So.. I will try to keep this brief. First of all let me thank the people of this board for giving me a light in the dark. Reading your stories has given me hope when I thought all was lost.

My wife and I have been married for just under 5 years. We have two incredibly beautiful children ages 3 and 5. About 3 weeks ago, I got a phone call from one of her friends saying that she was having an affair. At first, I didn't believe her, I told her she was crazy, I know my wife, and she would never do that. She called back with some evidence, I called my wife, and she admitted where she was. I don't have to explain to you all how this felt. It was the worst day I have ever had.

My gut reaction was to tell her not to ever come home. But a strange (at least I thought so) thing happened. After a few days I started remembering how much I really love her. I also saw the part I played in all of this. While it doesn't excuse what she did, I do share the blame for making our marriage an unhappy place for her to be.

I wish I would have found this site a year ago. I could have stopped this from happening. She has been telling me in subtle (sometimes not so subtle) ways that she did not feel I thought she was special, and I dismissed it. She would ask me why I love her, and I would have a hard time answering. I knew I loved her, but couldn't give a reason.

About 6 months ago, she got drunk at my best friends house and he basically raped her. She has blamed herself because she went to far with the flirting and kissing. Her and him always were flirty, and I always kind of thought of it as a joke. I trusted her enough to feel comfortable with it. That night, she did her normal flirty thing and before and could not stop him. The way she described it, he took down her pants and held her ankles together so she couldn't move and had his way with her for about a minute and a half. He convinced her that it was her fault for coming on to him. Believe me, this guy could convince you of anything. Anyway, they decided not to tell me about it, consider it a drunk mistake, and forget about it. But I know she didn't.

She kind of shut down after that happened. She is a stay-at-home Mom. She stopped cleaning, started drinking more, and started sleeping well past noon. Later if I was there. We had no sex life after that, unless she was drunk, and she seemed like she hated it.

I thought I was making her unhappy, but rather than try to make her happy, I resented her for it. My best friend and her barely spoke to each other, but me and him grew much closer. We even took a road trip together last month. I did start to notice that he was trying to drive a wedge between me and my wife. I was going to say something to him about it very soon.

A couple of months ago, she started developing a friendship with a friend of my best-friend. Since she didn't like my friend anymore, it was easy to let her spend time with him while I spent time with my friend. He had been through a divorce a year-and-a-half ago. She talked constantly about setting him up with someone. I let them spend too much time together. It was kind of a relief not to have her around being crappy to me.

Well, you all know the rest of the story. She fell for him, and three or four nights, she told me she was going over to her girl-friend's house to help her. Her friend just left her physically abusive husband, so I thought nothing of it. Well it turns out she was in a hotel with the OM. I was shattered, and wanted her to never talk to me again. I questioned whether or not I ever loved her.

Then something happened. I wanted to be with her like never before. We both gave up a lot to provide for the kids. We gave up on some dreams we should have. I thought we could make this work. So, I told her that I wanted to stay together and that we could overcome all of this. We could use this opportunity to build something better than before. But she said she was not sure. That hurt almost more than the A. She wants to take this time to be a "better person".

Any time I would critisize her (before I found out about plan A), she would say "I'm a horrible person." She is angry that this is what it took for me to wake up. She feels sorry for hurting me. But she's not sure if she can love me anymore.

She wants to go get a job, her own car, an apartment, and then decide if she wants to be with me. I took my best-friend's bad advice and told her she needed to decide right now if she wanted to be with me or I was leaving. She basically said, "If you want an answer right now, the answer is no." The next day when I came back home to apologize for giving her an ultimatum is when she told me about the incident with my best-friend. Afraid the truth would come out, he told his girlfriend and she called my wife all pissed off. It made me see more clearly how things got so bad, and made me want to work harder.

She continues to talk to the OM. She will talk to him right in front of me like I am not there. I asked her not to spend so much time talking to him until she can decide about me. She told me that she had only talked to him a few times since, but I know that is not true (through snooping), and yesterday she took the kids up to the park to play with his kid and him. She asked me if that was OK. I told her that I didn't want it to happen, but that I would not try to stop her. Is this how plan A works? I feel stepped on. We have had some really good talks, sometimes all night. Remembering good times, me telling her about my renewed love for her. Sometimes it seems that everything is clicking into place and she will be back in my arms right then. But the next day it all seems to go away. She sleeps all day and wakes up to go to work (she works three nights a week as a waitress, a job she hates). I don't know what to do....

