Thornedrose
how do you know it wasn't God, who in the end, actually did bring them back together?

I know of no scripture where God approves of infidelity or marital unfaithfulness. Can you tell me where God would destroy two marriages so two infidels could be happy with His blessing in scripture ?

I am no Bible scholar, it would help if you can point them out to me. I only know the parts where God abhors infidelity and divorce.

Thanks.

God certainly doesn't break up marriage(s).

But out of the broken ones, forgiveness can be had, and something new could be made.

LT,

I agree it's all about personal responsibility, taking responsibilty for our actions and our words. It doesn't matter a hill of beans if your the BS, the WS or the OP, change won't occur in a persons life until they turn the mirror back on themselves.

This part isn't directed to you LT, just a general getting on my soap box vent--

If a person chooses to judge others by the "Law" then they also need to understand they will be judged by the same "Law" and that Law comes with TEN things listed. And if they have broken even ONE of those laws, they are guilty of breaking ALL of them. And in that, God doesn't judge the actual ACTIONS of a person but the HEART of a person, and
WE are ALL guilty.

Even the passing thought of lust over someone is considered adultry, so, if you've EVER lusted over anyone, your guilty of the same thing your spouse is per God's Law that you wish to judge by. (Matthew 5:27-28) So even if you never acted on it, the thought was still there and that is what God will judge.

That is what I'm talking about turning the mirror back on ourselves for true changes, when we stop looking at what other people are doing and start looking at ourselves to see WHERE DO I NEED TO MAKE CHANGES, in order to make my marriage or life better?

And in that Peachy, is a Christian, her name calling and continued anger is just as wrong. Did she have a right to be angry at the betrayal, sure she did, but it doesn't give her the right to name call and to continue in that anger.

What it is the Bible says about being angry? Eph 4:26; Proverbs 22:24; Colossians 3:8; Eccl 7:9

And in that pride cometh before a fall, don't think you could NEVER act on your own lustful thoughts, or you could be put into such a situation yourself and be put to the test.

And if you don't forgive others, God won't forgive you, your sins. (Matthew 5:14-15)

Off my soap box--

God can do anything, I agree. But I'd like to see some scripture back up what seems to be promulgated here :

"I got married, but found someone else who I realised was my soul mate while I was still married so we divorced and remarried OM and God understands so I'm forgiven and its OK".

Forgiveness can CERTAINLY be had if you own and admit your sin and repent of it. I see very little of that in LFs posts.

My opinion is entirely unimportant her however. Deep down WS know the truth of their sit with their conscience and God.

And that is what is really important.

Oh, no question in my mind, we're in complete agreement.

I'm reminded of a story I heard from my folks about these people that divorced their spouses, then got married, because "We'd only really be sinning the first night when we re-married, so we'll ask forgiveness for that, and then God will have to bless the rest of our marriage as we've been forgiven".

Don't think God's a player in that sick little game...

TR
I am a sinner. And I pray that God identifies my sin to me. And I try to repent of that behaviour.

I do not justify it, rationalise it " couldn't help it", "such was my destiny", soul mate whatever.

All have sinned. SOME repent.

I do not believe God supports prosperity through sin.

A man steals a million dollars and repents, how can he keep the money in good conscience ?

Can he truly repent without returning the money ?

Thats not a rhetorical question. I dont know. I suspect not, but I am willing to see scripture that supports such.

Bob,

Can you show me where she said She found her "soulmate" and divorced her husband to marry him?

Granted, I'm sure many a WS's have done just that, but I haven't seen her say that.

I have seen that she said "She ended the affair, confessed the affair, tried to work on her marriage, her marriage ended anyway, a year later she happened to start dating the OM again, and after dating for two years they married."

Apparently, I'm seeing it vastly different, because what I read, it doesn't tell me she left her marriage to BE WITH the OM, in that they didn't even see each other for over a year for whatever reason. I guess for me it would be different if she continued to see the man while she was saying she was working on her marriage and said to heck with this I'm leaving and rushed right over to be with the OM.
but then, that's how I see it.

Edit**

I think what bothers most people about her situation is that even though her marriage didn't work, and even though she didn't run right to be with the OM, she still ended up marrying him some two or three years later even after having not seen each other for over a year.

Bob,

I don't take slander lightly. I will report you to the correct authorities if you do not remove the post that you are attributing to me.

"I got married, but found someone else who I realised was my soul mate while I was still married so we divorced and remarried OM and God understands so I'm forgiven and its OK"."

You are lying and deceiving.

Since you don't know the Bible, and keep using God's name, why not do some reading of his word? You will find many examples of people who have committed adulty who have been forgiven and Blessed by our Creator. A certain King is a great example. He even had the husband killed.

The Almighty's name is not to be used by us as a rock, or hammer, or pedistool.

True, but 2 Tim 3:16 tells us that:

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.

"Since you don't know the Bible, and keep using God's name, why not do some reading of his word? You will find many examples of people who have committed adulty who have been forgiven and Blessed by our Creator. A certain King is a great example. He even had the husband killed."

