No offense but you are being a [censored] to believer with your last line.




Ah but it seems like you didn't care that they did get hurt. And by that I mean you don't care that your husband x wife did get hurt.


No one on this board has ever said they are blameless for the demise for the relationship, what every therapist will say is that you shouldn't take responsibility for the wayward spouses affair.





Oh my dear you are so wrong, 80% of all marriages suffer infidelity and at least 1 in 5 kids born in america and western europe is that of outerwedlock, 1 in 3 kids born in flordia are of outer wedlock.



You are right you never said it wasn't wrong but you have never said what you did was wrong! I'm not here to beat you up on this.


Look I really think loverfirst that you are just being a trigger for justpeachy anger. Another thing that you are doing is it seems that you are trying to justify the affair you had. Which is really what seems to be pissing justpeachy off the most. Of course you are flaunting your affair marriage in front of betrayed spouse that is still recoverying from it so.......

LF your posts REEK of rationalization, entitlement and justification.

To many of us our marriage vows cannot be personally amended to say " till death,or until boredom, dissatisfaction or the finding of a new 'soul mate' and great screw do us part."

Your attitude gives permission for disaffected spouses to seek affairs.

Where you and I disagree is in the purpose of marriage.

Marriage is not supposed to make you happy, its supposed to make you MARRIED. - happiness is one outcome that has to be worked on like many others.

Marriage is a framework for living. And a Godly one, if that is important to you.

Cheating is a poisonous manifestation of the lack of understanding of that principle IMO.

What sickens ME is I would belive someone with your views had you left the marriage DECENTLY through divorce FIRST before any cheating and THEN found your 'soul mate'.

But the lying and screwing ALWAYS happens before you folks are dissatisfied enough to leave the marriage. Cowardice and self protection. Yuk.

Your poor BH doing his best for you while you found a slightly better bus to hop on.

We willnever agree.

Do I sense more than a little disrespect here? Some of y'all, and you know who you are, need to get a grip and have a reality check.

C
You reply to me but I do not see how my posts wer edisrespectful.

It is not disrespectful to call a liar and liar, or a cheat a cheat.

if you'd like to call me out on my disrespect, please so do and I can learn from it.

Right now I stand by every word.

Actually Noliving I am on this thread to give another side to the issue. It would be folly of anyone to believe what peachy says and live their life waiting for their ex's relationship to fail. Her life certainly isn't a shining example of how to succeed in a relationships! Quite the opposite. She is always calling names and blasting anyone who sees things differently than her. You'd think she sits on the Supreme Court by the amount of "judgements" she passes out! LOL I find it hilarious and utterly rude at the same time. She doesn't kinow me. Lots of "good" people, who have never so much as lied to their spouse make the mistake of getting involved with someone prior to divorce. Those are the type that learn from their mistakes, and rather rapidly. My affair did not last long at all, especially the physical part, before I confessed to my then H and asked for a separation to get my head together. There's lots more to the story, which I won't go into, but *I* know that I did everything I could for YEARS to make that marriage work. There comes a point where you stop banging your head and step away from the wall. My ex on the otherhand didn't do much at all for the relationship until it was too late. Then he wanted to change! Right. All these years later, and he still hasn't made those changes.

"No offense but you are being a [censored] to believer with your last line."

None taken. Why, because I was truthful? We are meant for one antoher and I just can't take that as an insult no matter how I try. I did wish for her to find that same happiness and love I have found.

"Ah but it seems like you didn't care that they did get hurt. And by that I mean you don't care that your husband x wife did get hurt."

Ah but you need to watch your assumptions. I very much cared. You have no idea what I went through to try not to hurt my ex and his ex. Can I ask why you assumed that? What did I say that lead to down the wrong path?

"No one on this board has ever said they are blameless for the demise for the relationship, what every therapist will say is that you shouldn't take responsibility for the wayward spouses affair"

Very true! An affair is only the decision of the two involved. No one else has culpability. I didn't say the affair now did I? I said the relationship. Believe me, there are worse things a person can do to you than have an affair. And an affair is far from the only thing that ever ends marriages. I doubt it's the top 3! Don't quote me on that as I haven't checked stats. Also, I wasn't referring to the members on this BOARD.

My whole point on the infidelity statement was NOT the percentage of people having them. It was that there is no guarantees that even if you marry someone who hasn't had an affair prior, doesn't mean they won't! It's a risk everyone takes in an intimate relationship.

