OH MY LORD!! It has been so long since I've been on here, but I have been up to a LOT and something has come up on which I would like your opinions.

Okay, where to start...let's see...I'm no longer living in Colorado, but have taken the big plunge of moving to a completely new place to start my own whole life. I'm in the Pacific Northwest now, and I have to say I LOVE IT!!! It is humid here and the flowers and trees are like tropical gardens. I'm within a few hours of either the ocean or a mountain, so I have the VERY best of both worlds there. I missed the ocean SO MUCH you can't imagine!

Here's how this all came about. I had been looking for a regular-type 8to5 job in Colorado for many months, and it was quite depressing to me that someone as qualified as I am could go months without so much as a nibble. Now, I managed to get by on little jobs and projects and writing manuals and helping people with bookkeeping, but it never felt "dependable" and I was mostly just barely making it. Anyway, I have a friend out here in the Pacific Northwest, and suggested that I try applying for jobs out here because there seemed to be a need for what I can do (sort of administrative/office manager stuff). Well, sure enough, I applied and got nibbles and interviews, etc. RIGHT AWAY!!

Within about two weeks of trying, I got an interview at a business that I am literally CRAZY for (I would work here for free, I like it so much), and the job is basically "Hey, FNCJ, you run the office and conduct all the accounting and recordkeeping and secretarial stuff...okay?" I have two little gals that help me out (a receptionist and kind of a data entry/database gal), and I literally could not love this job more!!

Now, moving out of Colorado was QUITE A SHOCK to my exH (Mr. Bipolar Control Freak)! My OS was 18yo at the time (has turned 19yo now) and he just decided that if I was going to move, it was time for him to move out--and he was completely cool with it. He's living with several buddies of his in California--sort of a "bachelor-pad" lifestyle--and I'm sure he's getting into all kinds of single-19yo-guy trouble, but we write everyday and talk, and he sounds happy being out on his own. My YD is 16yo and at first my exH was freaking out that I was taking her away, etc. But then I explained that the price he was paying me for CS and our business, he could apply to flying her out to stay with him--and that's twice a month for 3-day weekends plus holidays! Suddenly, he was fine with it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> She has spent her summer visiting with her friends, her dad, her relatives (aunts, cousins, gramma) and she is just tickled to death. Even the animals are adjusting! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

So, that's a pretty major update, huh?? I didn't have internet at first for a while, but (thank God) I'm back online now, and hope to upgrade from dial-up to DSL pretty soon--we'll see how those paychecks hold out!

HERE'S THE "I NEED YOUR OPINIONS" PART:

As you oldie folks who know me may remember, I have been seeing a fella, and all is pretty cool on that front. The more I get to know of him, the more I like him and respect him and value him, and I think for the first time in my life it's a mutual and healthy relationship. Well, at least that's what we are really trying hard to accomplish! We both know the MB concepts and go over ENs and LBs regularly, and in the "getting to know each other" phase of dating, we did the Personal History (boy! you learn a lot about a person if you do a thorough job!)--plus we're trying to use healthy boundaries and more mature anger techniques...basically all that stuff that the old exH would not even CONSIDER doing!! Plus, we are compatible Myers-Briggs (I'm INFP, he's INTP) so we speak the same language, and that is SO MUCH EASIER!! Here's the thing I can't quite see clearly...

Yesterday, we agreed that he'd do this certain thing involving money--and it ended up that he didn't do that plus he ended up completely doing something different. Now, I'm not inflexible, but it was like dominoes: this changed, so this changed, so this changed...and pretty soon he never did the original thing, the money wasn't used how we agreed, and we didn't have what he used it on nor the original! Does that make sense? I felt like that broke some trust because he agreed to do "A" and he did "B" instead--and to me trust is when your words and actions match. The good news is that he didn't lie about it or act all defensive...he was a little scared to tell me, but he was honest and I appreciated that.

