Update:

I did my laundry at bro's house yesterday.

Yesterday WW went to the baseball game with me, my bro and his family. During the game, WW commented that her back was hurting - and I rubbed a little - which she seemed to appreciate.

When we left the game, she drove me back to my car (I told her where to turn etc.) As we arrived at my car, DD said some things that really hurt her mom's feelings. She said she wanted to go to Daddy's house. I was just holding my breath. I do not want my W to be hurt - and this is probably the most sensitive place to touch her - and it was not me doing it. I told DD she could come to my house another day. I think I was wise enough not to tell her "You must go to Mom's house" - as if it were a punishment. I left the car quickly, not wanting it to get worse.

Then we had the driving incident I described above.

I think WW was so shocked and hurt by DD's comments that she was not paying full attention.

When she called later, she said that DD fell asleep in the car - and she was thinking of bringing her to my house. While she drove (lost) she was thinking of all the things that she did as a Mom and what she should change. She felt very rejected. Honestly, one thing she mentioned [g]is[/b] a problem. She hovers over the girl - corrects every word as she speaks - prompts her with what to say - corrects the things she does etc. I do think that DD enjoys that I don't do that. But, on the othr hand, I think WW delivers to DD more intense fun than I do. I wish it didn't happen that way. I don't want to be into competitive parenting.

WW has been calling, reaching out to me etc. I try not to go to "our" house while she is there, and I haven't been back to her apt - don't plan to go there (except to set up the computer <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />).

I had today off - and was really doing pretty much nothing.

Today, WW ate two meals here - brought BBQ, ate a sandwich, left. 4 or 5 hours later, I invited her to come eat another (she left the BBQ). She was driving when I called and had to pass nearby, so she and DD came.

Today, when they arrived, DD more-or-less told her Mom to go away. I scolded DD for this, and invited WW in. At time to leave, DD again wanted to stay. I walked out to the car with them and came back quickly inside. I hope this stops soon. WW is very sensitive in her role as a Mom.

My approach tp WW right now is just to do whatever is comfortable for me. I don't mind WW coming here. I don't enjoy being with her at "our" house - or being there at all really, but I'm going to have to go over there and clean and prep for sale after she moves.

Tomorrow morning the movers come to "our" house to move WW's stuff. I won't be there.

-AD

Even though your child maybe young, find out why your D is adamant about being with you. Let her express her feelings. Give her a 'safe haven' with you. You may learn a lot from this little one. Don't pump her just provide a safe environment for her to share her observations.

take care,
L.

Orchid,

Nobody's going to learn any more about DD's thoughts on this than we have already heard. She is behind in her speech, although she is developing nicely. She is not able to express her thoughts and feelings well enough to give any weight at all to what she says. I know you may not believe that, but I know my daughter well. You simply cannot take her words at face value. More than half of what she says is some kind of recitation from a video or story that she saw.

On balance, I should also note that DD put on a little drama the other day - twice. "Oh no! I lost my mommy! I lost my mommy and I can't find her anywhere!" This is a line from a video - with "mommy" being the only word different - substituted for another missing object in the original. DD is a pretty good little actress. All the same, every time she mentions her Mom, I ask her if she wants to call mom - and often I do - dial the phone and hand it to DD.

I think it is just normal manipulation. DD knows her Mom very well - and children are expert manipulators. Also, she is still enjoying the novelty of "Dad's house". Soon, she will enjoy the novelty of Mom's apt. She is very secure in her Mom's love. We adults have to lay down the line. DD doesn't get to choose (at this age) where she goes or when. We cannot lay that responsibilty on her. We cannot allow her (let alone force her) to choose between her parents. She has two, on a schedule. I hope WW soon grows a hide - so that this kind of thing does not affect her so much.

-AD

Update again:

I have DD tomorrow evening and overnight.

