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Oh yes, Queen Victoria started it.Farting was very popular amongst the chattering classes right up to Waterloo.

Vivienne Westwood bought the English fart up to date in 1979 and it became and persists as an urban fashion statement.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


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Thick fog isn't about me though, WAT, Pep, bOb. The guilt he feels is because of the kids, not me.

Although he feels sorry that I haven't been well. He keeps asking about the time I fainted last week.

He is decent guy, pep. It's hard to remember that at the moment. Maybe I should remind myself of it more.

Alph.


Me, BS 37 Him, WXH (Noddy) 40 DD13, DD6 Married 14th August 1993 D/Day 2nd April 05 Noddy left us 3rd April 05, lives with OW (Omelette) 28 Divorce final 6th July '06. Time wounds all heels... - Groucho Marx ...except when it doesn't. - Graycloud
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Alph, same thing. The fog will be about you when he finds out about your exposure....believe me....


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Oh yes, Queen Victoria started it.Farting was very popular amongst the chattering classes right up to Waterloo.

Vivienne Westwood bought the English fart up to date in 1979 and it became and persists as an urban fashion statement.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

ROFL!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Me, BS 37 Him, WXH (Noddy) 40 DD13, DD6 Married 14th August 1993 D/Day 2nd April 05 Noddy left us 3rd April 05, lives with OW (Omelette) 28 Divorce final 6th July '06. Time wounds all heels... - Groucho Marx ...except when it doesn't. - Graycloud
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Don't forget to laugh every day Alph ... must keep your immune system strong and laughter is medicine.

Pep<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

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Only a few very persistent affairs continue long after cohabiting.

You are working the program and WH is conforming to the template right now.

Study, study , study.

I know this is true. I know it's unlikely to last. And I do study. I have learned a lot. I could slap WH right down with my vast (academic) knowledge of A's. But (and it's because he's been round here again tonight, and messed up my head, the evil man) I keep thinking: what if really does prefer the Spanish Omlette to me? What if he's surrounded by infinite fog that he'll never get out of?

Then I guess I'll plan B, plan D, and move on.

I'm not giving up - not close. But when he comes round here and is NICE to me, somehow it makes it worse - like he's really moved on, is sorry for me, but it can't be helped.

Does this make sense?

*rambling...*

Alph.


Me, BS 37 Him, WXH (Noddy) 40 DD13, DD6 Married 14th August 1993 D/Day 2nd April 05 Noddy left us 3rd April 05, lives with OW (Omelette) 28 Divorce final 6th July '06. Time wounds all heels... - Groucho Marx ...except when it doesn't. - Graycloud
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Journal Alph ... startjournaling your thoughts...

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Don't forget to laugh every day Alph ... must keep your immune system strong and laughter is medicine.

Pep<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Things are much, much brighter than they were. Laughter comes easier now.

I was going to kiss WH tonight! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> But I chickened out at the last minute. Feel like a blushing virgin when WH is about. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> I'm not doing my tight little tops justice! Or my expensive new perfume. Kids came lumbering through when I was just about to pucker up! Didn't want them to see...

Oh well.


Me, BS 37 Him, WXH (Noddy) 40 DD13, DD6 Married 14th August 1993 D/Day 2nd April 05 Noddy left us 3rd April 05, lives with OW (Omelette) 28 Divorce final 6th July '06. Time wounds all heels... - Groucho Marx ...except when it doesn't. - Graycloud
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Spanish Omlette

I bet serious farts might be a result.

Since you Brits brought it up, I would have expected British farts being explained as, harumph, just an anal sneeze. What's wrong with that? Harumph, harumph. "We even say "Bless You""

WAT

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Well, really children.

My thread has been turned into a guffing galore party for the lavatorially obsessed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Alph.