Then later the same night, there was an issue that I thought was long gone and settled between him and his exW, and out of the clear blue he brought it back up again. Now, I realize that things do resurface, but this one was the kind of issue after which I felt really unsettled, vulnerable and frankly insecure, and I had thought it was done with so I was unprepared to see it coming. It completely threw me for a loop, and I take full responsibility for that.

Here's my question. I have never been in a "healthy" relationship before and I can't tell if I'm sort of obsessing and over-analyzing and behaving co-dependently, or what? I would say it's fairly clear that some of my boundaries were crossed, and I'm confident I can figure those out and speak up about that--but I don't feel confident that I can tell if I'm slipping into old habits I had in my previous, VERY unhealthy marriage. And if I am, I want to do something now to stop myself and get back into alignment with myself.

So, what do you think?



FNCJ

Hiya CJ ~

I'm so glad to hear all your good news dear =)

How about if you try some honesty with him about how the made you feel?

His reaction should be pretty telling!

Oh yeah I guess I should add...

It doesn't matter how you SHOULD feel about this.

It's what you DO feel...and how the 2 of you decide to deal with it that counts.

So tell him about the real CJ's feelings and all the nicks and cracks and dings that make you unique!

Must have felt a callin' if I am up at this time of night 'er.....mornin'!

You sound pretty darned healthy to me! You've come a long way baby!



Talk with him, tell him how it made you feel and go from there.

Mr. Ragamuffin and I will be having our third anniversary next month and I DO understand how important it for me to be honest and open about my fears (triggers).

From your ENFP buddy!

P.S. Thanks for sending me a change of address card! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Seej

I know little of boundaries, but what I learned of the value of personal boundaries I learned largely from you.

I believe there should be no rush to unite funding etc. Finacial co-dependency make emotional independence more diffcult, even though you are both arriving in the new relationship with skills of marriagebuilding your didn't have before.

So my opinions for what they're worth is that FIRSTLY joint money stuff is a burden you don't need yet, especially as there are unresolved 'ex' issues around.

And secondly POJA is an ongoing dialog. Your feller could have kept you informed along the way as plans were forced to change. This works with Squid and I - even if the outcome of a plan is less that we expect at least the air is let out of the balloon gradually, owing to constant POJA updates not with a pop, so no surprises.

Don't let your love make you compromise over your personal and emotional safety darl.

Slowly slowly, catchee monkey.

{{{{{{seej}}}}}

CJ

Without some detailed information, it's difficult to speculate on what's going on. But there are some possibilities.

1) That he's subconsciously testing your boundaries, to see how much pressure he can put on you, and what your reaction is when he does. This might be the kind of thing that happens when someone is thinking about moving the relationship to a new stage. He may be trying to provoke you to give himself an 'out'.

2) That this is the 'real' him coming out, which can happen if someone has kept up a fake front for a while. How long has this relationship been going for?

3) That he made a genuine error of judgement, and then went into a panic in case it pissed you off and he lost you.

4) That he screwed up, and knows it, and tried to deflect you by raising an issue he knew would disturb you. Possibly this kind of distracting manoeuvre is part of his coping strategies for life that you will have to include in your calculations about a future with him.

In any case, it's a red flaglet - whether bright red or pale pink, who can know? Give it time; time will tell whether this is an out-of-character blip or typical behaviour.

Incidentally, was he the WS or the BS in his marriage?

TogetherAlone

CJ... hello! And congratulations!

I agree with Bob. Wouldn't this kind of problem not exist if your finances were distinct?

GC

Hey, folks!