Actually, I think I said somewhere in the post or another post it was wrong. Very wrong. Wouldn't recommend it to anyone. I had a very hard time with what I had done. That doesn't mean that I am going to berate myself till the day I die. God has forgiven me and I have finally forgiven myself. And frankly, that's all that matters. I am at peace with it.

My intent was not to flaunt my marriage. It was, and is, to make people think. It is a waste of time and effort to wait for someone to fail at something...anything.

If you want to be technical, all marriages where one partner has an affair and they stay together are "affair marriages", because their marriage had an affair in it at one time.

Can I ask you why the totally negative name? It reflects your state of mind and perpetuates that negativity. Just like a smile will ultimately sink into your heart, a positive, uplifting name will help you be more positive in your daily life. Think about changing it. What about LifesWorthLiving?

Cinderella,

You are one of the women on here who I would love to meet! You are classy, smart and caring. It comes through in all of your posts. You've always been like that. Although I only ready this site maybe 3x a year, I can always count of getting something out of your words.

Take care and all the best to you and yours.

"Anyway, it's fun talking with the aliens now and then.

Hey Orchid? Redhat? Bob Pure?

WE HAVE ALIENS IN DATING AND DIVORCED! "

Typical peachy, so typical of you. How does it feel to be so vile??

It's Mrs. to you! Thanks.

"If you don't like my posts, then why in the hell read them? It is unfortunate your stance on some issues...

And yes, I had EVERY right to be feeling as I had felt. "

Because in a sick way they are entertaining. I've told many a joke about the wacko poster filled with bittness on MB to my friends!!

I only posted the CS information to make sure you knew it in case you will be affected next year. I didn't do it to "get under you skin"! Geez. Sharing important, possibly lifestyle changing information is now bad??

"I am wondering...maybe your h's xw is getting more than you think she should? "

Totally true. The CS award is far more than it takes to raise a child. She's been living off of other people her entire life. Too lazy to work. That will be changing. CS is for the children, not hidden alimony, or upperclass welfare. It's just not right or just to use anyone for a slave.

Okay, I give up! I can't even read all of your post. To wordy. You have been nasty and justifying it from day one. How long has it been now?? You aren't any further along out of your vile rut then when you started posting here. Sad peach, just plain sad. Don't pat yourself on the back for being kind to fv unless you've confessed and apologized for all the mean, hateful things you have called her on this site. You still continue to call her little girl names. Sick.

Until you change peachy you'll NEVER, EVER find happiness and true love. It's got to start from within dear.

Hate to break it to you, but there is such a thing as two people totally made for each other. Totally compatible. So much so that they don't have to "work" on a marriage nearly as hard as others. It's a Blessing and I thank God for his Blssings daily. I truly wish everyone could find their perfect match!!!

Bob,
A person's marriage IS supposed to make you happy!!! Why would you want to short yourself on that goal. It sounds like you are confusing internal happiness with married happiness. It is two different things. If my dear husband were to pass away tomorrow, I would still have internal happiness...although I'm sure I'd not feel it for a long time. Two people being together is meant to bring you great joys!

"What sickens ME is I would belive someone with your views had you left the marriage DECENTLY through divorce FIRST before any cheating and THEN found your 'soul mate'."

WOW! Can we say personal issues?? You don't know me dear. What sickens you is that you are terribly unhappy with your current circumstances. Do you have the ability to understand the concept that a person doesn't choose when you meet your perfect match? My mistake was to act upon it prior to separating. You don't choose when you will meet your perfect match. In fact, most people on the planet never do.

You sound like you are having a very hard time. Wishing you much better days and times ahead sweetie.

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Second, the kids are much better than they were before the divorce. They have said many times to all family members that it was a relief when their parents divorced. A home environment that is filled with fighting and stress is NOT beneficial to children...ever. The betrayed spouses, did get hurt.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting thread.

While I have to say my whole family is much better off since my X took the selfish route and walked out the door. I have to say it was still not right, God just turned it around for me to give me some happines that I never had.

It's sure nice that X and OW are happy while I deal with all the fallout. For them to be happy MANY, MANY people had to suffer and STILL suffer.

3 years after X left, my 20 YO daughter still breaks out in tears. Recently, on fathers day the minister made a comment in his sermon how he was happy to see so many Godly men there with their families. Daughter had to leave the sanctuary as she started crying. She stopped playing her flute in church Christmas eve after X left, started crying right up on the podium and never picked up the flute again.