Me, BS 37 Him, WXH (Noddy) 40 DD13, DD6 Married 14th August 1993 D/Day 2nd April 05 Noddy left us 3rd April 05, lives with OW (Omelette) 28 Divorce final 6th July '06. Time wounds all heels... - Groucho Marx ...except when it doesn't. - Graycloud
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My FWW also moved out the morning after D-Day 2, five days before Christmas. She told our DS, 11 at the time, we were having “mommy and daddy troubles” and she needed to be by herself for a while. DS took it very hard. He cried for 24 hrs straight.

W was lying through her teeth, of course. She hoped OM would join her. I confronted him the day before Christmas and he very quickly backed down. He claimed my W was nothing important to him and he had told her over and over he would never leave his family for her. (What do these WWs actually hear anyway?) I don’t trust him in the long run, but it helped hearing it at the time.

I left OM with the promise I would tell his W, his children, his co-workers, his other mistress(s) and even his first W (whom he left during an A with current W and for some reason is still very sensitive about how he appears to her) if he ever had the slightest contact with W again. (He did, but that's a different post.)

The point of this post is DS and your DD. DS is very smart. He figured most everything out on his own. He kept asking questions to which my IC said, just tell him it’s adult stuff, it’s not his fault, both of us love him, and he does not need to know. So that’s what I did. I also did not want to make his mom look bad to him.

Guess what? Didn’t work, not even a little. His grades went way down. He dropped out of sports and Scouts. I could see he was depressed. One day he acted out and said he was tired of everyone telling him it was not his business. He wanted to know what was going on. I said I would think about it. I should have told him everything right then but I didn’t.

Several weeks later he announced to me he had it all figured out. He attends a Catholic School. They studied the Ten Commandments that week and he now knew mom committed adultery, did the opposite of covet thy neighbors wife, and bore false witness “all the time.” He even figured out who OM was. That’s when I finally told him the gist of it, with no details.

I immediately started taking him to a child councelor. This guy is great with kids. Think chubby Bill Cosby. Over a year later, DS is finally bringing his grades back up and acting social again.

He still does not trust his mom and maintains quite a bit of emotional distance from her. I believe W has lost the better part of her son. I believe she will never have it back. I still worry about his future realtionships with women.


"Never forget that your pain means nothing to a WS." ~Mulan

"An ethical man knows it is wrong to cheat on his wife. A moral man will not actually do it." ~ Ducky

WS: They are who they are.

When an eel lunges out
And it bites off your snout
Thats a moray ~DS
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Aphelion, thank you.

DD12 is seeing a councellor at her school. She keeps breaking down anyway. I know I have to deal with this. But I feel I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't.

She's always believed in her Daddy 100%. Even now he's gone, she still has the same innocent adoration of him. That will be lost if she knows the truth.

I also worry about how this will affect her relationships with men in the future. If WH does return, and I know this is far from certain, at least she will learn something valuable about forgiveness and healing. If he does not, then he has damaged her chances for a happy relationship in the future, and made it more likely that the same thing will happen to her as did to her mother.

I could swing for him sometimes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Alph.


Me, BS 37 Him, WXH (Noddy) 40 DD13, DD6 Married 14th August 1993 D/Day 2nd April 05 Noddy left us 3rd April 05, lives with OW (Omelette) 28 Divorce final 6th July '06. Time wounds all heels... - Groucho Marx ...except when it doesn't. - Graycloud
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DS's school counselor was totally useless. I went to her first. If the problem wasn't schoolyard related she had no clue. The only thing helpful she did was talk to his teacher. That teacher cut him a little homework slack during his worst times.

I believe in the truth. Graduated and age appropriate but the truth nevertheless. Do not put your children in the position of later doubting you too.

In Private Lies, I think is where, it is stated that some children align themselves with the WS later on. I think that is due to finally figuring out that even the BS didn't tell them the truth when they really wanted it, no matter how awful it was.

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That's very sobering.

You and your wife are recovering, right? How long have you been back together? Is your son happy about it, is he healing too (you say he doesn't really trust your FWW)?

Alph.