The Great King David, the line of which Jesus himself was born into..

TR you are doing a great job of unraveling this sort of hypocrisy, and self-serving malevolence...but you are beating a dead horse, (as I am sure you know), closed minds are ....well closed.

Let me add something (logical) to this sort of (regular) gratuitious ws beating. We can only communicate with words (since none are telepathic), and words oftimes lead us to nonsensical positions, solely to supposedly prove our point(in this case, bob's, that whoever is unworthy, and their marriage equally unworthy, and hopefully fails...a popular bs position).

It goes like this bob, each action a human being takes is an independent event, life is a series of decisions (and resultant actions). It is impossible to leave your marriage for someone else, and that marriage be about the "destruction" of the previous marriage. No one has the ability to discern, or the power to create a specific furture (and remembet the future begins one "milisecond" from the present moment). Plenty of people "divorce" for a lover, only to be spurned, or even change their minds themselves, how can this be if the two events are "linked". Ergo, God will judge us for each action, not judge us for a future action based on a present action. He makes that clear in His Scripture as well.

There is nothing inconsistent with behaving improperly in a marriage, yet emergeing from that event (whether still married, or divorced), experienceing the natural consequences of your actions (which God may or may not mitigate...such as with LL situation for sexual impropriety), being forgiven, cleansed, covered with grace, and able to make additional decisions, including marrying again (and who is irrelevant, including an affair partner). God will (and He makes that clear too) be present in all marriages, if asked...he does not exlclude anyone...even real infidels (not the affair kind). As TR pointed out every human being is lacking anyway, and probably all guilty of some kind of sexual impropriety in action or thought at some point..so it is silly bob, to try and make a special case of this kind, and suggest it is evil and can't work, and ok to think bad thoughts of unfaithful partners who marry.

The salient issue here is consequences, not spiritual condemnation. Marrying an affair partner is a tricky business, and as Frank Pittman points out, regardless of how well they fit, the additional consequences of choosing this person are extremely difficult to overcome, and therefore increase the likelihood of failure. The point being, don't go into this without your eyes wide open. Marriages fail for all sorts of reasons, and sometimes they fail when they shouldn't, but regardless one can only go forward in life, and God lets us do that. It is up to us to repent, and learn , and choose more wisely, and sin less as we grow, and there will be consequences temporal and spiritual if we don't. Lots of ws repent, and are remorseful, they may or may not choose to remain married, they may or may not even be given that choice, and all they can do is move on.

For LF, sounds like she has processed her roles appropriately, including seperateding from the affair partner, until such time he was honestly available...she is not responsible for his life, or marriage, nor he hers, no one is, no one can be, no one can make someone leave a marriage...it is ignorant to imply anyone has broken up a marriage. People do what they do, including the complex area of mate selection, and the experience the consequences of their choices. Anyone with any brains understands from the experience of an infidelity, it is rarely, if ever, a useful choice. Understanding that, and eventually marrying an affair partner are two seperate events, having nothing to do with each other....if that marriage works or fails, it will be because of the people in it, and how capable they are at making wise choices...God will not "punish" that marriage selectively, He is also most likely not going to shield it from natural consequences (although He may, prayer is a powerful tool to reach God, and He tells us to ask of Him). Anyways Bob, your position (and it is not uncommon) is vitriolic, and reflective of your feelings, not rooted in anything that makes logical sense. There is no justification whatsoever for wishing ill on others, whether directly, or by trying to imply they are somehow "lesser" than other people...in this case that a marriage between 2 unfaithful partners is somehow different than other marriages...it is not, not in any way at all. In fact, the best outcome for us as society is that all marriages work, and that if second marriages, people learned their lessons and chose wisely....right?

TR..I think what bothers most people about her situation is that even though her marriage didn't work, and even though she didn't run right to be with the OM, she still ended up marrying him some two or three years later even after having not seen each other for over a year.

K...That is the crux of it, and something I don't really understand, it is a feeling of course, and comes from that dark place in all of us of vengeance, revenge etc. Seems like something we should resist, not embrace...and of course, the more we feel it, and visit it on someone, the more that says about us, and our unworthiness as a mate, and maybe we needed to be abandoned cause we are not emotionally safe.

I agree bob that it is unlikely God will specifically choose infidelity as the means to resolve a troubled marital situation, or introduce the "one" He has in mind for us (but He might). He can do anything He wants, it is us humans and our interpretations that try to put Him in a box...by definition we are incapable of understanding God's means and ways, and I think it a waste of time for a ws to invoke God as bringing someone to you, as well as the bs for thinking God won't..the truth is we don't have a clue...and the reality is we have freewill, so a decision to be unfaithful is ours anyways, not God's. But I do think God is quite capable of putting a marriage into crisis, (and a "potential" unfaithfullness seems to be a primary means, and a logical one to boot...the trick is to not act on it, but confront the marital issues).

"True, but 2 Tim 3:16 tells us that:

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness"

Haven't you forgotten something?