Hi Don't Know,

Sorry to hear you are going through this. I know its terrible. I'm not a Plan A expert so I'll leave that up to others but I do know that Plan A does not mean being a doormat.

You have to be the one to lookout for your kids. WW is in an alien land and will only look out for herself and her own selfish needs. Do you think having the kids around OM is good for them? How did they react to this? What have they been told?

Hang in there. We've all been there. You'll get through this.

Miker

Okay, begin by getting and reading the following two books;

Torn Asunder, by Dave Carder, and

Surviving An Affair, By Dr. Willard Harley

Your wife is going to also need counseling for the rape. In addition, formal criminal charges need to be considered.

This "best friend" of yours is anything but a friend. Sorry. But he needs to "Go" right now. First he rapes your wife, then covers it up, then tries to get you to leave your wife.....with friends like him I'm not surprised your wife questions your ability to "love and protect" her.

You listen to you friend's "advice" and give your wife an "ultimatum???" Very bright.

From now on, you restrict your receiving of advice to a trained Marriage Counselor who is committed to saving marriages, and/or THIS Marriage Builders website exclusively.

You have a tough, long, road ahead of you. There are no "guarantees" that your marriage can be saved. But there have been a LOT of success stories, so the question for you is "are you committed to the long haul, to taking as much time as is necessary?"

That's enough for starters. Response?

Hiya DontKnow. I feel kind of privaleged to be the first to add to your thread. My own d-day is only five weeks old and I only discovered this website about a week ago. I feel I was lucky to do so and I hope you will find the comfort and hope here that I have.

My own WS won't discuss any of the huge, monstrous issues her affair has raised with me and I think I might have broken if I had not found this place. I have posts in the Pregnancy and Just Found Out threads but more than one person has advised me that this thread is a good place to be.

I read this site (not just the forums) when I wake up crying in the middle of the night or whenever I can't stand to do anything but just sit and brood. Sometimes even this is unbearable as I see reflections of the pain I am feeling in the posts of others.

I am a big, strong, retired Law Enforcement officer. I have been stabbed, beaten and had my heart broken by lovers more than once. Nothing in my life prepared me for the pain that my wife's revelation of her affair brought. I dunno if it will be the same for you but it helps me some to see that I am NOT alone or unique and that complete strangers will offer me their support and wisdom. I want so very much to get my wife and life back and I find some hope for that in these pages.

I am a basket case right now and the only advice I can give you is to read every damn thing you can on this website, not just the forums. There is wisdom and hope to be had here. I know your pain and I wish you well. God help us both.

Miker-
No, not at all. They do not know what is going on, but they are really good friends with his daughter and have been asking about her a lot. I told her I did not want it to happen, but that I wouldn't stop her.

ForeverHers -
I agree. The problem is, I am the one who called it rape. If she will not accuse him of it, I can't do anything about it legally, right? I also have to wonder if she is telling the truth. I am definitely leaning toward believing her. I could see him doing this, now.

He is most definitely gone. I haven't spoken to him since right after I found out about his part in this. At first she did not describe the detail of what happened, so I just told him I didn't want to talk to him until I sorted this out. Now that I know how it happened, I don't know what to say to him. Violence comes to mind. Not that I would do anything violent.

This was during the direct aftermath of the affair, and before I knew about his part, and before I found this board. Never again.

CampDog -
It's really the only thing that keeps me going.

I know what you mean by brooding. She says she wants to be alone, and leaves to go to a friends for a few hours. I remain positive, tell her go ahead and try to act happy. Then I start thinking... "What if she is with him?" So I call her. No answer. I call her again. No answer. (repeat 8 times). The phone was in the van charging. I knew it was just about dead. I feel like it unravels any of the positive things I do. I really need to find something constructive to do while she is not there.

DontKnowMuch, I really feel for you. It is difficult. In response to your question on my thread, I really do not know I have dealt with it for almost a year. You can really do amazing things where your children are involved. I do have one advantage and that is my WW is not doing anything now. I do not know anything for certain but all of her time is accounted for and she lets our daughter use her cellphone for texting friends so I know that no one is calling her on that. What she is still doing her and why she is doing nothing is the real mystery. She obviously has no interest in working on the M.

