I caught my wife at the OM's house last Saturday. It turns out that she had been having an A for about 6 months. I knew back in January that she had been spending lots of time talking to someone on her cell phone. I googled the numbers and came up with his name. I confronted her and she said that it was not physical and that he was someone that she just "talked to". She promised to end it. She did not. I found out about more calls in February and March and confronted her again. Again she promised to end it. I found still more calls in April in May but did not confront her, hoping that the reduced frequency of calls was a sign that it was winding down...

Then, last Saturday she left in the morning for a work-related event and when she did not return home within a couple of hours of the expected time and my efforts to reach her failed, I just knew. I got in my car and drove to the OM's house (she did not know that I knew where he lived). I cried all the way there; somehow knowing what I would find. Her car was in the driveway. I walked to the front door and knocked. A few minutes later they both came down the hallway and she opened the door. I looked into her eyes, turned and walked away. She came after me, begging me not to go. The resulting confrontation, heard by the neighbors for blocks I'm sure, was raw emotion. She blocked me from leaving, begging me to understand how she had struggled with the A and how they were trying to end it as both of their families would be hurt (the OM is not married.) She offered to go to her parents and tell them about everything as a sign of repentance and to show me that it was over. I relented and we drove to her parents house; me crying the entire way.

Her parents were not home but we took the opportunity of being alone to talk, and cry and try to figure it out. She says it's over, that it was not worth it, that she is sorry for the pain that she has caused, that she does not want to lose her family (we have two children) and that she loves me. She said that she was, in a strange way, relieved that she had been caught. That it forced her to terminate the A. I agreed to let her come back home and she was very attentive and very remorseful. She says that she knows that I do not trust her now and that she has to earn that trust back; she hates it, but she knows it must be done. She tells me that she is committed to making this work and hopes that we will be together looking back on this in 10 years. We had sex the next night and it was the most passionate experience that we have had in years. Was that a mistake? We both just felt it. She talked of rediscovering each other and making it all about the two of us.

She is clearly in withdrawal (I came home to find she had been crying last night, thinking about the OM I suspect). I am trying to cope with aftershocks as things sink in to my brain. Tomorrow is our wedding anniversary. She asked that we truly celebrate the day (it is often a low-key event) and I agreed that it could be a milestone, a new beginning for our relationship. Our kids will be with my in-laws and we will stay at a hotel tomorrow night. There will be dinner, wine, candles... should be quite romantic. Too soon?

I want desperately to make this work. I want to restore the faith and trust that I had in my wife. How do I support her in her withdrawl? How do I get the images of her and the OM out of my head? How do I begin to trust her again? How do I know that she means it when she says she is committed? Is it too late? How do I not make it so difficult for her that she gives up? What if she goes back to him? So many questions...

Fool4Love

Hello,

I am very sorry for your pain. The first thing you should have done is make her take a test for STD's. I assume she was probably not using protection. I would continually monitor her. Do not trust her at all at this point. You caught her red handed. Apparently she was a cake woman who enjoyed being married to you but continued to lie to you and have sex with her lover for the past 6 months. My guess is that when she was caught she was scared to death that her cozy life with you was going to be destroyed. A quick night of passion does not solve anything. My friend she was able to lie to you continuously after you kept catching her. She knew you were hurting but continued the affair anyway. You must both get into counseling immediately. My guess is that when the coast is clear she may start up down the road again. You must insist on boundaries and make it clear that the next time is a divorce. No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change. Keep your guard up. Make sure she does apologize to the parents.
It seems you were far to forgiving to quickly. I am fearful that the message you gave her was if she can have sex with you then all is forgiven very quickly. Do you think her attitude would have been the same if the roles had been reversed?
Did she tell you why she was willing to put your health at risk and make a mockery of her marriage values and totally humiliate and disrespect her husband? You need to know the answers or it will happen again. I wish you luck.

F4L
I agree with Bryan that you should not trust your wife at this point to any degree! She was caught in a very bad situation and did the only thing she could possibly do at that point.
There is many steps and roads to travel before you even begin to accept what she is telling you. Please take the time to read through "surviving an affair" and as much as you can concerning the affair that you will find on this website.
For your own sanity, the kids and self, do not trust your wife at this point in time.