Today, WW got herself moved. The best stuff from a 4000sq. ft. house jammed into a 2-br apt. She should have left more things behind. She took the TV and dvd player - was supposed to be mine. I'm not sure I care. I dont' want to waste my time watching TV, but sometime I'm going to want to watch some movies.

I called as I was leaving work - asked if she wanted me to hook up the laundry. "Yes". So, I went and took a look - needed dryer vent. I don't trust those flex vents - so I got some rigid stuff. Unfortunately, it didn't work out - and by then the depot was closed. W was ticked off. I felt used. I thought "stupid me, did it again - tried to do something for her and got punished for it". I went to the w-mart and got the flex vent - put that on. Got an appology and a hug. I'm still going to D her. LOL

I don't want to go over there again - but I promised to set up her computer. She said "the apartment manager said something about internet, but I don't remmber what". Great. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I told her to find out about it - and until then there is no reason to move the computer.

I don't know what plans she has made for the citizenship event next week. Maybe she still expects me to take her. I really wouldn't mind - the way I'm feeling right now.

That's it. to bed now.

-AD

G'morning! ... orning... orning ... orning

Is any body HERE?! ..here... here... here.

(sounds kinda empty)

Oh well.

I crossed another financial trip-point today - applied for a loan against my 401k. After this, the next step is to start selling things. Van, piano...

... that is, unless the house sells quickly.

-AD

AD,

You said something that I didn't realize was the case in your sitch..

** If all goes smoothly, she'll get her citizenship in mid-July and we can file before the end of the month.**

Why wait until she get's her citizenship papers??

Doesn't immigration continue to investigate if a marriage is 'legal' until citizenship is granted?

Now, I realize you don't want to use that to keep her in the marriage, but at the same time, it IS HER choice to leave the marriage and thus lose the opportunity for citizenship?

I guess it causes me to wonder, if she only married you so that she could get her citizenship, and then planned to leave you all along. The timing of it all gives me pause is all.

Her choices, are just that, HER Choices, if she has chosen to leave the marriage before her citizenship papers are final, then that is her decision, and if that means she is seperated from your daughter because she chose to be deported back to Russia, that too is her choice is it not?

Maybe that realization alone would give her pause to REALLY reconsider working on the marriage?

AD,

A comment about your doing the "family" things, it is even more difficult on children than people tend to think, it really does give them a false sense of hope that their parents will get back together.

I wouldn't help her move out of the house either, again, it's her choice to have the A, let her learn to depend on HIM to do things for her. I know you "want" to help, but don't enable her.

When my ex-h chose to move out do you think I helped? Heck No, He was the one wanting to end the marriage, instead of making changes that could save the marriage, why should I help him?


My current husband, three years AFTER his divorce was still going over and helping his ex-w, even though she was still seeing OM. I told him point blank if your going to continue to run and help every time she calls even though you are divorced and both seeing other people now, then the two of you need to go back in marriage counseling and make THAT marriage work. Either your going to remain married to her or your not, but I won't be in a relationship with someone who is still emotionally attached to someone else.

I said, I understand if it's something to with the kids, but not to mow her lawn or fix something for her, your doing those things end when you divorce. She can either get out there and mow her own lawn, have her boyfriend mow it, or hire someone else to do it, but if your going to continue doing those things, then it's in MY best interest to end OUR relationship. He stopped doing things for her, and you know what, OM didn't run to help her either, and actually ended his relationship with her and married someone ELSE!!

So you need to ask yourself, for how many years from now are you going to be running to her rescue when she is the one wanting to be with someone else? When is she going to be able to learn OM isn't going to be there to meet her needs the way you have? That is what plan B is about, allowing her to see OM as he really is, not being able to be there the way SHE seems to THINK he will be.

Let her see that now, heck let HIM be the one to take her when she takes her citizenship test, let HIM help her move out or let her get someone else to help her or do it herself.

TR,


Why not? It doesn't cost me anything. She could apply without the marriage in May anyway. Why delay her citizenship?