He wasnt the for her prom
when her best friend died
when son got his driving lisence
on and on

he was too busy being happy. While I picked up the pieces for my kids

While we are much better off and are much happier and peaceful IT WONT EVER BE RIGHT

and I dont believe there is such a thing as incompatibility. I think that's an excuse for selfishness, One or both are too selfish to work to make the marriage work. And all marriages are work, that is why certain WS spouses are here as well as BS.

enough for now
be nice

.

LF your vulgar patronising of me does not disguise your rationalisation of infidelity IMO. of COURSE You think YOUR sit wasn't infidelity. If it was that would make you guilty of a bad thing, and you can;t face that. So you didn't have an affair, you found your soul mate and had no choice but to sleep with him behind your H's back.

Deja Moo. That is, I heard that bull before.

The concept that marriage of itself is not designed to make you happy is not mine -I am not wise enough alas to invent such - but Dr. Harley in Surviving An Affair, who in turn was referencing previous academic works on marriage.

WOW! Can we say personal issues??

Don't we all have our personal issues, ma'm ?

I have my issues, but a lack of commitment and integrity are not included amongst them.

You don't know me dear.

Correct. I only know that you stayed in your marriage using your poor H while you found a better bet for your pleasure and happiness. Then you justify it. And I am sure I am not'dear' to you.

What sickens you is that you are terribly unhappy with your current circumstances.

M'am you don't know me as I do not know you. You do not know what sickens me apart from what I told you.

I would have chosen that my wife had not had an affair, and that she did made me very unhappy. But that we are rebuilding a wonderful new relationship, love each other and are a great parenting team once more despite our mistakes makes me very happy indeed. For 17 of our 18 years together we were very happy. For 6 months before and after her affair we were very unhappy.

Right now we probably have a better relationship than we ever have. So my situation doesn't sicken me.
Do you have the ability to understand the concept that a person doesn't choose when you meet your perfect match?

Maybe you are right and I am too stupid to understand this complex construct.

How many affairs do you have to have in order to meet your perfect match ? What if this man you have now bores you and a newer younger, richer, more interesting version becomes available ? And then ? And then ?

The search for a perfect 'soul mate' is a romatic impractical dream in concept, and the foundation for a perpetually dissappointed, unfaithful life in practice IME.

OM in my sit was three times divorced, a series of affairs. he told me he was 'searching for his soul mate'. Tens of women tested in his search for a soul mate.
He must have destroyed ten marriages in seeking for his 'perfect soul mate' and * this * close to destroying mine.

Would you defend that LF ? Or are you different because you only destroyed two marriages to find your soul mate ?

In truth his inability to work on his relationships was made into a communicable disease.

I've told many a joke about the wacko poster filled with bittness on MB to my friends!!

Shame on you.

Loversfirst1997,
You know - you really are something else - you talk about peachy and her judgements and her namecalling - what are you doing??? You are justifying and validating an affair. I just don't get it. You chose to cheat - you chose to end your marriage - there are good people on her fighting to save theirs after the ultimate betrayal. And yes it is the ultimate betrayal. I've been there - I know. Go ahead and say that I am unhappy and that is why I don't understand. I can tell you my ex left me for a woman young enough to be his daughter - I never cheated - loved him for 30 years and he did this to me. I was not happy in my marriage - I thought that I could be - and that's why I stayed - I had children and I loved him - he never saw it that way and I know in my heart if he had things would be entirely different. So I sit here watching him do things for her he would never do for me or with me. Now is it because she's his soul mate??? No - he has been so obsessed with her he would do anything to keep her. Even refuse to go to his own daughter's wedding because of a guest that was invited who this ow had a fling with. But I am happy - you know why? I waited until my marriage was over and I was divorced and found a wonderful man who loves me for who I am and treats me the way a man should treat a woman. And I am happy - is my ex - I don't think so - but can you really trust someone who cheated with you? Maybe - but it sure doesn't appear that way. I like Dr. Phil's adage - if they will do it with you they will do it to you. Now maybe that won't happen in your case - I hope that it doesn't - am I hoping it does in my exes case??? Not really but I can tell you if it did I wouldn't be unhappy about it, there aren't many BS's that wouldn't see justice in a failed relationship like theirs. He asked me that once - you would love it if I ended up with her and she cheated on me - well duh!!! Even my therapist said of course you would!! That was a few years ago and I'm not as adamant about it.
I am hoping that you don't have to come here as a bs - I guess I'm not real sure why you are here at all.