Nowhere does God give people the right to continue to "rebuke, correct and train" when the person is no longer committing the sin. You can't continue to "beat" someone with the Maker's word for no reason. I have stated more than once that I have stopped the sin, asked for forgiveness and been forgiven by God.

Sensational post Knight 50. You write very well. Are you published?

Knight,

Yes, I may be beating a dead horse with some, but I trust God has someone in mind to reach as they read what we have written. Be it they repent or they harden their hearts even more, I don't know, but God does.

I wanted to address something that you said here:


I agree it is unlikely that God will bring another person in to destroy a marriage, but in reading Job, I see that He does ALLOW Satan to do such things to test our faithfullness.

So even though God does not personally bring another person into the situation He does allow Satan to do such things, and hopefully in those situations BOTH of the marriage partners choose to work on any problem areas within their marriage. But as we know from reading here, that is not always the case.

And in some cases it's not the WS who refuses to repent and make changes within themselves and thus the marriage, but the BS who believes they did NOTHING wrong to make the marriage vunerable to an affair and or divorce in the first place and so they continue doing the same things, never changing, thus allowing the marriage to remain vunerable.

Just for the record LF, I am not promoteing infidelity as a trivial matter, it is not, and the infidel may have serious ammends to make (regardless of what happens to the marriage), and I am ok with a certain amount of grief and visciousness from a bs (if deserved, some bs are peices of work themselves of course). But as harley makes clear, this temporary insanity has a short window of opportunity, and then must end, or becomes an abusive behavior...a bs who remains bitter and such is a very sick individual, and had nothing to do with being betrayed... those who promote ws bashing reveal something not so nice about their character as well, and for my money make poor partners. Also for what it is worth, and I don't intend to write a post on it, and I know you felt provoked, but some of your responses were gratuitious, catty, "namecalling" too, and you should own that and apologize for it, and consider what God has to say about such things...saying someone else started it won't work, as you well know.

I saw this item under active topics, and was somewhat surprised as it actually started some time ago. It's obviously something that inspires a lot of different emotions in us all.

Knight50, Your post seems logical, sensible, and well-thought out.

I agree with you about LF, and that it sounds like she's dealt with things in the proper manner, and it's counterproductive to this site's purpose to harass her.

I also agree that it's counterproductive to attack bob and peachy because they express themselves as they do. They have wounds that affect their perception, and are also deserving of patience and understanding.

Yep, it is a good thing to remember Job. The subject of marital failure is a fascinateing one, far beyond the scope of this site to effectively discuss. What does one do when all else fails, does God expect us to "wait" on Him fixing things, or does Scripture reveal marriage is not just a legalistic paper, but something more, and it is either present of not, and we can discern that...I dunno. And if we exist in some sort of legalistic (but emotionally dead) marital limbo, does that open the door to "consequences" are we being prideful, are we using God for our own ends? Is one of those consequences that in this vacuum, we are more likely to "survive" by bonding elsewhere, instead of simply ending it? And finally, why would satan send temptation to a n emotionally dead marriage, that is counterproductive, it seems satan would prefer and tempt people to remain in sick, hurtful relationship...not create turmoil that will resolve it (either by reconcilliation or divorce). I do agree with harleys though, that one should protect a marriage, cause I do think satan is quite capable of tempting people out of relatively healthy marriages, and we can all be vulnerable at the wrong time, if we are not vigilant. So I suppose it depends, it seems to me either God, or satan, or no one, can create a crisis of fidelity in a marriage... I suspect sometimes it is simply a consequence of our behavioral choices as well, and the realities of human behavioral dynamics.

For the record, I was not promoting infidelity either. I've always thought they were terribly wrong, and just because I fell for a time, doesn't make them any less wrong. It actually crystalizes what I felt prior. There is a better path than the one I took! Divorce is not easy and someone's bound to get hurt no matter how you try, but it can at least be from honesty and not betrayal.

Actually, when it comes to peachy, I was the one who started everything. I owe her an apology, but will not give it insincerely. Give me some time. As far as some others, they are just terribly unhappy people. That's pretty clear. When a person is that unhappy, they tend to look for "targets" to release their anger on. Didn't really bother me. I've never cared much what anyone thinks besides those I love.

Have a great evening! My sweetie is coming home tomorrow, so I probably won't have time to post.

(Is that clapping I hear??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

Don't disagree for a heartbeat. Was only tossing out the reminder that there was nothing wrong with the Word being used as correction. Now as a bludgeon, that's a whole 'nudder problem all together.

OH lord...ENOUGH ALREADY....god could a mod PLEASE lock this friggin thread...I am so sick of reading this. NO if we are gonna discuss the rights and wrongs of what went wrong in our marriages can we PLEASE move it to another thread....like general discussion....this is the DATING PART of the forum...post divorce....not debate area not point the figer at the fault area....Peachy and bob you know I love you guys *grouphug* but this is the last thing I want to read when I come to this section to think about moving on with my life.....and LF...-_-....*shakes head*...nevermind the words arn't worth the effort...just take it somewhere else.