Me, BS 37 Him, WXH (Noddy) 40 DD13, DD6 Married 14th August 1993 D/Day 2nd April 05 Noddy left us 3rd April 05, lives with OW (Omelette) 28 Divorce final 6th July '06. Time wounds all heels... - Groucho Marx ...except when it doesn't. - Graycloud
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Well, DD12 and I had talk about her Daddy and OW. I let her ask questions, and answered them truthfully. I told her that I wanted to try to save my marriage to her Daddy. I explained that his A with OW was a wrong relationship, because it is hurting so many people. At the end of the evening, after she had cried so many tears, she asked me : 'How can you stand what he's done, how can you bear the pain?'. Cue big tears from Mom - that she could actually think of me after such a crushing personal disappointment almost broke my heart. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I think this has brought us much closer together.

Alph.


Me, BS 37 Him, WXH (Noddy) 40 DD13, DD6 Married 14th August 1993 D/Day 2nd April 05 Noddy left us 3rd April 05, lives with OW (Omelette) 28 Divorce final 6th July '06. Time wounds all heels... - Groucho Marx ...except when it doesn't. - Graycloud
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{{{{{Alphin & wonderful DD}}}}}

Now imagine how your DD can affect WH now she knows the truth.

That [email]b@stard[/email] helped raise a special girl it seems....


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Thank you bOb - she is a fantastic kid.

OK. Now I am officially in Plan A, I need to know how long I should do it. I would be grateful for any suggestions. From what people know about my sitch, should I plan to go for the full six months? It was pointed out to me yesterday that WH is particularly 'deep in the fog'. I assume it will take him longer than average to get out. Or do I have to wait for some results from exposure to make a decision?

I want to plan this now so that I can make effect Plan B plans if I have to to Plan B. The children and the kind of area I live in will make NC very difficult.

Alph.


Me, BS 37 Him, WXH (Noddy) 40 DD13, DD6 Married 14th August 1993 D/Day 2nd April 05 Noddy left us 3rd April 05, lives with OW (Omelette) 28 Divorce final 6th July '06. Time wounds all heels... - Groucho Marx ...except when it doesn't. - Graycloud
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Alph

Theres no fixed timescale with plan A. Do it until either the A ends or your love tanks run too low and you have to bale out to protect what love you have left for WH. This is typically three or four months for a BW and maybe a few months more for a BH. You will know the time. Believe me.

Regarding the depth of fog, well it takes two to fog up. Squid was WREATHED in utter doe-eyed devotion to OM, but exposure made OM dump her. Spanglish kooze may yet be the one to drop our when her folks or the school apply pressure. The fog doesn't drop before the A ends, the fog only drops ONCE the a has eneded or at least progressed through thrilling to boring or "not worth it".

Plan A is all about YOU ,as MC Fly sing, not your WH.

Its about YOU behaving in a way that means your WH cannot possibly ignore the love he still has for you and teh benefits that being faithful to you means.

Its about YOU behaving in a way that shows WH you HURT, that you have boundaries and that tehre is a price for readmission into yoruheart but that you will do ALL YOU CAN to be non-judgmental, and to rebuild your M if he gives you the chance.

One big thing to realise is that short of locking up your WW, you cannot actually STOP him from continuing the affair BUT the affair is likely to end soon anyway.

If you DID lock him up this would certainly only temporarily halt the affair until you let him go.

Plan A is the most counter-intuitive behaviour on the planet but it has been proven to work in thousands of relationships over the years the Harleys have been counselling.

Look here http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html
for a summary of plan A , then search on this forum for posts by Ark, Worthatry and other wise heads that explain far better than I can about Plan A.

If all this sounds 'not enough' remember it took a while for your M to hit a spot where an affair happened, you will not fix it by Saturday night.

The GOOD news is you can start Plan A'ing right away !

Be calm, and try to choke down the panic and hurt you feel. Then say to your WW something like this I told my FWW :

" I want very much to work on our marriage, as I recognice that although I'm not responsible for your infidelity, I played a part in the state of our marriage.

However before we can work on our marriage, the affair must end and you must never gain have contact with el Tortilla Espanol.