I know the thoughts that are going through your mind. The horror that men feel when thinking about another man having sex with their wife. Wondering about whether this was her first A or if this has been a regular part of her whole life. Wondering if there is really any reason to try and work things out.

I know that I would have a real problem with my best friend raping my wife. I would get to the bottom of that situation real fast. I just doesn't add up that she would just let him forcibly rape her but then do nothing about it. I think that I would get his version to make sure it was not consensual. If he says it was then one person is lying and I would get them together and get to the bottom of it. If it turns out that my best friend raped my wife then he would be getting a visit soon from several masked guys with baseball bats. If my wife lied then it gives you more info on what to do.

As to the current OM, I would not put up with that for one second. I wholeheartedly agree with the ultimatum that you gave. DO NOT leave your house. If she is going to see the OM, then change the locks and throw her stuff out in the front yard or sent to a storage unit if you are more civilized than I am. Get an attorney immediately if she says that she will keep seeing him. DO NOT sit back and play the poor victim.

As to getting anything from your WW, do not expect anything. She feels that she was justified in what she did because of something that you did or did not do. If you have not cheated on her or abused her in some manner then there is nothing that you could have done to cause an A. You might have caused a D but not an A and do not forget that.

Get strong and take your life back. I did not do that for six months and I regret every day that I sat back and played the victim. I wish you the best.

First I would find out all you could about the other man. Any spouse or GF, where he works , his past etc. Determine if he has any weaknesses and how much of a real threat he is. How exposure would effect him and his work. Right now you are at your strongest position, your wife doesn't work and she has been caught cheating and exposing the affair person to your children. Get a lawyer. Don't wait till she gets a job so its easier to leave. She sounds like just plan "A"ing may not be enough...a reality check may be your only hope.

bobsmiley, thank You for your words. I hope I can have the stregth to listen to them.

Honestly, it is not the sexual part of the A the bothers me most. I found something she had written last week that talked about her imagining a life with him. It was the stuff about her watching him mow the grass, and folding all of his socks, and stopping smoking for him. That's what really got to me. I confronted her with it. She said she wrote it a while back to "get it out of her head" and forgot about it. Then she ripped it up, threw it in the trash, and said she should have done that when she wrote it. It kills me to know that she fell for him, not the she slept with him. Also the fact that he is not attractive, and has no real substance as a person. She even said that to me the other day. She said I was bigger, better-looking, smarter, and will make more money than he eveer will. I said, "Yeah but he got to have sex with my wife lately and I didn't".

Believe me, getting to the bottom of the situation with my ex-best-friend is a number one priority. And i DO have a HUGE problem with it. I wouldn't call it forcible. She did kiss him and she never said no. She told him to go in the other room and take care of it himself, but she said that she was frozen after he pulled her down. I have tried to get her to admit that it was rape, but she is still blaming herself. I don't. I'm afraid of what I would do to my friend if I saw him again. Maybe I should call.

As far as the OM goes. I want to tell her to never see him again, but I thought this had to be her decision. Should I be making demands like that now? I don't want her to run off before I have a chance to prove that things could be better.

Basically, I act as happy as I can while she is around. We do things together (with the kids). She said "I don't want you to be pretending things are normal, I have not decided to stay." I said, "Things are very far from normal, but it does no good for me to be sad all of the time". But she has gone from wanting to just leave to being willing to at least give it a little longer. She needs "alone time". I suggested she go to her Dad's house 3 hours away for a weekend. She said that she would see if she could get off work next weekend to do that, and that she would take at least one of the kids with her. We will see.

I know him well. Or at least I thought I did. That's why I let them spend so much time together. He was at our house all of the time, and even went to an amusement park with me and the kids and his kid the day after the A started. His wife left him a year and half ago. He has a daughter our daughter's age. He works at a crappy job, lives in a trailer (no offense to trailer people, but I see it as a negative), and has no real friends. I don't know who I could expose him to.

Should I call him? I have though about calling him and telling him that I am going to fight for her. I know she told him of our problems. I imagine that he smelled blood in the water. I think he might have the impression that I don't want to be with her any more. But she also said that he cried because he felt bad about doing this to me. (that kind of pissed her off).

I wonder if pressure from me would make him go away. I could remind him that he is putting me through the same thing that he went through, and that it needs to end now. I am going to save my family. What do you all think?

DKM, one thing that you said is very interesting. You stated that the OM is not attractive, has no money and seems to be a loser in general. This is interesting because the OM in my case is almost the same thing.