I think you overestimate the manpower available to INS. There are something like 900 thousand pending applications for citizenship. And if they investigate, they will find a legit marriage. People divorce every day. Some of them just happen to be immigrants.


She would only experience a delay. There is no advantage to me to delay it. In fact it is to my advantage that she become a citizen. I have no interest in being spiteful. She has lived here for almost 9 years. It has become her home.

Also, my mother (in my childhood) spent a great deal of time helping people gain citizenship. It has been a special thing for me all my life. For the sake of my Mom's memory, I would like to see W become a citizen.


At the time of the marriage, she didn't even understand how the immigration stuff worked. She married me to please her Mom - not to become a citizen.


She is a permanent resident of the US. She would in no case be deported. Even if the laws were different, I consider immigration a separate issue. I would not use any immigration-related "trick" to separate my child from her mother. This may not be love, but it's not war either.


I don't want a captive wife.

-AD

TR,

On the question of helping my wife, I'll tell you my thoughts.

This is not plan B. We are going to be divorced. I am at peace with that.

But, she is my wife right now, not yet my ex-wife. There are many situations in which I would respond to her need because it still is my duty to do so. For example, in a medical situation or if she was simply sick and needed some help, I would be there for her. If she was in a car accident or something like that, I would be there.

Right now, I'm in a winding-down stage. I do the things that I feel comfortable doing - and decline to do the things that I am not comfortable doing. I didn't help her move - nor did I pay for the move. She had to pay for that out of the CS that I paid her for July. I went over to hook up the laundry because it was on my way home, I didn't think that would cause me any pain, and I got to see my daughter for a few minutes while I was there.

After we are divorced, as I have plainly told her, the only thing I will do for her is give her 2 checks each month - for CS and "temporary alimony" - until the time for the TA ends - after which it will be one check. She knows the amounts. I will exchange information with her about our daughter and cooperate in issues related to parenting. That's all.

I will not enter her apartment. I will not go there except to pick up or drop off our child. I will not inivite her into my home. If she comes at any time other than to pickup or drop off our daughter, I will ask her to leave. I will not chit-chat on the phone with her. I will not discuss my personal activities with her. I will not watch her nor monitor her activities in any way - except as it very narrowly relates to my daughter. I will not lend her money. I will not help her with any problems she has. I will not contact any of her family - unless my daughter is there visiting them. If she has some critical need, and calls me, I will suggest she call 911. If she is too sick on some occasion to care for our daughter, I'll go get my daughter and let XW handle her own medical situation.

I will try to take as little interest in her life as possible. I have no interest in punishing her. I am not a vengeful man. I'll not be wasting mental and emotional energy thinking about her. I'll not be posting anything about how satisfying it is to see her crash and burn - because I'll not be watching - except as it relates to my daughter.

I will gradually elliminate from my life things which are associated with her in my memory - as I notice them and have time or money to replace them. I will not keep photos of her in my home. My ring, the wedding albumn, video and related things will be put away for our daughter to have if she ever wants them.

Honestly, I hope she does well and finds happiness. Why not? I hope everybody does well and finds happiness.

That's my current plan, but if I decide to do something else later, I'll do whatever seems right and is comfortable to me at the time.

-AD

OK people, let me have your opinions!
(if anybody is still reading. Otherwise I'll go post a poll, LOL)

I called WW at lunch time - was waiting in the drivethrough line and figured I was wasting time anyway, so I called to talk about the upcoming citizenship interview - prep etc.

Most importantly, she seems to have always assumed that I would take her - even though I said I would not. I guess she knows me well. <sigh> I will take her. I'm feeling a lot better these days. So, I think I can go without being overwhelmed by emotion and making a fool of myself.

We'll drive over the night before, because I don't want to leave at 3am - and return at midnight. That would be too much for me.

So...

Now here is the questiong for you fine people:

2 hotel rooms or 1?