When you see her or contact her you knowingly twist a knife in my heart AND you deliberately prevent work on our M recovery from beginning.

I will not pysically stop you from continuing the affair, because I love you and would not have you SHACKLED to our marriage, but instead staying within by choice. Just know that you are deeply and deliberatly hurting and humiliating someone who loves you very much by staying with and contacting the OW."

Then, whatever his response, hunker down to making your home and your life a welcoming place for him to return to.

STUDY, do not just read the case studies on here. Heres some bullets about plan A that I learned:

* Your instinct as a BS is to be angry, indignant, sad, fearful, reactionary etc and no-one could blame you. However actions supporting these emotions will REINFORCE the fantasy in your WS warped mind that you are a worse bet as a life partner than the OP and that the A was justified.

* You may feel 'better' by venting, doing the vengeance dance etc, but this will almost certainly fatally break your relationship.

* Plan A is a carefully calculated response to the fact of an affair that recognises the strengths and weaknesses of the BS position at this time, and who wants to save their M. It is NOT instinctive, in fact it is counter-intuitive, but it works if adhered to. To use Aislins' analogy :scratching poison ivy rash feels SO GOOD but causes nothing but grief. Instinct does not always help in complex situations.

* FACT a BS cannot directly stop an affair unless they kill or kidnap one or both infidels, and thats not usually recommended by MC

* FACT NEITHER is a BS as helpless as they think they are, and has an armoury of weapons to use. Plan A bundles these for use in a proven strategy.

* Plan A recognises the uncomfortable reality that although the BS is IN NO WAY responsible for the A and that an A is NEVER JUSTIFIED or OK the BS HAS contributed to the marital environment being ripe for an A. This is a major thing to choke down for most BS ( it was for me!) , but its also a major enabler to recovery. Once you know what broke in YOU you can start fixing it.

* Using tools such as exposure the affairs bindings can be exposed to the light. Typically A's only make sense in a by-the-hour highway motel for two hours at a time when only the lying infidels listen to each others fog drivel and 'lets pretend' sex. Exposure to OPs significant other, and carefully targeted family and friends and colleagues forces this shaky, sex-justfying bag of fluff to the scrutiny of the real world. In MOST cases, the bindings disappear like vampires in the sun leaving the infidels 'love affair' looking like the tawdry, cowardly alternative to fixing a flagging marriage that it truly is.
And YES exposing is counter intuitive too, but it WORKS !! see now ?

* So when the A is exposed as a shabby thing, Plan A also makes sure that you, the BS have ALREADY and PROACTIVELY recognised the failings in your behaviour and demeanour that led to the marriage flagging and made a start at fixing them. You have also patently disarmed your WS by not being violent, disrespectful, unforgiving nor any of the other things that they expected and FEARED you would be. In fact you raised your game SIGNIFICANTLY as spouse material and they begin to notice it, really.

* WSs fear that with the death of the A, they have no safe place to go, not the OP and certainly not home to face the judgment and wrath of the BS they have hurt do much....except the BS has done everything possible to provide a place of calm safety for the WS to return to. My own FWW thought it was a trick! She couldn't believe the loving and non-hudgmental "nest" I'd made for her when she felt she deserved it so little...through Plan A I'm a better Dad than I've been in years, a better listener and more thoughtful of my FWWs needs. Plus MUCH slimmer, fitter and more buff ( GgrrrrOOOWWWLLLLL ! )

* SOME A's bindings are stronger than others and SOME WSs find it harder than others to return home, so plan A may not always work at killing the A and providing a sanctuary for the WS to recover in. Thats when plan B kicks in. Plan B REMOVES the sanctuary , love , forgiveness and support so carefully built and demonstrated in PLAN A from the WS. You do a good plan A and you will be REALLY missed, while OM looks everyday more like the unreliable, lying betrayers they always are.