SM

She assures me that condoms were used. She had an STD screening last month (I have since learned) and was clear. It is so hard to know what to do. She says that she knows she must earn my trust, but you are correct, she has lied so many times before...

I want to believe that she means it this time.

Thank you. I am worried whenever I know that she is alone. Fearful that she is contacting him. I cannot be with her 24/7. I have to work and she has certain times of day when she is on her own. With the kids out of school her free time will be more limited. Still, she managed to find the time before...

F4L, I have similar circumstances and issues trusting my wife. I think also you need to verify things. If she is through the WithD and willing to offer affirmation of her behavior than I would take it. I wouldn't feel bad about asking for it either. My W also stated that the A was over, but I have no way to prove. She is honest, has been and once confronted also admitted. I caught her by looking through her CC bills. Right now she doesn't care about what I think, she's hurt, but yours is there and she wants to have your trust. I want to go fast, but I ask God to show me the way at HIS pace, not mine. He's slower than I am and it makes me frustrated. I am learning to trust HIM first. Good Luck one day at a time

F4L

some very good advice already given here for you at this time.

I have some big red flags coming from your WW behaviour right now... all too much lovely dovy and it ‘feels’ a bit manipulative.

I've been through this too & it sucks doesn’t it.
Your post of her current behaviour sounds so much like a person who is playing you. It may be that this is because you seem to have jumped in to the proposition that ‘suddenly’ its all over I didn’t mean it…… well guess what she did.

Your WW made a conscious choice to have this affair.

Now this is not to say she is not remorseful, or does not want to really save her M and family, believe it or not in this stage of an A - we call it fog talk around here - she could say this and even fool herself into believing it herself and STILL feel ok in continuing her A with the OM as long as the ‘family‘ is not hurt …e,g……..kept secret..

This sudden turn about should be treated with some scepticism and unfortunately you should do a few drive bys the OM’s house and yours at odd hours if you can swing it with work - have early lunch or late lunch- I’m sorry F4L it does not ‘feel’ right to me from your description. Keep checking without going over board.

oh and I'm sorry but you cant afford to trust that condoms were used everytime no matter what she said...both get checked urgently - its just wise to do so your kids dont need 2 sick parents on top of everything else.

However you need to sit down with your WW and tell her there is a lot of work to fix this M up, set boundaries - absolutely no contact with OM, no goodbyes, no closure no nothing, break this = M over, that sort of thing. If he contacts her she must terminate the contact IMMEDIATELY and ring & tell you , not a few days later but that day if she cannot tell you right away.

Frankly I don’t see you have much to celebrate this anniversary and to say its new beginning is rather foolish on your part right now. Its not a new beginning UNTIL she earns it. Please look at the facts here …she has lied to you DIRECTLY over many months, had sex with another man many times, betrayed you & her family, then blithely tells you lets just start over trust me ...but you notice only AFTER you catch her with the OM??? Do you really believe she has not contacted him since??? I wonder.

If you just pretend this didn’t happen then you will be only setting yourself up for more pain later when she will again feel entitled to have an A or perhaps this one will just go on but they will be smarter hiding it.

Now this is tough stuff f4l but the reason I say it is to show you that unless you start right with the basics here on MB - instead of jumping right into a possible false recovery - its likely all this will happen again.

DO read everything you can here, about plan A & B, get the books recommended in WATS post above your own here ..learn about love busters, about the love bank, find out what your WW 3 to 5 main emotional needs are, do the EN questionnaire together to see if the both of you even know the others main EN’s.

Learn how to express your pain & hurt that your WW actions caused you without attacking her & listen to her complaints - even if you disagree - listen and think on them - you don’t have to agree.
Learn about POJA - Policy of joint agreement - basically you both do not do things without both agreeing to.

Lots of work here f4l and as I said don’t just jump in & think its all OK………..its darn well not!! YET.

Read read read & then ask as many questions as you like, many will try to help....& remember in the end its YOU that has to decide what to do, we can just give you our experiences & hopefully you will avoid mistakes we made ...good luck I hope it will start working for you

Thanks Aussie2. Good advice there.

