OH...
Another day and another laugh here....
I just love you guys....
If only the WH could make me laugh like this...
Thanks guys...

Sleepless, this stuff only works on normal, hot-blooded human women! You'll need an ambassador from the mothership to educate you on how to turn on an alien. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Holy Cow,
Have I been in the dark THAT long. I couln't have imagined this in my wildest dreams!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Mars and Venus. That's all I can say.
Jerry

Well, the UPS man is hard to resist. Those cute brown shorts, the sexy truck, the package. Oh, yeaahhh! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

wet kisses on the nape of the neck .... OMG ... STAND BACK !

Ummm, my UPS man never did that!! I've been cheated! He did have a nice package, though. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Happy day all you Dads. Saw this thread and thought I’d take a peak…can’t resist this opportunity to pontificate…this is a great thread for men …but don’t seem to be all that many men responding…in fact…can any of you ladies say the word hi-jack?! LOL

So now I have, from the female perspective, the info I need to really turn a woman on? And that would be…to sign a contract for indentured servitude? Hello! Can any one say…celibate? LMAO

But if you ladies would close your ears for a moment, here’s some ideas that might help we guys…

1. Don’t be grabbing and feeling all the time. Touching is nice…gentile, seemingly incidental touching. Nothing overt or demanding. Just a kind of a constant incidental presence.
2. Sure…you need to be there to help out…especially with children…but you also have to know when to stay out of the way…when “she’s” concentrating or doing something which she demands her total attention for example. Guys, I know it will come as a shock to you because it was a shock to me…when I found out that I wasn’t the center of her Universe! The very idea. But my brothers, that’s reality. Woman seem to be hard wired with values about which we have no clue.
3. Don’t be so damn obvious all the time. Walking up to her, throwing her over your shoulder and taking her back to your cave is not meant to be a daily activity. It kind of looses something when it becomes the expected rather then unexpected.
4. Speaking of which…I always found the unexpected to be a huge turn on to my wife…unexpected dinner invites, little, cute, meaningless gifts, tickets to a show that *everybody* (particularly all her friends) want to see. How about grabbing her for an unplanned drive in to look at something together…anything…that you want to share with only her. One time in the dead of winter (during a big time nasty cold streak…verrrrrry cold) I stopped in to a Travel Agency and bought a long weekend for us in Puerto Rico! No plans no nothing…went home told her to pack…we went to the airport and she was totally freaked out until we got to the hotel where she promptly threw me over her shoulder and dragged me to HER cave…that being a hotel room in P.R! The woman wouldn’t let me out of bed for 3 days! We never even saw the pool! LOL
5. And here’s a biggie…I swear the biggie of all biggies…how about just learning to listen to her? I mean with no response other then your total attention? How about not making any suggestions to her about what she may be talking to you about? How about not telling her what she did wrong…re: the sitch she may be describing? How about not trying to fix what ever it is that happens to be *HER* problem? How about just being there to lend support? How about it?
6. How about just staring at her some morning, noon or night…not saying anything, but just staring…as if you can never get enough of seeing her?
7. How about crying a little bit when you see her with your baby in her arms…crying at the beauty and the wonder of her being a mother?
8. How about just rubbing her back or feet after she’s had a hard day?
9. How about coming home some night and trying to cook her a gourmet dinner…and then cleaning up after!?
10. How about asking her what she wants you to wear or how she wants you to look?
11. And finally, how about once getting her into your bed, you make sure…very, very, very sure…that *she* never wants to get out?! Hummm

Just some ideas that may help. Ideas that have always helped me anyway.
Coach

Coach, that was beautiful, and right on! Got me a little teary (gulp). You should write a handbook.

Thank you so much, Coach! We ladies were just passing the time till you got here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Okay, ladies, I may be strange, but a post from esk describes very well what I like - What do you think??????

Man... I don't come around here that often, even though I am a big believer in HNHN methods. Mostly because I think so many of the issues here, people bring on themselves. This post is a good example.

Starfish gave you REALLY good advice you would do well to heed. Truly a rare breed, a woman who both knows what she wants, and tells it like it is.

I think we all agree that, with the masturbation stuff going on, the issue is not her libido. Also, it sounds like from your post she is not having an affair. So, all that leaves is you!

The problem here, IMO, is that you are approaching this situation in a completely "beta" way. For instance:


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I now search for a way for her to let me fill that role. The whole thing can be summed up by a man's desire to BE DESIRED by a woman.



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"Let you fill the role"? A desire to "be desired"?

No.