Peachy,
My ex did the same to me - everything was my fault - and I believed him - it has taken a lot of soul searching and a great relationship to make me see different. I have taken my blame in the demise of my marriage but I never cheated and I will always be proud of that.

I have to wonder why everyone 'assumes' she was out looking for her soulmate when she had an affair.

And as she has said, SHE TRIED to make her marriage work even AFTER the affair, She apparently CONFESSED the affair, unlike many WS, where the BS finds little things not adding up and realize There is an affair going on and then they are lied to about the truth.

She apparently didn't LIE to her husband about it, she confessed, and turned away from it, yet her husband didn't see a need to change the circumstances within their marriage that led to her choice to have an affair (wrong as it may have been) until she filed for divorce. It's apparent that he realized SHE was serious about things needing to change in the marriage in order for her to WANT to remain married to him even though she ENDED the affair, but he didn't see that UNTIL after the marriage was over. And probably based on past experience with him saying HE would change now, she didn't trust his word. Because of his lies of the past, he already broke the trust.


And as she hasn't re-posted information based on her sitch at the time or the sitch of the OM, how do you know OM's wife wasn't cheating on him? Or that he hadn't already filed for divorce before he met her? (it's speculation on our part to assume either way).

Many of you sit here and say "Cheaters will cheat again", so why do you bother working to SAVE YOUR marriages with a spouse who has made the choice to cheat once? I mean, if Cheaters (by your belief)WILL CHEAT again what makes you think your spouses will be any different than the rest of the cheaters you sit in judgement of saying they WILL Cheat again?

Why should she trust that her husband wasn't lying to her that he would change, if he had lied to her about that in the past?

This poster has already acknowledged her choices were wrong,
I don't see that as her making justification or even excuses. And I do agree with her, that God forgives, and as she has apparently asked God's forgiveness, He has already forgiven her, whether any of YOU think she deserves it or not.

But before you cast that judgement that she or ANY cheater doesn't deserve forgiveness, take a look in the mirror, NONE OF US, whether we have EVER told a lie, cheated, stolen anything (even a pen from work or time on the computer posting here when your supposed to be at work getting paid for WORKING and not being paid to surf or post here), lusted after ANYONE (even before marriage) coveted something that WE didn't have be it a new car, a job promotion, a new house, a spouse, a boyfriend or girlfriend in your youth, put your job or your spouse, or your kids, or anything before GOD HIMSELF, whatever, NONE OF US DESERVE God's Forgiveness. But that God is gracious and Mericful He extends that forgiveness even though we don't deserve it and when we confess those things we are also supposed to REPENT and turn away from those things.

Which SHE apparently did, even to the point of not seeing the man, and yet even with all that time apart and growth, they still ended up togehter, so how do you know it wasn't God, who in the end, actually did bring them back together? After they both grew and learned from the mistakes of their past?

And just as Mrs. FV has apparently learned from her past mistake of getting involved with a Married man, and is just now beginning to make changes within herself, and Peachy is willing to extend a helping hand to her and offer forgiveness, I think the same needs to be done for this poster.

Maybe you could actually learn A LOT from this poster by finding out what SHE learned about herself through her choices and what brought about her changes so that she is confident that this marriage is different than her last one, and not that this man is her 'soulmate' but more because she learned many things about herself that she changed inwardly
that no matter what her inward changes have been her last marriage wouldn't have lasted anyway.

Much like your own marriages, if you don't figure out what you are doing or aren't doing in your marriages that caused your spouse to believe that having an affair actually sounded like a great choice, maybe things will change within your marriages.

And if you find as in some cases (like peachy's whose ex is a serial cheater) and no amount of changes you could make within yourself or within your marriage would cause those choices to be different, then let the person go and move on with your life and realize that it's NOT about you, but the other person and their inner demons.

But stop judging others based on their past choices that they have apparently learned from.

If this poster would get hurling insults and telling other people to be ashamed of how they feel then maybe I would feel different.

I don't know if she was out looking - but she found it at the expense of two marriages and numerous children. And she is still badmouthing her husband's ex wife. Why??? Is that another way to justify her infedelity with him? Or his with her?

I understand that these things happen - but this is supposed to be a marriage building site - not oh - I had an affair and have married him so don't be happy when your exes marriage with the OW falls apart. That is human nature to feel that way and I don't know many of us that wouldn't feel that way. But she is saying that it's wrong - now if she was not in the situation she is in would she feel that way???