No one is going to mistake me for Brad Pitt but the OM in my case is ugly. He is 46 with a receding hairline, glasses and very pudgy. He works as a clerk in a convenience store and is completely in debt. He is divorced and his children refuse to see him. All things that I have been able to find out through investigation.

Even worse, the ex-husband of my WW's former best friend blew the whistle on my WW. I had tried to tell him things about our WW's but he blew up at me and told me to never come back to his house. He called to apologize after a year and told me that he caught his WW in an A and told me I was the only person who ever told him the truth. He then told on my WW because he thought she had a hand in his problems.

The thing about his situation is that he was 41 and his WW was 39. He caught her with an unemployed 26 year old who had a lip ring and numerous tatoos. He lived in an abandoned warehouse where they had many love roundevouses and got caught on tape.

It seems like a recurring theme that the OM is never a rich handsome jetsetter that you would fear losing your W to. It is always some broke loser. Why is that?

I don't know why. She was always kind of attracted to weird looking guys. She is VERY attractive physically. And I know I'm the hottest guy she's ever been with. It's almost like it was easier to be with the ugly guys because they were easier or something.

She even said that she feels like she had to try really hard to impress me because she doesn't think she is as smart as me. I dissagree, I may be book smart, but the common sense is definitely lacking. And I was impressed with her already, although I did not convey that very well.

*** NEW DEVELOPMENT ***
I don't want to get my hopes up. I think she may have started down a path theat might lead to at least giving me a chance.

She has been complaining that she hates being at our house. She didn't stay at home last night. She stayed at a hotel. I let her go knowing that there would be no contact with OM. I have become quite a detective. She said "just give me today". I said OK and let her go. She came home this morning before I went to work and actually came with me to take my daughter to school (for the first time).

I felt like there was something she really wanted to say to me, but I didn't force anything. She talked about how much fun we had when we were teenagers, and how we were best friends. How I was still her best friends. I said "Yeah, we had some good times". And left it at that. I had to get to work, so I told my son "I love you" and told her "Good bye". She said "I like you". I said "I like you too." She said "I'm sorry everthing is all messed up right now." I said "Me too, but it will all work out somehow." Then I left. For some reason this exchange seemed encouraging.

I think she might have actually used the time in the hotel to think about US. And what she needs to do about it. I don't think she has really spent any time doing this yet. We will see.

DKM, I hope it is a change for the better but your post struck a chord in my memory that I wanted to tell you about. When my WW and I were in the same situation as you, she surpprised me by wanting us to take the kids out to luch at a nice restaurant. This surprised me because she was giving me the responses that your W is giving you. We had a very nice lunch and I thought that things might be improving just out of the blue.

However, later that day, she approached me and told me that she wanted me to move out to give her time to think. She also handed me a typed list of the money she needed to pay the bills and take care of the kids. I hope that yours is a better situation but this sounded eerily like what happened to me. Good Luck

bob- It's funny you say that, she has wanted to move out for "time to think" and "work on herself" since d-day. She fortunately doesn't have the means to do so. It gives me an opportunity to work on convincing her that things CAN work.

I am starting to get plan A down. I will be buying Surviving the Affair tommorrow.

I hope you are wrong about the reaction she was giving me this morning, but if you are right, it is not really anything new.

Thank you for the consideration.

I contacted my ex-best-friend last night. I told him I wanted to know what his impression of what happened that night was. I really did believe my wife about this one, I just wanted to see if he would admit it.

He basically confirmed everything that she said. He said that he was drunk, agressive, and was pushed away several times, and that he takes full responsibilty for what happened. I told him that it took some guts to finally tell me the truth and that I hold him responsible for what happened. He apologized for not telling me and for lying for 7 months.

Then he asked me what I am going to do about it. I told him that I didn't know yet. I told him he didn't have to worry about violence or sabotage. While it is what I feel, I am not out for revenge. He said he has stopped drinking and is working on becoming a better person. I said that that was good, and that if it was true I might talk to him again sometime. What should I do about it?

DKM, it took real guts to do what you did and I applaud you. I know that you were rewarded with the piece of mind that it was not COMPLETELY consensual. You are right that your WW should not have given in but she did resist several times. Also, you know that the event was not because she had strong feelings for him. I think he is telling the truth because he could have easily put it off on her to save his skin but did not.