An update: The anniversary weekend was emotional. Tears from both of us. We were able to spend a good deal of time together and we talked about a lot of things. She admits that she misses the OM (withdrawal?) and that the A was not really about sex; it was about the escape from the chaos of her life with me and the children. She said that when she was with the OM she had peace. She also continues to apologize for the pain caused and says that she is committed to working to put our relationship back together.

I introduced the ideas of the Love Bank and Emotional Needs and she agreed to take the ENQ with me. We will be working through that this week.

The emotions seem to come in waves. Pain, anger, love. I tell her what I am feeling; trying to express how deeply she has hurt me.

If they were using condoms, why would she have an STD screening done just last month.

Of course she is going to tell you she was using condoms.

Yesterday was a tough day for my WS. She was missing the OM very much and was quite depressed. I told her that it was natural; that she had an intimate relationship with someone and that now it is over. Of course there will be withdrawal. She told me that he has not tried to contact her and reitereated her promise not to contact him. She is confident that he will not try (I think maybe the large, irate husband on his front lawn discouraged him).

I don't know what to do... should we talk about her missing the OM or do we not discuss the A and move forward? I can see that she is working hard to discipline her thoughts. However, she admits to being resentful of my accounting for her time. She says she feels a little caged and watched but knows that she put herself in this position and that she deserves my distrust.

She says that she is reluctant to talk to me about the A because I get hurt. I have told her that yes, I am deeply hurt but that she has already made the deepest cut. I am also trying to control myself so as not to commit any LBs. I do my crying when I am alone and only show a calm, compassionate face to her and the children.

Speaking of the children, my 17 yo DD came across my copy of His Needs, Her Needs last night and asked what was up. I told her that I had heard the author on the radio and that the book sounded interesting. I read a lot of different things, so it's plausible. She's a smart girl though and knows that there have been evenings when mom was out, location unknown, until very late hours. She may have added 2+2.

I sent my WS a link to the Four Steps article today. I hope that she reads it with an open mind. She was open to doing the ENQ (not done yet) and noticed that I picked up His Needs, Her Needs. So, she has been receptive.

I am cautiously optimistic. Still lots of work ahead.

how did you google the cell phone number??

If someone uses a cell phone for their business and its on their webpage google finds it. Or maybe they posted it somewhere on a bulletin board that google searched, well google has it. Unfortunately, most cell phone numbers are unlisted or maybe I should say fortunately.

The number that I googled was his home phone number. Came right up. Then I had a name. With the name I had an address. I found his cell phone number stored in her cell phone.

Thanks - I called a P.I.

Another tough day for my WS yesterday. She is really missing the OM and is worried about him. He is an alcoholic and she is concerned for his safety. She expressed worry that she could not do the hard work to put our relationship back together. What if she is not strong enough, she asked. The pull to be with the OM is strong. She admits that she feels some days as if she will not make it through the day without talking to him.

I listened to it all and let her tell me about how she is feeling without judging or getting angry. She had read the article that I sent to her on MB and thought that it was too "clinical" and that her feelings were real, not some "obsession". I told her that of course her feelings are real. She has been in a close relationship with someone who was meeting her needs and now that relationship is over. She misses having those needs met and I have not yet learned how to meet them in the way she wants them met. But I am trying.

Afterwords she hugged me and thanked me for listening. One small deposit in the love bank.

She told me last night that she and the OM had ended their relationship the week before I caught them. When I asked why then did she go back again, she said that she did not have a good answer. This troubles me.

I know that she is hurting and that she is worried about him. It is SO hard for me to see her in pain. We talked last night about the possibility of communicating with him to see if he is alright. I told her that I was not comfortable with any communication at this time but that if we could find a way for her to know that he is alright AND that we both agreed that it would not cause any more damage (POJA), I would have an open mind.

I asked her to think about what she would want out of another contact with him. Mostly, she wants to know that he is OK. I asked her what if he is and she said that she would have mixed feelings. On the one hand, she would be happy to know that he is alright but sad to know that he is not suffering the loss as much as she. I think this might be very painful for her; to learn that he is over it and moving on so quickly. That perhaps the relationship was not as meaningful to him as it was/is to her.

