Like I've said I don't KNOW that this is going to work out.

I know I need to stop with all the OM's and chatting and i am working on that. I need to tell bass what bothers me when it comes up. I'm still working on clearing my head.

-win

Win-

So there is nothing else that you feel that you need to work on to either improve yourself, or to give your M a chance to work out?

This is a universal weakness of ALL of us Win.

No kidding!

We all learn how to do this over time ... with effort and understanding ourselves, and learning from our mistakes.

It's not a matter of just telling our spouse what bugs us, but developing a non-love-busting ~way~ to express this. Quite a good skill to have in your pocket, doncha think?

I recently discovered something ... I do not need to express every irksome thing I feel toward Mr. Pep ... I pick and choose the important ones ... and I work HARD to find a way to express things in a way that do not diminish my respect for him.

This is a continual learning process for all of us Win. Not just you.

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Owl,
I guess Bass would have to answer that question. As far as I know thats what he wanted me to do was, stop chatting, forget OM, and let him know when things bother me. Bass is very sensitive and part of our problem has always been whenever I bring up anything that is bothering me, he gets defensive and/or pouts. So I would avoid the confrontation because I didn't want to deal with his moods. And he never really wanted to change the problem, until he thought I was leaving him for someone else.

Win...thanks for asking. ;-)

First of all, in terms of stopping the chatting and telling me when I bug you, you are doing a great job lately. I'm trying to not be sensitive or defensive, so I hope you feel more comfortable with bringing stuff up. I'm just trying really hard to let you know your opinions matter to me and I want this relationship to be a place where you feel happy, wanted, and listened to! And not taken for granted.

Other than that, the only request I would have is that you stay in NC and continue to work on your withdrawal. You can talk to me about how you are doing without fear that I'm going to freak out. I know it's still a very hard time for you and I want to be part of your support team. I admire the fact that you have co-workers, friends, and family to turn to, and I'd like to come back into your "circle of trust" again when it comes to your feelings. Intimacy, in other words, I guess. But that has to come at your own speed, so there's no rush on it.

Well, I hope things are going well for the both of you. I really do hope that you're both talking with each other and helping each other to figure out HOW to do the things that you need them to do as well. That was key in our recovery...she had to help me know what the changes she wanted to see looked like...let me know when I was successful in making those changes. And I provided similar POSITIVE feedback to her as well.

Thanks for the help, everyone. Win worked up the courage this morning to tell me it's over.

I'll be in the divorce forum, I guess.

WS's and BS's, learn from us. Look at your kids, look at your spouse, and decide if you want to end up broken like we are, or if you want to put it back together and stay true to the promises and commitments you've made. If you decide to keep them, then throw away those other men and women, and concentrate on your families. They are what's most important.

Best of luck to everyone.

Saying and doing are 2 different things.

Has she filed?

pep

Bass, I'm sorry to hear that ya'll have given up. I wish you both the best of luck, and will pray for you both and your family.

"I just don't think it's going to work out". What more needs to be said, or done, or filed for that matter, after that? Nothing left but the paperwork.

The paperwork is a BIG DEAL.

Just sit with this for now and manage your own anxiety ... and see if she actually follows through.

If YOU don't want a divorce, make sure she does all the leg work for a divorce herownself.

With all your years of marriage, and the kids, this is not a simple matter. This is a complicated divorce. No quickie.

Sit tight. Plan A. Watch for an opening to fill her needs ... and do not help with the paperwork.

Keep your cool.
And stay away from internet gaming. You need to do that no matter what.

Pep

Yeah, whatever, maybe. I don't know what I'm going to do. The possibilities are endless, and none of them appeals to me. I see a week, or a month, or even a year of black depression in front of me. This hurts much more than I thought it would. It sucks to be a failure.

Bass-

I'm no pro here, but we KNOW Win is still in withdrawal. I wouldn't count it as hopeless just yet. Her EA is inevitably over (if not by her choice, by OM's choice). Whether she is with you at your home or somewhere else she will be going withdrawal. That WILL clear at some point and she will come out of the fog. Just as we have been telling her all along, at that point she can objectively look at the M.