My current plan is stop somewhere outside the city (where the rooms are cheap) and get two rooms. Alternatively (for the same money), we could get a room in a nicer place in town near the place where her appointment is.

My guess is that she'll be hurt that I got two rooms - but it would be easier on me - and will avoid several possible problems while earning me a little respect.

It's not important - since we are getting D'ed anyway. Right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

But, I'd still like to hear your opinions.


-AD

I vote for two rooms.

Yes, I agree. Two rooms.

And here's a question for you... where will your daughter be? Is she going with you for this? If so, it's even more important that you do two rooms. Divorce is hard enough on children. Seeing mommy and daddy staying in the same room together may give her hope of the two of you getting back together - or at least encourage that hope. She probably already has that hope. You could end up causing her confusion.

But in my opinion, your own mental well-being is reason enough for two rooms.

Ad,
You seem to be at peace on the surface. I would guess that way down deep, there are still some tears that don't get out.

You talk a lot about trying to make your W look like a good mom, and the thought I had is that a good mom won't tear her family apart to spend time with an OM. A good mom doesn't do that.

Perhaps she has good parenting skills, and perhaps she loves her daughter, but I still wonder how that term can be applied to someone that gets the hots for someone else, and leaves their marriage.

I hope the house sells soon, and that you can get the finance stuff off your plate. Wishing you a good weekend.

SS

OK, that's 2 votes for 2 rooms and 1 abstention.

No vote for 1 room yet.

-----------------------
FF,

Thanks for your vote.

osxgirl,

DD will sleep in her Mom's room.

SS,

It does not matter whether, in my view, or in your view, or in the MB view, having an A automatically makes my wife a unsuitable mom. What matters is the courts' view. In the court's view (here), affairs don't matter in custody decisions. In the absense of abuse or neglect, the parent who has been the primary parent will be given custody - unless they don't want it. Since my wife has been a SAHM, the odds of me getting custody are extrememly slim - and to attempt it would require a period (more than a year) of war - which would not be in the best interest of our child.

I try not to waste my energy on things that I cannot change. For my case, I cannot change this. Perhaps after years of political action, the laws could be changed. But right now, for my child, I cannot change it. So, I accept it. What made it much easier for me, is realizing that in our county of our state, "standard visitation" is quite generous to the non-custodial parent. I will get 10 overnights a month - without a fight. I can live with that.

Yes, there are tears yet unshed. I'll let them come when they are ready. I'm not going to try to squeeze 'em all out right now. I'll take one day at a time, trying to live in the NOW. That is my goal.

-AD

Since W moved out on Tuesday, I went by the house yesterday after work, and again later in the night.

It was very strange and painful to be there - especially at night. I had entertained thoughts of sleeping over there, since W is gone and I have a lot of work to get it ready to sell. But, it was too painful to be there.

In the afternoon, when I was there loading my van with books (probably 500 pounds of them on that trip), W came by and was doing something. I didn't mind being there with her in the daylight - but I think I would after dark. I don't know why.

The second trip was kitchen stuff mainly.

I feel like I have a ticket to a long-running, private, free rummage sale. I go over there and roam around picking up things that interest me, then w does the same.

W has bought a kitten - so I'm the loser in the race to buy a pet. DD, of course, will be missing her kitty when she's with me. So, I supose I've got to get a puppy if I want to stay in the contest. <sigh> I suspect that W is trying to get away without paying the pet deposit. Fortunately, it's not my problem.

It was very very lonely coming back to my house last night - after midnight with the second load.

I don't want to live alone. I know that for sure. I had to resist the urge to call my w in the middle of the night. I can fully understand the rebound reflex.

At least I drove over to see my bro briefly last night. But, I've got to crank up a lot more social stuff.

Church on Sunday for sure. I used to be s morning and night guy. I've been afraid of having to explain. But now, I have decided to go back to my old church. There are a lot of people there who have been my friends. It doesn't make sense to abandon them. I think now, that it will actually be good to explain (lightly) to some people. I expect I'll get some invitations out of it. I definitely need the social contacts. If I find it uncomfortable there, after a few months, I'll look for another church. They have a gym too.