And what if he is not alright? She did not really answer that. My concern is that if she learns that he is not alright that she will feel a need to go to him and comfort him. This is, of course, unacceptable and I told her that I was not willing to risk it.

I told her that I did not want to hit the reset button on her withdrawal from him. I also asked what happens in another two weeks when she is worried about him again. At some point it has to stop. It occurred to me this morning that I don't really see what she would need to say to him that she did not say when they "ended it" the week before I caught her. I have not pointed that out to her yet. Should I?

Some things that we brainstormed were: I call him and see if he is OK (she does not think that I would get an honest answer from him, probably right); a phone call from her to him in my presence (she asked why I needed to be there); a letter that I read and mail (her response, no feedback from him); and even a meeting with the three of us (we both agreed that this would be surreal and honestly, I am not sure I could do that). I don't feel comfortable with any of these options, but I listened with an open mind.

She asked me last night what upset me the most about the whole situation. I told her it was that she chose to have an affair, jeopardizing our family, instead of talking to me about the issues. I told her that it hurt most of all that she had fallen in love with another man and that I hoped someday she could love me and choose me again; as she did when we married and as she chose and loved/loves the OM. She told me that she does love me and always has.

After all of that, she said this morning that she would get through this; that we would get through it. For me, I had a tough morning with visions of her and the OM together sexually. The thought of another man touching her, being with her, is very disturbing to me. Things pop into my head and I don't know what to do. Do I tell her what is on my mind? I am afraid that telling her how much it hurts me will cause her to shut down and stop talking out of concern for hurting me more.

So many questions... so much uncertainty... I feel truly lost... how did we get here? ... how do we get back? ... I want my life back. I feel so alone and scared of losing it all... I have no family nearby and I have told no one of the affair except my pastor and my medical doctor. I need a support system... where do I turn?

She needs to stop the contact. It only does her harm to continue any contact with him and only prolongs what has to eventually end.

There is the reality of what happened and then the things that pop into your mind. It is hard to separate the two. The truth is it all hurts, it's all painful and no matter what happened it can't be taken back. So at this point you can explain the pain to her, tell her you are willing to forgive her, and that you need her be faithful from here on. I don't think there is anything wrong with her understanding how she hurt you and the family and the pain you are going through.

ok you are doing ok here

some things to just bring to your attention though ..

NO CONTACT is essential... you hit it on the nose with she has to give it up some time and frankly what do you care what hes doing or if hes ok? This is her fog talking here stay gentle but firm on NO CONTACT.

Make sure you both have check up from doc... when was her last sexual contact etc ..you will need to know ..any hesitation you now shes not being up front. She will not like talking about it but you aren't asking for details yet so just ask about when they were last together sexually.
This can be life threatening...do it if you have not yet.

talking about OM can be god as long as you do not seem to support her feeling for OM. I mean encourage her to talk if she wants to BUT when she says things like I worry about him respond with a gentle I worry about my family and kids and I want to save our family. See? the repeating of this litany of saving the family, saving our M, and like commenst will get through the fog one day and she will see a very determined man doing his utmost to save what he loves.

At this stage just work away as you are ,, but I have to ask ...did you have her write a non contact letter asking him to NEVER contact her again and did you post it?? I feel you need to do this asap if you haven't.

This very hard but plug away with Plan A do the POJA thing and the EN's and keep trying to meet her EN's when you find out what she says about that even if she says she doesn't think you can, that you will never forgive her , blah blah blah ... its the fog talking & she is trying to think up reasons to break no contact to justify it for herself & you...dont fall for it...just smile and say you are going to work on that anyway to save your family.

Right now it all seems your work thats true, but dont give up mate, I think you have done some great work here and I feel the odds slowly moving your way. But its going to take hard work to get there.

Keep reading and keep on track and DONT agree to any of her foggy plans re contact ..your instincts as I said were spot on!!

