ad

I should be sleeping, I know. I took my pill <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> and I'm sleepy, but I've just got to post a few notes.

-AD

Thinking on it some more... I wonder if she is just saying these things to bait me along to help her move.

But for years (it seems), she's been saying basicly, "lets go on and you do everything for me - because I just might decide to keep you after all."

That's not good enough anymore.

-AD

AD:

Maybe it's a spark of sentience, maybe it's manipulation.

I don't think you're doing wrong by yourself and your daughter by being guardedly hopeful like you are.

-ol' 2long

Thanks 2,

I've heard this kind of thing many times.

A fellow could become a cynic after awhile. Even me.

For now, the door is well and truely still open (on my end). But she's going to have to jump through some really narrow flaming hoops to get through that door. No half-way measures will accomplish that. Only a good running start and a headlong dive will do it. I'll be ready to catch her on the other side.

Have a great trip, 2Long. Say "hi" to Tempel 1 for me. Slug of copper the size of a washing machine - at 10000 m/s. Hello! Ouch!

-AD

I had a hard day.

I'll spare you the rest of the tiresome details. I lost control of my evening - and WW was calling the tune. Stupid of me.


Friends, I appologize for being so incredibly boring and wimpish!

-AD

AD, if you don't quit knocking yourself down I'm gonna come over there and shake you.

GC

Yes what Gray said, and I think you are doing fine AD.

You are staying on friendly terms, and now I agree that this is best...especially for DD.

My DD's dad and I remained close friends the first 4 years we were apart up until he met his wife and I met Dan, and even now when push comes to shove we are able to be friendly. It was rough for awhile after his marriage but the little trip to the mediator fixed that.

So I think what you are are doing is good in the interests of your families well being.

I am a little concerned about your work though and am looking forward to hearing you say that your energy is being used as it should be when you are working.

Hi AD,

I don't think u r a wimp. I think you are a very nice guy who is being taken advantage of. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Hmmmph..... what r u going t/d about that?

Pamper yourself and your D. If the WS says she will do something, acknowledge it but don't count on it. Dissappointment is a WS weapon. They learn to use it to cut us deeply right through to our heart. Wear the MB shield that deflects and protects your heart.

You are being quite generous to her. Where is her other support?

L.

GC,

Well, you should shake me. Whine is the language of neither success nor love, LOL.

Weaver,

You too (since you said "what GC said"). Thanks.

Help me stay off MB! OK? (while I'm at work).

Orchid,

Thanks for the supportive words.

----------UPDATE------------

I don't cling to any hope, although I have a little bit of it.

-AD

OK, to me, that means we're done. Final. For (almost) sure.

I sent an email to WW to that effect.

-AD

When she asks a stupid/foggy question, don't supply the answer or give multiple choices. Just shoot the question back to her.

Here's my version:

w: "Does it have to be this way?"
AD: "What has to be what way?"
w: "Do I have to be separated from DD? I don't want to ever be separated from her."
AD: "That's your choice. I don't know."
w: "Sometimes I wish you would just dissappear."
AD: "Yea, I wish the WS in you would disappear also. Here's DD for a final goodnight"

L.

Orchid, aloha! I'm glad you stopped in on this thread. AD's got a live one. She's full of self-justifying and demand-making jive.

AD... Describing your WW's shenanigans and what they do to you hardly qualifies as whining. It's real, and it's biiiiig stuff.

But all this beating up on yourself has to stop. Don't want to feel like a wimp? Then don't be one! It's that simple. And I don't think you are or have been. You're trying to protect yourself and still have compassion for your wife and still be loving toward her. That balance is tricky.

Being a vicious hardass is overrated. It's a matter of pride, nothing more. And pride is a deadly sin, right? For a reason.

Humility, compassion, reasonable self-defense, and smarts are your friends.

If she treats you badly or does something that makes you feel humiliated, it's good to be able to identify it, quickly, so you can immediately create barriers to her ability to do it again, and in a way so she knows you aren't willing to tolerate her abuse.

Whoops, I used the "A" word... a favorite fake defense of many WS, and an offense of which they're all guilty. ABUSE.

GC

Thanks Orchid and GC,

Orchid,

The reverse babble might be useful in these situations. Usually, I just let it slide. I don't respond to those kinds of comments, but your response doesn't seem like babble at all - just a way to ask her to be specific.

I think she's used to giving me crumbs and me lapping them up. It's her way. She's always done it. Her first BF asked her to marry her, gave her a ring - and she gave him no answer, left the country two weeks later and never answered his letters. She likes to keep 'em hanging.

So, to me, she says something knowing that I might take it as a hopeful sign, and I think the right thing to do is get her to nail it down - tell me what she is talking about.

But, really, I think I'm done. In my email to her, I told her that I would like to file by the end of the month (uncontested) and be D'ed by Sept. 1.

It still hurts, but the more I'm around her, the more it hurts - and the less I'm around her, the less it hurts. Solution is easy, right?

DD is sitting on my neck, so I'd better stop typing now.

-AD

The A exists because the WS must know what the BS is up to. Withhold that info and it starts to kill the A. Leaving the WS wondering what the BS is up to is like smothering the A. You did realize that as the BS you are probably their #1 topic, right? Most of us are. That in itself c/b a great tool.... keep 'em wondering.