You're right - we done know all the facts regarding her marriage and why she ended up where she did - so maybe she'll enlighten us and maybe she has learned from her past - which is wonderful - but if she has then quit bashing other people.

Sunrise,
From your story you've had a tough time with divorce. What you are assuming is that everyone is like you and your ex and children. Relationships are all different. You can never paint any two with the same brush. My experience and those I love has been totally different than yours. Try not to project and you might understand what I was trying to convey. Hugs for all your pain.

Bob,
You, sir, need help. Your anger comes through the www. A therapist can help. How can you justify in your mind being so rude to a complete stranger?? And you THINK you are so moral. Sure.


Happy,
"You know - you really are something else - you talk about peachy and her judgements and her namecalling - what are you doing???"

I'm giving the peach just a little of what she has dished out to many, many others for as long as she's been on this site. Also giving a different perspective on what she wrote. She is dead wrong on advising anyone to wait for their ex's relationship to end to gain "peace".

Regarding the betrayal part. I've been there too. The difference is, I refused to stay the victim. I am sorry for your 30 year failed marriage. I can't even imagine it. That's a lot of time to put into a relationship to have the guy leave you for a person so much younger than he is! I have never understood people who are so far apart in age getting together. I don't see how they have anything in common. I'd bet they don't make if for too long, just because of the age difference.

Let me point out the folly to Dr. Phil's advice. First, none, not one of his collegues respects him. Second, the advice you quoted would mean that he doesn't think that any relationship, where one has cheated, will ever be without cheating. Reality and facts tell you that is a false statement. I know when I read on this board years ago, there were many marriages who had put the affair behind them and were doing MUCH BETTER than preaffair days.


TRose,
What? Is that a breeze of fresh air I feel??!! YES IT IS! You understand totally. It's great to see that some people can "listen" to others experiences and not judge or convey their feelings or emotions.

"I have to wonder why everyone 'assumes' she was out looking for her soulmate when she had an affair"

You are correct. The LAST thing on my mind was finding anyone! At that time I would have laughed you out of the room, and then been very insulted had you said I would have an affair. Wasn't in my universe to even entertain. Now that doesn't mean I am totally inocent. I'm not. I made the wrong decision and got myself into an area that I will always regret and be very vigilent to never approach again.

It's pretty amazing the insight you have on this! Blows me away. You decribed my ex to a "T". Plus there is some additional ughly details I never talk about.

Your post brought tears to my eyes and a swelling of my heart at your kindness and understanding of a stranger. Thank you. True Christians always shine above everyone else!!!

It seems I'm not doing any positive things here, even though that was my main intent. I will stop posting on this thread unless someone has something they'd like to ask me.

Something I wanted to wrap up before a comment is made or question asked. That is about the CS laws in GA changing and my backing of that change. Actually, I did a lot of lobbying for the new law. The main reason was for equity and fairness to fathers and their children. Divorce is tough enough, kids don't deserve to have the government kick their Dad out of their lives. While I realize that there are fathers who do walk away, I know many who were thrown out of their kids lives, kicking and screaming.

Part of why the new law passed was because of the gross injustice of some CS awards. I know of more than a few that would make your jaw drop to the floor! The award my husband's ex got is a prime example. 7K a month for a single healthy child. She lives off of her child's money. It is true that my H and I make very good money,(close to 450K last year)that doesn't condone her leeching off of him.

I believe Peach said she found peace after she realized that it wasn't all her fault like she had been told for years. I understand that part of it tremendously - it was always my fault for everything and I took it and believed it. Now I realize it wasn't true and am too at peace with most things. And I will always be a victim - a victim of someone elses selfish antics. But I won't play that part. I have moved on I am happier than I've ever been - but I didn't break apart two families to get that way. And as happy as I am I am sure a part of me would find some satisfaction if they broke up. As most of us would.

And you know I have seen the if they do it with you they will do it too you too many times to count. I know that not all affair marriages end up that way - but numerous ones do - and like I said I do hope yours isn't one of them. But I have two cousins - had affairs on their first wifes - married their affair partners and then cheated on them too. So I do have knowledge of this first hand. Like I said I do know it's not all of those relationships. And everytime I have heard Dr. Phil say that it has been when an affair marriage was in turmoil because of cheating again.

Did your exes wife work before they got divorced?? If not why would you think she should start working because her husband chose to leave her? And you're right you make wonderful money.

