becoming attracted to him.

You say that you would be really hurt if you found out that your H was talking another woman about your problems.....but.....he IS talking to other women....you just don't know what he is talking to them about.



The river of denial runs right through your living room honey.

Your H's actions speak louder than words....and I'm not willing to call him a FWS just yet.

He wants you to stay out of his business....red flag.
He takes every opportunity to be away from you....red flag.
He receives calls and texts from other women....red flag.
He doesn't work on your marriage.......BIG RED FLAG.

The flags are waving.....on both sides.

you are right I am full of contradictions. i want to believe that we are just friends, but my heart is screaming otherwise. i guess i do not want to admit to what I am doing. You all are so right. I talked to him just last night, and we had a great conversation, we discussed many things, and neither one of us want to stop talking to one another even thought we know it is what we SHOULD do. I may be leaning towards your way of thinking however. I am done with my job in 7 days and will have very limited access to the internet after such time. I worry that I will lose contact with him. Maybe that will be for the best. Maybe not.

I too see the red flags waving all over the place- I see H's and I see mine. part of me WANTS H to find out about my conversations with this man so that maybe he will be jealous, or he won't care, or he will demand a divorce. i just want things to go one way or the other, this road block we hit has been so hard, I do not like sitting here wondering. Something needs to change.

Then change it.

the question is is it me that needs to change, and if so how do I go about changeing me? Is it really NC that needs to happen or what??

In order to change....you have to know what you want to change.

In order to know what you want to change....you have to know what you want.

In order to do this.....you have to give up your "feelings" for this other guy. It's best for YOU.....not to mention the marriage that you claim to want to save. This other guy knows this as well.

It's time to focus on YOURSELF. You can't begin to recover in your marriage if your personal recovery hasn't even begun.

You need to decide if it's recovery or your old marriage that you want. You can't have both. They are 2 different things now.

You need to decide how long you are willing to put up with your H's crap....cuz that's what it is.

You need to decide what you WILL and WILL NOT put up with in the future....and be firm about it.

You need to re-set your own boundaries.....since you've already crossed them.

You need to realize that with or without your H.....you will be fine.

You need to open your eyes and accept the fact that your H is not yet a FWS and you are not in recovery.

Take a step back.....and try to look at your situation from someone elses view....and you will be surprised at what you see.

And always remember that people treat you the way you allow them to treat you.

You've heard it repeatedly, from everyone. Now...read this again.


YES, NC IS THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN START TO FIX THIS PROBLEM!!!!


I think and hope you saw it that time.

Next step...tell your husband, and start fixing the things that BOTH of you seem to be lacking in your M at this point.

secondbest, Yes NC needs to happen. How can change happen if you don't start with you? The very words you said above are the very words my OM and I spoke. We KNEW we SHOULD stop, but we didn't want to. You have crossed over the line with this man. You know what you SHOULD do and I do realize it's very hard at this point to give up this OM...I was there and I know it's tough. Only I made the wrong choice when I was at the same crossroad as you. Believe me as hard as it may be to say good-bye to this OM now, it WILL become MUCH HARDER if you continue to communicate with him. Please make the right choice NOW before things become worse.

NOT TO persue this OM, but because I am basically not happy. My H treats me so poorly, and even worse around other people. I am thinking that maybe we need some time apart. I will take care of my children and try to find me. I feel like a single parent already and a maid for my husband. I am either going to go on "strike" when it comes to my H and move down stairs or have him, or ask for a seperation and have him move out for a while. Does anyone have any guidance?

do you think that I am in "FOG LAND" when I find so much wrong with what my H does? am I too sensitive? I just do not see him willing to put any effort into our marriage, and that he is just floating through, I have work to put into it as well, but am wondering if a seperation would be good for us, to either approciate eachother again, or to figure out that we are better off apart????

2ndbest!!! I have been in the same boat as you. I justified an online 'friendship' and felt it was safe because he lived 2500 miles away from me. My exH knew I chatted with him but not nearly to extent that I did. We shared our marriage problems with each other, and admitted attraction to each other.
This sounds sooooooo similar to my situation years ago. I'm telling you now, NC is the ONLY option. Do it now. I tried NC several times and it was soooo hard, and emotionally painful. I kept going back into the EA to ease the withdrawl. It's a terrible trap, and it only gets harder to get out of the longer you're in it!
You notice I mentioned exH??
It's not worth it, I promise! I have the scars to prove it!!!

PM me if you want more info. You sound just like me about 6 years ago. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I would like more information- whatever you feel comfortable sharing. Like if you feel you made a mistake, and what you would change if you could. I am so confused right now. I am leaving for work shortly but will check later tonight

Secondbest,

I will share anything if it helps you. I am in the process of working through a bunch of stuff in my life. Trying to use my situation for the best. I don't want get stuck living in regret, shame, and defeat.
I come at your situation from the prespective of BTDT, rather than someone who has been a victim of an EA. I may be rather blunt, but I promise you, I pass no judgement. I'd have to pull a rather large log out of my own eye first! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So....

I agree with the other posters. You are indeed involved in an emotional affair. It seems pretty innocent, doesn't it? It's not like it could possibly lead to a physical encounter. There's too much distance between the two of you...

My EA affair started as a random ICQ chat, I was not looking to hook up with anyone. I was married. Not happy about our situation at the time, but had no intention of having an affair. My H was working 16 hour days, and not bringing home a paycheck. It was very stressful. He owned his own business(what $ he made went back into the business). After he closed up every night, he'd stay late and play on his computer until 2AM. I suspect there was more that just an addiction to gaming, but we never did deal with that.
Anyway, I felt justified since my H was neglecting my basic needs. Besides, this was just a 'friend'.
We went to chatting on ICQ almost everyday, and then to occasional phone calls. I tried to keep my H aware of this friend; partly to keep myself from getting into trouble and partly to keep H from getting suspicious. However, the more time I spent online with this man, the deeper I got involved. I was hooked. I became secretive. I started lying. I got my own cell phone. Started deleting all history records and files on the computer. I tried pulling myself out, but kept getting dragged back in. The allure(addiction) was too much for me. I was running on empty and the attention I received from OM kept me going.
Still I felt safe, because of the 2500 miles between us. Well Northwest Airlines solved that issue for us. 3 months into the EA we decided to meet in person. He flew up to see me, and I made some lame arrangements that I was taking a mini vacation alone. (I had done this previously, so it seemed like a good excuse). Thus began the PA. I knew that what I was doing was wrong. I was miserable, I promise. I didn't want to be doing what I was doing, but I couldn't seem to stop. I longed for attention soooo badly...
(I realize that this is getting long, so I'll end it here. There is so much more. It gets worse. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I'm happy to keep sharing if it helps.) Lemme know.

I was terrified to tell anyone because of the shame I felt. That was one of my biggest mistakes. I applaude you for coming here and being brave enough to share your situation.

Secondbest, please for your own good, end you EA now. Don't wait another second. I know it's hard, and it may hurt, but it's the best thing you can do.
You can't change what your H has done, and is still doing. All you can do is become the best W you can be. Follow the MB advice.(I wish this was available to me at the time)
If your H doesn't come around and change his ways, at least you will be able to come out with your head held high, knowing that you did everything to save your marriage.

HTH.