In other words, don't tell her when you will file or if you will file, just file when you are ready.

L.

Orchid,

Strangely, I don't think WW talks to OM about me much - at least nothing specific or real. I think it's strange. I would expect them to strategize or plot against me, but my W is an unusual woman. She has a strange sort of backwards loyalty to me.

But.... I do know that WW wonders what I'm up to sometimes - and it is good (for me) when she does. I would try to maximise that but I've given up. Divorce will happen. It's just a matter of time. The sooner the better for me.

We allready agreed on all the terms of an uncontested D. Much, much cheaper and faster than a court battle.

Sept 1 is my target. I need to call the lawyer Tuesday (or whenever he's back in teh office) and get the papers updated (remove summer visitation schedule for time that is already past - and a few other tweeks). Also, I have to attend the "Parenting in Divorce" seminar - hopefully next Sat morning. If all goes smoothly, she'll get her citizenship in mid-July and we can file before the end of the month. For an uncontested D, it's 30 days in our state. I'll sign. She'll probably sign. If both of us sign and agree on property division, custody, visitation and support, the judge just holds it 30 days then signs it.

60 days after that, we are both free to marry. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I'm sure not going to be. LOL. I honestly don't think she will either. The house will likely take a while to sell - hopefully not longer than 6 months.

If I can make the cashflow, I'll survive. I'll survive otherwise, but it will be more painful.

-AD

Yea well the WS in my case claimed loyalty to me also while he was telling me that he defended me to the OW. Like I needed defending, against what a psycho nut? LOL!!! I told him don't bother. I didn't need defending to someone in the fog. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Well it may seem like all w/b uncontested but who knows what a WS will do when all the legalese get lined up and ready t/g. One thing I learned is a WS is not trustworthy. They will change history and the future in a twinkle of an eye and create chaos in the interim. Sure w/b nice to harness all that frustration and energy and use it to resolve the energy crisis or something useful. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

Orchid,

I'm certainly aware the the uncontested deal may not fly. WW may change her mind and decide that it's not good enough. I'll just have to live day-by-day.

For whatever it's worth, I just tonight figured out that WW's new cell phone is somehow linked with OM's. I called and got the mailbox, and was for a few minutes confused, because the automatic message gave a different number. Then I realized that it said you may leave a message for mailbox xxx-yyy-zzzz-1 Now, WW's number is not xxx-yyy-zzzz, but although I didn't really hear it well enough to have it register, I think it was OM's number.

I asked her about it. She at first, didn't deny nor confirm. Then she said, "Its my phone, in my name and they bill me for it". But, I'm pretty sure I heard what I heard.

So, maybe 60 days will do it for her. That would be about Nov 1st. Maybe they could wait and get married on our December anniversary. LOL. It would save her from trying to keep it straight.

Really, I don't know what she's planning to do. She's been talking as if she plans to be independent, but only time will tell. I don't much care anymore.

-AD

GC,

You certainly are right.

Sorry I didn't give you more response before. DD, really was sitting on my neck. I'm sitting in a chair, and I don't know how she climbed up there, but it was time to investigate the matter - extensively - involving running around the house roaring like a bear. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Seriously, the "whine" and "needy" features of a man are never attractive. That's just the plain, simple, deadly truth. I think I know what would have secured my wife - at least for a few years. I know what I could have done and been that would have excited her. I just didn't do it. I doesn't matter whether I could do it, or could not. I didn't.

She wanted/needed me to be strong, purposeful, vigorous - to have a vision for our future as a family and to be pulling the oars without missing a beat - no matter what she did. Could I have done it? Well, I hope so, but I don't know, because I didn't do it. And I don't think for a minute that any other woman would find drifting along as the boat approaches the rapids any more favorably than does my W. With another woman it might have been easier - or more difficult. I don't know.

"Looking for sympathy" is rarely a successful strategy for a man in any circumstances.


In reasonable doses, properly weighted.

In a metaphor of our entire marriage, this incident happened this evening (well, technically, yesterday evening, but you know, on the 4th).

W and I were at the stadium for the fireworks (and baseball preceding).

She doesn't usually drive there and wanted some help finding her way home. So,

1) She asked me to lead her - by driving in front of her - until she came to the familiar road.
2) I agreed - and proceded along, watching her in the mirrors.
3) She passed me on the right, and took a wrong turn.

That's our marriage in a nutshell.

Then... I tried to help.

4) I called her on the cell - told her that she was going the wrong way on the interstate and should take the next exit, turn around and she would soon find herself on familiar turf.
5) Much much later, she called to say that she had wandered around "for quite some time" - stopped somewhere to buy chicken nuggets for DD, was appoached by a drunk woman asking for money "for gas", said she didn't have any cash, offered to buy the woman gas with a credit card, woman declined (hard to trade gas for liquor, I suppose).

In short, she reeaaaaalllyy took a wrong turn.

I listened, didn't critisise her or say "why didn't you follow?"

So.... If she asked me to lead, why didn't she follow?

I'll never know. It's the story of our marriage.

-AD