Well, now I've got to go figure out why the mower won't start - and if I do, load it up and go mow at the other house.

=AD

Well I didn't make it to church. I was watching the huricane coverage on TV. I have some relatives down there on the coast. I'm about 300 miles north.

W and I had planned to get together and make sure she is ready for her citizenship interview. She came over here (I didn't want to come to her place). I found a copy of my birth certificate and our marriage certificate for her. I think she has everthing she needs.

I'll drive her over there tomorow afternoon. Hopefully the storm will be north of us by then.

So, after we got her papers together, she was just talking to me and hanging around. I said to her "If I had a majic potion that would make any woman fall in love with me, I would give it to you." She asked "Not Cindy Crawford?". I replied "Who's Cindy Crawford?".

A while later, she was laying on the floor of DD's room and DD was playing doctor with her. She looked gooood!, LOL. She began a sentence with "if we stay married...". She does that from time to time. I called her on it. I told her that if we stay married, it's not going to be because of some passing hint. It's going to be a a very serious discussion with serious commitments made. "I know", she said. She finished her sentence, "If we stay married, we should move to some other city." She mentioned a city I had suggested to her before - where my company has an office. I told her that for me to move would be a big commitment on my part - and that I was not going to do that unless I were convinced that this was a long term commitment. She said she understood - just felt that if we stay married, it has to be like a new marriage - with everything new. I told her that if we did move to that city, we would not buy a house there, but would rent - and probably I would keep my house here and rent it out. I didn't say so, but this little chat doesn't change my course at all. Honestly, I still think we will file within a few weeks.

She dropped the subject ... and soon went home. I let her take my laundry to wash. Why not? I'm going to drive her to Atlanta tomorrow, so she might as well do something for me.

-AD

AD... did you read TMCM's thread about his friend?

I think you're doing very well.

GC

GC,

Thanks for dropping in on my blog. It often seems that nobody reads. Not much action here. No drama.

Yeah, I read TMCM's piece. That's great for his friend! Some guys win, others lose.

I'm not hoping for anything much. Why is it that I'm the one who's supposed to jump through hoops? I'm not dead set on staying in this city all my life (was born here), but I have friends, family and connections here - and it's a nice place to live. I like it. So, I'm supposed to pull up and move - just so she can "start over" in a new place - without having to face all the embarrasing stuff - and probably in a different court environment - maybe not so good for me if we D. If we move, and then D, OM can move out there and be with her and she won't run into people who know her.

She actually said (while trying to make it sound unimportant), that she doesn't want to live here - and figured it woudle be easier to move now together, than to move after we D. Because if she tried to move after the D, I would protest - and the court would decide if she could move DD or not. So, that would mean if we moved and D'ed later, she would have a stake in teh ground there, and I wouldn't be able to move back here without messing up my visitation with my daughter.

Anyway, she may be thinking a bit, but more likely, she just wanted to know if I would say "No way! We are gettting D'ed!" Now, she knows I'm still on the shelf and she can pull me off and keep me if she decides to.

I better sleep. Tomorrow will be a long day.

-AD

AD,
I know the courts don't take A's into account, I was just ranting. Haven't we come to an interresting place in this modern world. If you don't keep your part of a business agreement, you can go to jail for fraud. If you don't keep your marriage vows, that's fine, tearing the family apart is fine, causing your spouse emotional distress if fine, whatever you want is AOK if your feelings change. Just say the magic words "I don't love him any more, I love someone else," and you can get away with anything, and often the BS even pays for it.

Ok, end of rant. Sorry.

You seem to be doing really good emotionally these days compared to where you were a few months ago. Is it an act, or are you really doing well?

SS

Thought I'd mention to you AD...I read, but really just haven't had any good advice to offer to you. But I do hope that things work out the best way possible for you!