Here it is, straight up: Women, like MEN. ALPHA men. Men who take charge, and behave in a leadership, manly way. NOT "MACHO" - Manly. Think John Wayne, or Humphrey Bogart, instead of Rico Suave.

The idea is not for her to fulfill *your* "desire to be desired", the idea is to behave in such a manner as to make her desire you in the first place!

You mention the "romance novels", which are a bad place to get advice, but let's go with that archetype anyway. Does the Fabio character on the front jump off the horse, he of heaving chest, and say "Gosh, I really WISH you'd let me fulfill the lover role in your life. How I would love to be desired by you!" **** no! He wraps his arm around her waist, pulls her in close, displaying firmness and gentleness all at the same time, and looks her in the eyes in a way she knows he's going to kiss her, and then he does it. Period.


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I suppose I could try to come to grips with her masturbating, although it hurts when it takes away from her expressing her sexual energy WITH me. I really feel as though I work hard in this marriage -- being the super dad, super husband, ect. What more can I do to turn her sexual thoughts towards me?


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This is where MB and I separate views. Yeah, it's great you do all that stuff. Me too! But, being "superdad" doesn't exactly get the motor revving like they told us it would, does it? Think about it. What are you doing to generate *attraction* towards you in the relationship? What sort of things did you do when you were dating? Are you doing those things now? Yeah, being a good husband and father is great, but it doesn't make people horny. It is, those things you do that are "out of character", or "mysterious", or "spontaneous" that gets people moving (women to men, as well... mmmmm, new lingerie, druel) that gets the other side going. To borrow a phrase from a non-MB "dating" guru:

"You can't bore her into attraction!"




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The worst part is being rejected for sex one night, and then hearing her masturbate the next night. My mind turns to what she is fantisizing about, if not me.


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Man, this is messed up. I'm glad Starfish posted first, because when I read this, my first thought of what I'd think if I caught MY wife masturbating was, "Hell YEEAAHH baby!" Join IN! Exactly like Starfish said - "Here, let me help you with that", etc. She's already horny, obviously... what easier initiation could there be?!


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So I imagine what women would fantisize about. It's not porn like men, but emotional, it's flirting, it's secret rendezvous, the stuff that makes romance novels, and THEN it turns to sex.


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Glad Starfish set you straight that this is total ********. They masturbate about the same things as we do - hard, nasty, sweaty sex. You wanna be what she ***** ***about? Give her... hard, nasty, sweaty sex. 'Nuff said on that topic.


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So I want to fill that role. I just worry that the mere fact that it is ME, precludes me from possibly filling the secret rendezvousish aspects, and therefore leaves me out of the novel. I've been flirting with her as much as I can, being romantic, ect.,


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So much *wanting*, so little ACTION. Less romance, more ALPHANESS.
.,


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but it just seems watsed because in her mind, I'm just trying to get sex. .,


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And the problem with that would be?....

You are MARRIED. You have the RIGHT to good sex, and so does your wife! GOOD sex, not boring sex! Sex is at the core of a romantic relationship - it is what separates romantic relationships, from platonic ones! You should never make excuses or apologies for yourself, or your natural desires as a man. All of this erroneous social programming where men think that they are the only ones who enjoy sex, and for women it's somehow a "chore" or an obligation is ridiculous! Women enjoy sex just as much as men, and any woman who convinces a man otherwise is merely using this as a tool for manipulation, and playing a man for a fool. Don't fall for it. Clearly, your wife WANTS "just sex", that's why she's whacking off at night.


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As an added issue, I feel as though when I talk to her about it, it tends to make things worse by adding to her unwritten list of things that the fantasy flirter would never do.


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Here's where your thinking is correct. I agree 100%. The solution to this is most DEFINITELY not to "talk about it". Your wife doesn't want a man who ASKS PERMISSION to have sex with his own wife - what could be more beta? Fact is, sometimes, women really do want to just be **TAKEN**, and screwed just in the way described in those ridiculous romance novels. So, take a page from the book (literally in this case), and throw the rest away.

Works for me every time... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I know 'Neak is kidding, but seriously, I know I don't want a servant. I want someone who can stand up for himself, but is willing to compromise from time to time. I want someone who won't let me walk all over him, but won't try to control me, either. Someone who is a man, but a nice man. Does that make sense?

*sigh* You're right, Pebbles. The Love Slave routine would get old after a while.

The big three for me are

1. Basic personal hygiene and grooming
2. Familiarity and comfort in his body and sexuality
3. Genuine interest and delight in my body and sexuality

Sally