Pep has good advice.

I think the real source of all of the stress right now is the fact that Win has NOT stuck with no contact up to this point. It may have begun this week, but she's had intermittent contact since, so her withdrawl is no where near worked through. So at this point, she's mentally checked out of your marriage for the moment.

But all of us have tried and tried to get her to understand that she's not ready to make any kind of real decision until she gets through this part...but I really don't feel like she's believed any of us yet.

Bass...personally I wouldn't make any decision to do anything just now. If she wants to end the M, then she can undertake the effort to do so. And my thought is once she starts turning her focus to working on something like that, it's going to cause her to start thinking and help her come out of the fog. I know that something similar took place with my wife.

Win- I hope that you can stop worrying about whether or not you CAN make it long enough to actually get to a point where you can give yourself a chance TO make it.

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm not going to do anything rash. There's too many issues to be worked out for me to just walk away...much as I want to, right this minute.

Cards, there is truth to what you say, but I don't have a lot of hope Win would come back even if she clears her head. She was unhappy before the EA, so...

Never underestimate the attraction of your shared history ...

Have faith in yourself a bit more Bass.

Chin up man!

Pep

So what's the status guys?

99.9% divorced. I don't want it, Win does. So she wins.

I'm still trying, but it feels pretty hopeless at this point. I don't understand it, because she says that she doesn't hate me, but she's dead set against even trying anymore. I don't think there's another OM, but who knows.

She will allow that we've both done a poor job with Plan A so far, and she will even admit that I just learned what her main complaints with me are about two months ago, but she pretty much refuses to give us a chance to work on things. She also refuses to believe that she might still be in withdrawal. She has just completely closed up, and there's no getting in. Our biggest challenge is re-establishing intimacy, and there's no hope of that with her being as closed off and guarded as she is. It's already hard enough for me to work on intimacy, and it's impossible if it's a one-way street.

Not giving up hope yet, but I can see where this will wear me down eventually. We are staying together until after the family vacation to Pismo Beach in July, then who knows. It makes me sad, but she doesn't think she can be happy here and she can't let go of the resentment she feels towards me for the things I've done. It sucks, but there's nothing I can do about it. She has set things up well for herself, so any attempt I make at keeping the family together is simply me being selfish and trying to talk her out of her feelings. I don't want to keep her in a prison, so I will have to just let go if she insists upon it.

As for me, major anxiety off and on since she told me Friday morning she is done. My insomnia, which had been in remission since I started working out, came back in a big way Saturday night and I was up until 4 am. Had another fit of it this morning, ugh. Father's Day was nice due to the efforts of my kids, but she did pretty much nothing for me (other than buy me a DVD). My kids almost put tears in my eyes when they each called me "the greatest dad ever" in their handwritten cards. Yeah, if I was so great, I would have paid more attention to my marriage and you both wouldn't be doomed to watching your parents split up without any warning.

I have maintained NC. I'm still here. Whatever, I'm weary.

Win-

If you haven't taken the hint I've tried dropping throughout the course of this thread, let me be blunt. You have more to do in order for ANY chance of your family staying together than just NC. A lot more. I've repeatedly tried drawing you out to get to think about what all your part is in the re-building/recovery process, but the ONLY thing you seem to feel you have to do is NC. There are any number of things that you could/should be doing, but until you reach the point where you'll take the time to look for them yourself, anything suggestions made here will be pointless.

I personally can't blame Bass for giving up at this point. Because I know that there is no way I could have continued my efforts to rebuild MY marriage without some kind of connection of some kind with my wife. If she had acted like just doing NC was the only thing that she had to do to recover, we would have failed miserably.

Win, I don't know if you're in withdrawl, fog, or what, but while you may not care what happens in your M right now, you should start recognize from all the other threads on this board by now that you WILL later. And you may find yourself regretting your decisions made now.

Done talking. Good luck.