Well, wait a few days and they come out of the woodwork, huh? It's good to see you all again: BrambleRose, Ragamuffin, BP, TogetherAlone, and GC. Bramble--I really treasure your thoughts on this one because I know that you know what I'm talking about. Muffin--the change of address card is in the mail (heehee). Actually, I'm just getting to a place where things have settled down enough to take a breath...they're coming. Bob--just for your peace of mind, this isn't a "mixed funds" kind of thing as you'll see below. This was a lack of communicatioin thing mostly, and some of that is due to the fact that his cell is in the shop busted. See below and tell me whatcha think. TogetherAlone--I gotta say, I love your name and felt that way many time with my exH. I would say that this was a mix of your #3 and #4 in that I could see him having coping mechanisms along that line; however, to his credit those are the exact issues that he is currently working on and making good efforts to change. Like Bob, I say see below and let me know whatcha think. And Gray--Love ya! It's good to read your campfire thread, and I'm glad to see you're moving along just we're all moving along.

* * * * *

Okay, I was trying to a be a little vague on purpose because I thought the CONCEPT might apply to others even if the little exact details were different in their life. Anyway, here's a little more detail so you can form a more thorough opinion:

He has his money and I have my money. I am currently operating on the "pay off a few bills" mode and living on a fairly strict budget. He is also on a single father budget--so you'all know what I mean! We just don't have a ton of "extra" money that we use for going out or treating ourself. So that day he had a couple nickles to rub together and asked if I'd like to do something, and I suggested that I'd just as soon buy some nice steaks or something at the grocery store and cook 'em on the grill. He agreed to that suggestion, and the plan was to buy some "fancy" groceries. Well, he ran into a fella downtown (yay!) and they ended up going to the pub and having something to eat and a beer. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So now you see my dilemna. On the one hand I felt bad because we don't usually have the extra to have a nice little date, and I was under the impression we were finally going to get to have something special. On the other hand, it seems reasonable to me for a person to run into a buddy and have lunch and whatnot with his own money.

In the end, he was a little scared to tell me because he knew I'd be disappointed, but to his credit, he spoke right up and was completely open about it. So that part at least was very good, and I was proud of him for that. And I don't think I took it badly or was immature about it (you can ask him)--yep, I was disappointed, but decided to just talk through my feelings and we reached a new agreement and understanding for situations like that.

The part I'm just somewhat foggy on is where is the line of co-dependent behavior and healthy behavior in a situation like this? To me, co-dependent behavior is when you try to control things and prevent someone from doing what is their responsibility to do; healthy behavior would be something else but I'm not sure what exactly. I'm trying to keep myself accountable to myself, but I'm unclear where it's control and where it respect and a request I guess. I don't know. My head hurts!! WAAAAHHH



FNCJ

CJ dear ~

It's not really about money is it? You are right, its HIS money and he should decide how he spend it.

I'm guessing that your problem is really that you 2 had an agreement to go out and do something special before he ran into the friend, and he "broke his promise" by spending the money he needed to make good on his agreement with you.

I think he is impulsive and and rather careless of your feelings - since the polite thing would have been to call you up and say - honey, I know we said we'd do XYZ tonight, but I just ran into my friend and I'd like to do lunch instead - how about a raincheck on our night?

His honesty afterwards was at least refreshing! And this incident just provides you with data about him that you need to decide how much farther you want to go in the relationship.

It is co-dependent to expect him to change. It is codependent to attempt to fix him and straighten him out.

You aren't married to him, you are dating him.

It is healthy to assess him in as many sitautions as you need - thats what dating is! - and make a decision as to what role, if any, you will allow him to play in your life.

Thats drawing a healthy boundary.

It's up to you decide if you want someone in your life that is lacking in courteousy and makes decisions impulsively without considering his prior obligations.

Was this just a stupid mistake or a character issue? Thats why you date - to find out =)

CJ, I got to know before we go any further with this, are you sharing a residence with this fine man?

Big Brother Billy, says STRIKE TWO........... Presuming this is the same dude that chose to excessively drink before an encounter with you before and then came on here saying he rarely ever drinks. If you are "exclusively dating" or perhaps sharing a domicile, then independent behavious such as this ought to bodly wave the good ole Red Flag.

Did you get the Quote of the Day from Michele? If you did, file it away, I pray that you never need it, but if you should don't be afraid to swallow...........