I am sure you weren't looking - my ex wasn't either - so he said - but he says he found it and in my book he chose to do that - he chose to have an affair with her and to leave me - maybe it was a feeling but a feeling he chose to have. and the funny thing is his girl friend told him that she was looking - that she set out to get him - even though she was married. So some people do that. Instead of trying to deal with their marital problems they cause more.

I do hope you are happy - but I hate that after all peachy has been through that you can still bash her like that. Just my opionion.

Bob,
You, sir, need help. Your anger comes through the www. A therapist can help. How can you justify in your mind being so rude to a complete stranger?? And you THINK you are so moral. Sure.

Yes that is possibly correct, M'am. I need help because I called you out on your indefensible adulterous behaviour and lame defense thereof.

I consider myself a sinner before God, made clean by His grace. No more.

I note you do not answer my specific points, but resort to accusations of mental or emotional instability.

You have to make no account for your behaviour to me, m'am. Only to your God and your conscience.

I suspect you will find more trouble convincing God of your rationale than you did your conscience.

My great friend Gimble says


And he is a FWH.

My experiences here lead me to believe HIS view, rather than yours.

Heres hoping you wake up and smell what you REALLY be shovelling soon.

BTW

It is true that my H and I make very good money,(close to 450K last year)

Hope it made you feel good passing that on to an anonymous bunch of internet folks. I for one am very impressed.

Judas, if I recall, only made 30 pieces of silver as a result of his betrayal, but allowing for inflation thats probably 450K at current rates.

Her statement did not reflect what you are stating. We'll have to agree to disagree.

A person remains a victim only if they allow themselves to. Please reconsider wearing you victim status. Your life will change dramatically for the better when you do. A victim is helpless. A victim has no power over their feelings or their life. Be strong. Don't allow your ex to harm you another day. You are allowing him to hurt you over and over by remaining a victim! There are some good books on this subject.

We could trade stories all day on those who have made it and those who haven't. I know many on both sides. It's amazing what people will share with you when you aren't judgemental.

No, his ex did not work. Why in the world would that make her entitled to live off of him the rest of his life? It was a marriage, not a slave arrangement. She's very capable of working and educated. It's welfare attitude for the wealthy. He did give her a great alimony settlement, which I believe she was entitled to. Also, don't confuse alimony and child support. They are two totally different laws in all states. Alimony is for what you are talking about, taking care of an ex who cannotm for various reasons take care of herself. Child Support is SOLEY for the support of the child.

Not sure if I understand you about the "feeling" thing. I didn't choose to have any feelings for my husband. I fought them for a very long time. The feeling wasn't my choice, but the wrong actions were my choice.

(edited the alimony part for clarity)

TR, Excellent post. For me, it's all about personal responsibility. We've all made mistakes, hopefully we learn from them so we don't have to repeat them. There's too much trashing going on here from both sides!

It's true Peachy trashed her XH and his OP's in the past. Hey, I loved it at the time because I was feeling the same way about my STBXH and his OP. This was a safe place to vent that stuff - not that it was right, but once the feelings were released, we could count on others to relate and someone would always nudge us back toward MB principles and refocusing on ourselves (and our kids).

Like me, and most of us, Peachy's come to forgiveness. Would she have forgiven if XH and FV were blissfully happy? Who knows. Didn't happen! The important thing is that forgiveness isn't for "them", it's for us.

While I appreciate hearing your point of view as a WS who went on to be happily married to another WS - since most WS's posting here ended their A's and are either rebuilding their M's or lost their M's due to their A's, which is easier for us BS's to relate to and accept - I guess I'm with happyfinally wondering why post here? I'm genuinely curious.

While I believe you deserve to be treated with respect, I believe you owe respect to other posters too. I respectfully suggest you examine what it is about Peachy that pushes your buttons so much and do some soul searching there. Trashing her here on her own thread, isn't helping her, yourself, or anyone else. I know, for me, if someone pushes my buttons, it's about some issue I'm not dealing with. As we say in Al-Anon, "When you point a finger at someone else you've got three fingers pointing back at you."

LT,

You are correct. I had no business trashing peachy and will stop.

"The important thing is that forgiveness isn't for "them", it's for us."

Couldn't agree more. That is why/how I forgave my ex's ow. That and the fact that since God forgave me, how could I not forgive her?? Thank you for your post.

Bob,
Find someone else to take your intense hatred out on. Have a good life!

I am just pointing out facts as I see them LF.

hatred is :

I've told many a joke about the wacko poster filled with bittness on MB to my friends!!

THAT is hatred.