* See how it works ? By choosing to lay down your righteous indignation in plan A you are in NO WAY a doormat any more than spying for the Allies made brave intelligence folks in WW2 Nazis. You are bravely and deliberately overruling your primal instinct in support of the marriage God gave you and you gave to God and each other.

* STUDY(not just read) SAA, HN/HN , this site, the old heads stories and become aware of the dynamics of affairs. Deconstruct your own situation and apply the principles to it. Knowledge is power. Understand that affairs are JUST LIKE medical conditions, the symptoms, prognosis and cure are all utterly predictable in most cases. Your sitch feels unique BUT IT AIN'T ! THIS STUFF HAS WORKED FOR THOUSANDS OF COUPLES IN EXACTLY YOUR SITCH !

* Finally I have said before that Plan A is a heroes gig and I still think so. For a 'silverback' like me the easy way is to go crashing around hitting people , suing people and making lives bad. Instinct isn't bravery.

Bravery is doing what is needed, however uncomfortable, frightening and counter-instuitive to rebuild a stable loving platform for all involved in the mess of an affair.

Even if Plan A and Plan B doesn't recover your M , it will leave you a much more "examined" person able to move on in life and not repeat the errors that contributed to the problems in the M.


I hope I have helped explain my take on Plan A. And to close, Plan A has worked UP THE WAZOO for us so far so I'm not talking theory.

Concentrate on Plan A for now, as you become adept at it, start to study works by mortarman and other plan B Czars.

See ? I bet you wish you hadn't asked now ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


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Gosh bOb!

The reason I mentioned the timescale was because that was what SAA recommended - a pre-planned timescale so that you have a defined road ahead of you and also time to plan your Plan B if necessary.

Hard to imagine you as the stereotype 'silverback', knuckles dragging on the ground, teasing out fleas etc. Gorillas are actually very gentle creatures - vegetarian and highly social. Is that what you meant? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

A friend has suggested that, once DD12 has had a chance to absorb the new information about her Daddy, that she perhaps write him a letter to explain how she feels. I think this would be good therapy for her, even if she never gives him the letter. She is such a bright, sunny kid who always smiles when she is around people - doesn't show her feelings much even when her heart is breaking.

Alph.


Me, BS 37 Him, WXH (Noddy) 40 DD13, DD6 Married 14th August 1993 D/Day 2nd April 05 Noddy left us 3rd April 05, lives with OW (Omelette) 28 Divorce final 6th July '06. Time wounds all heels... - Groucho Marx ...except when it doesn't. - Graycloud
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Alph

I can;t interpret for Dr Harley of course but I have seen SO MANY partly effected plan A's drag on and on until the BS becomes a neurotic doormat and has no love left at all for the WS.

As Harley says 3 months for women and 6 months for men is typical. I was advised to set milestones when I would review my sit with my counsellor, wise friends on here and my own expectations to see if plan B needs to be considered soon.

I never understood how a BS is supposed to know how long to plan A for when they don't know the response from WS and OP.

In my own case if I had quit plan A too soon, I'd've missed the chance to expose with proof ( second exposure).

I set myself a target that if the A wasn't ended by the end of the year ( 5 months) I would plan B, but that I would review the status on these boards every month or so.

As it is , the first few months were so spiteful I wanted to plan B right away, but I hung in there, got better at plan A and changes came around quickly when I exposed with proof.

So Alph, do as Harley suggests but don't get hung up on lines in the sand.

His guidelines say that if Plan A hasn't helped end the affair after 3-6 months its not going to so plan B is required.

But know a good plan A is a wonderful precedent to a plan B.
The letter to WH from your DD will be wonderfulk therapy and will surely appeal to whatever is left of your WHs heart.

re "Silverback" it was a nickname of mine as a youth. I played open side flanker and was not a gentle player on the field or off it. I'm also fairly hirsute and, well big and broad. Now I am also greying abit it seems appropriate ! LOL !

All my 'new man' cack came as a result of my infidelity experience. Hitting people wouldn't get my baby back, so I learned a new way. Simple as that.

One reason why MB methods are so uninstinctive.


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