PS......You may remind Northern Dude that your Eastern Brutha has already made a reservation for him with a size 12 if he hurts my #1 one Short Western one......LOL....

Hmmmmm....

CJ ~ If what Bill is saying is true, I think you need to raise the bar on what you deserve in your life.

BrambleRose nailed it.

It does sound like he doesn't do what he says he will do. A person like that is hard to live with long term. Heck, short term.

Read the posts you have so far again, then tell us what you think.

SS

Hey CJ,
Reading your first post, it was impossible to formulate an opinion. But after you clarified it makes so much more sense. It's not really about money at all.

To add another perspective, I'd be willing to bet a great deal of money (if I did that kind of thing) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> that LH would not even consider doing that to me. Not only because it's a pretty inconsiderate thing to do, but because he would be EXCITED about the little date night himself. He would value that special night together and value my feelings more than the lunch with his friend. (Now if I ever have to eat my words, you'll be the first to know! LOL)

Obviously, it's not like anyone would say "dump him!" over this one incident. But I would say that you should watch to see if it's a pattern. If so, it will show up in all kinds of little ways. LITTLE being the key word. I'd hope he wouldn't do anything as noticeable as he just did for a while, not if he's smart! But look for it in the little day to day things and obviously, the next time (if there is a next time) he does something like this again, I'd be very worried.

Actually, to be honest, I'd be pretty worried right now. Don't second guess your instincts on this. I know how it is to think "well maybe I'm making too big of a deal out of this" or "I'm just being paranoid and controlling". I really think you guys need to sit down and have a talk about this, and that it should not be over until you both feel totally satisfied with the outcome of the conversation/s.

Hugs.

I'll finish the senctence: There will be 2 x 4's coming my way.



[color:"red"] Grrrrrrrrrrr, BIG RED FLAG. [/color]

I'm with you Bill on this one and you can add a size 5 to his 12 for good measure!

I have read all your wise words and am letting it rumble around in my head a bit.

From BR: Seems like he's impulsive and careless with my feelings. Codependence is expecting him to change; healthy is assessing where he's at right now and deciding if that's something I'm want in my life.

From LH: Strike Two; red flag waving.

From ss: Doesn't sound like he does what he says he will do.

From FW: Look for a pattern in the little day-to-day things; trust your instincts.

I will get back to you'all but I do want to dwell on it a little first. Thanks!!



FNCJ

P.S. For enquiring minds, the answer is NO.

Hey, don't forget Rags, she's standing next to me waiving her own Red Flag..

Hey rags, is that silk, that's a nice flag.....

And CJ, with the move and all I had to ask to get a better perspective on what the situation is.....ya know...

CJ

If what Bill says is accurate, then there's a hint that BF has a habit of thinking that he can get away with selfish behaviour by apologising later. The 'apology' is built into his impulsiveness. It suggests he's used to charming his way past a woman's disappointment.

What's your boundary here? That if he makes a committment he sticks to it? That if there's a trend of him breaking committments then being very apologetic about it, you will consider him unreliable and relegate him to the 'Nice Friend but not Marriage Material' bin?

What he did wasn't honest. He made a promise then broke it. He should know that you are now looking at this as a possible MO. Amd you need to factor this behavioral style into your assessment of him, as Bramble Rose said.

TogetherAlone

PS,
From worried ones -
GOOD!

SS

OK, all seriousness aside for a moment..... ((((CJ)))) After the last incident when Bumper so brilliantly hung the red boxers from the flag pole, you expressed this to the fella:



Does that in anyway express what you are feeling like about the current situation? OK, I'm going to quit being that little thorn in your side now and give you some time to digest all this.

And BTW, you still got my number even if you got them all jumbled up, my cell is the one that ends in 5567......

You betcha! Red flags are plentiful here..... [color:"red"] Go Big Red Sound familiar?

CJ, you know your stuff girl, I know you do!