Now one more thing,,,as you are now going from discovery into fighting for your M I suggest you transfer this thread to General Questions 11 or GQ11 as there are so many more very very expereinced posters there who are so much better than me on this stuff. I think there is a button to click on below your thread which allows you to move it to GQ11 ... just a suggestion mate it could help you a lot.

Thanks Aussie2 and RealArt. Your input and reassurance about my instincts are very helpful. It is all so fragile right now and I remain haunted by images of the two of them together. She is very resentful of the lack of trust and feels like she is under a microscope; every move being analyzed and judged. Judgements are a LB and I am _trying_ to not judge; just listen. It is so hard.

We looked over the ENQ last night together and she said that it could be "interesting". Not very enthusiastic; but she seems willing to do it.

We talked about one of my emotional needs, affection, and the fact that we have some incompatability in this area. I am very affectionate and like to kiss, hug, hold hands etc. I find affectionate acts very reassuring. She was not very responsive last night; although that is not unusual. She is not a "touchy-feely" type and physical displays of affection are not really her style. My need for affection can put her off. I think it comes off as neediness and she really does not like that. She even said last night that perhaps I should have married someone more affectionate.

I am trying to not be disappointed when she does not respond and I am trying to not act on my every impulse need for affection. It is hard to reach out to her and not have her respond. There is a voice inside me that keeps saying "she knows this is important to me, she knows that a small affectionate gesture can make my whole day, I know that she is not touchy-feely, but still, why won't she do this for me just because it makes me happy?" Wrong thinking?

Details. As I said I am haunted by thoughts of them together sexually. Should I ask for details? If so, how much detail? I know that she would be uncomfortable telling me and would likely not out of fear of causing still more pain. Or, do I wait for the thoughts to fade?

Sex has long been an issue in our relationship with my interest far exceeding hers. She has maintained that the relationship with the OM was not really about sex but more about escaping from the chaos of her life with me. She has said that she found "peace" when she was with him. To which my thought, unexpressed, was "Well of course it was peaceful! He doesn't have two kids fighting over the TV at home, piles of laundry to do, sports practices to get to, dinner to make, bills to pay etc. All they had to focus on was each other." Of course he has all of those things (except the kids at home; he has a 3 yo son who lives with a woman that he never married). They just never reached the point where everyday life intruded into the romance.

Still, sex is important to me and I worry that if she found a more fulfilling experience with the OM and won't tell me about it how will I ever be able to offer a similar experience? I am very open-minded sexually. On the other hand, she commented a few weeks ago that if we had not done it by now (meaning some unspecified, untried sex act), that she probably did not want to do it.

I did notice that on those occassions when we did have sex over the last six months that she was more "experimental". Nothing outrageous but we did things together sexually in the last six months that we had never done before in 20+ years of having sex. I have to wonder how much of that was carryover from the OM...

Sex on the brain today... every day a new adventure. What do I do with these thoughts? They distract and consume me throughout the day leaving me less able to maintain the open demeanor with her in the evening. Sometimes I am reduced to tears.

This forum has been a great support to me... I have no close friends or family nearby and I am not sure that I could share a lot of this with them in any event. Sometimes the company of like-minded strangers is best.

My opinion is the only details you generally need to know of an affair is, was the affair with a friend, did the affair threaten the life or harm someone, did the affair cause financial consequences? Beyond that the pain and hurt are already there, why add to it? You don't need to know what type of sex, where it took place (unless it was in your house and he has key), those are just details that will haunt you forever and will remind you constantly of the affair.

She may be telling you the truth here. Women do enjoy sex but there has to be a strong emotional connection first in order for this to occur. The withdrawl probably has to do more with the loss of that emotional connection than the physical one. Women do have a tendency to give their bodies to the men they have a strong emotional connection in order to keep that connection going. They know that if they don't put out that there is more than a good chance that the men will grow tire and dump them. A great many FWW's deeply regret the decision they made to turn their emotional affair into a full blown one with sex. They realize that whatever friendship their was, ended when they cross the physical line into sex. This is not surprising considering that women, more than men, define their lives by the relationships they have with others. So while it is very easy to beleive, as a man, that your W became a 'nymphomaniac' when she was with the OM, the most likely truth is that this was not the case.

TMCM