As to any contact with him in the future, I would not. If you believe his story then I would accept his apology and forgive him. However, I do not go up and pet a dog that has bitten me before. I think that you can find much better friends to surround yourself with and share your life with. Anybody that has an alcohol problem and that would have sex with your wife is not a good bet. Just my thoughts.

Hello,

This man admitted raping your wife which has lead to your wife engaging in a self-destructive mode and destroying your marriage. I would contact the police. He raped your wife and he gets to walk away talking about becoming a better person? He raped your wife!

What would contacting the police accomplish? I have no evidence, and my wife will not call it rape. I am calling it that and I was not there, while it was not exactly consensual, it would be hard to prove as rape. My wife needs counseling. I will help her do this if she allows it.

While it would be easy to blame the destruction of my marriage on that one event, it is a combination of many different factors that go way before this event, some of which I was responsible for. I was not responsible for her falling in love with someone else. But I share the blame for making our marriage an unhappy place to be.

I want to save my family. That is what my focus is right now, and it is taking all I can give. I am doing the work now while she is in "the fog". She will do the work if and when she comes out of it. That is the time to deal with the other issue.

DKM, I agree that the best friend is a closed issue now. I know that you will get some better friends. Just focus on the current OM, exposing the A to everyone and deciding if the M is worth saving. Good Luck

DKM,

I have a lot to say and you may not like some of them, but as I wish you the best, I will share my thoughts anyway.

1. You must give up that friend. He is not your friend. You must show your wife that you have some backbone. At some point, you will have to forgive him, but that is for another day.

2. Learn everything you can on this site and make a plan. Do not read passively, but do so actively, taking notes, so you can make a plan. That way, you will not be merely reacting but acting in light of your overall plan.

3. Your inclinations and intuitions are not to be trusted right now. Many of the advices that will be given here will be counter-intuitive, but if you want to save your marriage and/or protect yourself, you'd be wised to follow them.

4. You cannot trust your wife right now. It is true that she seemed to have been raped, but by being in the throng of an A, she is not reliable at all right now. Even though you want to be believe otherwise, you are not that important to her right now. Believing that no contact with OM occurred while she was in the Hotel, for example, suggests to me that you are in the BS Wanting-To-Believe-WS-At-All-Cost fog. You need to snap out of it.

She may and will give lips service to caring for you, but she does not at this moment. She can't. The most important thing for her right now are the fixes she gets from the OM and her dreams of a future life with him. So the points here are
(a) She is not to be trusted with your's or the children's best interests right now, and
(b) she only really cares about the OM and their R at this time.

5. Ge a backbone. Do not be a doormat, which is what you are being right now. In the name of saving your M, you are letting her walk all over you. Even though you feel that by agreeing with her on everything you are saving your marriage, the truth is your actions are more likely to lead to the dissolution of your marriage, and at the very least, to the destruction of your self-esteem and happiness.

Do not LB, but do not be a doormat either. It is a fine line, I know, but it must done. In short, plan A while setting up your boundaries.

7. I must repeat this again, do not just react, make a plan. Do not make excuses for why you can't do things, find a way. Your life and that of your children are at stake. Be a hero to them, even if you really feel afraid inside. Fear is to be expected, but you must act in spite of it for the stakes are very high here: your life and your children's future.

Now from Attitudes and Beliefs to specific Actions. Your actions will be geared towards two goals. One is to save the marriage, the second to protect yourself. These two goals are usually consistent with each other.

6. Plan A

7. Get a PI to document the affair for possible future references. They may deny it later if you go to court, and even if they don't a judge would be more incline to rule your way if there are pictures or written documents to back your claims of an A.

Note, although what you really want is to save the marriage, it is not clear that will end up being the case. It takes two to make a marriage work. Although you hope for the best, you have to prepare for the worst. As Mortarman says, this is war, and you have to approach it as such.

Further, do not make excuses for not getting a PI. The costs of a divorce and/or lost of costudy of your children, monetarily or otherwise, will be far far greater than getting a PI right now.

8. Expose. Find if OM has a significant other. Expose to WW's family and some close friends.

9. Get a lawyer ASAP and draw a battle plan.

10. Read Gramm, Foundareason, and Alphin's sitches for ideas.

11. Calling on Mortarman, BobPure, Melody, Gimble, AM Martin, WAT, and others for your wisdom to help DKM.

You are in my prayers.