Excellent Post MM.

Ok FAR, how are you doing? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

Would like to add FAR, about the WW taking the documented emails and daily log from your notebook...

My xh broke into my home and stole photos of my bruises, other increminating evidence as well...that was when all heck was about 2 break loose.

Just be still...quiet. do not let her in on anything you know. She's playing good now...she knows you are playing hardball...but point is, she's not being honest, she's playing.

I work in a healthcare arena. Upper management and clinicians will not like fellow workers destroying their respective families just for fun. Andif illegal goings on are happening, it would cost them their jobs. I say expose and keep on keeping on. Write document, and watch the key logger.!!!

It's hilarious how she is thinking she's getting away w/it!

Keep on w/reverse babble...it keeps them confused.

My personal fave from a few years ago..."It is what it is". You can pepper it at the end of any sentence to her. It made my xh think I was just not worried about anything.

Ex: I am happier with monkeyho/family values. We were never happy. Me: That's great. I'm glad you're happier when you're lying...sigh...it is what it is.

Ex: It is what? Me: I am just saying...Ex: What! Me: I am just saying that you being happy lying is what you're saying. Ex: I didn't say that! Me: It is what it is.

Thanks, guys. It is kindof a low day for me. i am in that "don't care - lets just get it over with and move on" mood today.

But your posts have given me a boost, and I can see that ww is right on script.

Meanwhile - I am reading through some stuff at recoverynation.com, and learning about my own compulsive behaviours. That is part of what has put me in this blase mood. I do not agree with some of the way ww wants to deal with the kids. As I learn about my compulsive behaviour - as i read about boundaries - i ache to raise my kids differently. As I begin to set some boundaries - it seems to make her less interested in working things out. She seems to bristle when I touch her. I walked in after she got out of the shower this morning. She was in her towel. I love to kiss her wet back. i was looking at her back, thinking about that, not about to do it - but she spun around and looked as if she felt violated.

I am ready to move on. But I want the best for these kids. And i am committed to that.

Plus - i made a promise. Part of my promise was for her happiness. I failed. But i will not turn my back on it. i still made it, and i am going to do what i must to keep it. Right now, she is not accepting it. She will not go out with me. She seems always irritated with me. Belittling me every chance she has. She thanked me for dinner last night, sincerely, but offers no other pleasant conversation.

I will hold my shoulders back, my head high. I will take pride in what I am doing. For the improvement in me that is happening. She can come along if she wants. Whatever.

God is so cool.

I was sitting outside the bathroom where DS6 was spending some quality time. He said "Daddy, I love you."

far "I love you too, son."
DS6 "Daddy...."
far "Yes, son?"
DS6 "I'm glad mommy married you."
far "me, too, bud. I'm glad, too"
ds6 "daddy..."
far "Yea, bud?"
ds6 "I'm glad you married mommy"
far "I'm glad I married mommy, too, bud."

(keep in mind ww is sitting in the bedroom next to this bathroom, reading. she IS hearing all of this"

ds6 "daddy..."
far "yes, buddy?"
ds6 "you know why I am glad you and mommy married?"
far "why is that, bud?"
ds6 "because your the bestest parents in the whole world, and I'm glad you and mommy are my parents"
far "thanks, bud. I'm glad we're your parents, too."
far "(yes, God, could this be more perfect!)"

That was cool. WW did not mention hearing it...

Orchid: U made a promise that was not within your control. Let it go. NO one is gonna hold you to that kind of promise. In the future, make sure your promises are within your control. Ok?


Orchid: U have 1 smart son. Isn't it amazing how little they are yet how powerful they can be? My son at 6 wrote a letter to his father because in his own words:

Son: mom, I want to write a letter to my dad.

Orchid: Ok. Do you need my help?

Son: No, I can do it, I just wanted to let you know.

Orchid: Ok, can I ask what it is about?

Son: Yea and you can read it. I just can't talk to my dad about it.

Orchid: Why not?

Son: I am too embaressed to talk to him. I don't like how he is treating you and it is better if I write it to him.

Amazing arent' they? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

Yes, they are.

If it were not for them....


Thanks, Orchid.

THis is my journal entry today. (my journal is .doc files on my computer - it is so much easier. I guess I will have to start printing them and mailing them to myself - to date stamp them)

Journal July 24, 2005

2:30pm
Just had a phone conversation with (ww) as she was driving to work.

As she walked out the door, I told her she was a precious soul. She said something to the effect “I know you don’t believe it, but thanks.”

I called her to tell her I DO think she is a precious soul. She started talking about how she knows that I feel like I am righteous and she is a sinner, and how I have justified doing anything since I am justified by my righteousness. She said she knows how I really feel (I assume she is referring to my log, and the pages she tore out of it - lots of notation about her drinking in it).
She said she is very afraid of me – that she feels like the bottom could fall out of her world at any moment (because of what I might do).

She said she was not interested in discussing it right now – then talked for 3 or 4 minutes.

She said she can not believe anything I say. She says my actions tell her how I feel about her. (good! Maybe plan a will work)

WW is torqued that I put a keylogger on her computer. Many months ago I told her that the computer she was using was hers, and that it would be a safe place for her. I did not know at the time she would carry on an affair with it.

I responded “good, it is good to hear that you want to move forward”. She paused for a moment, and then she said “I absolutely want to move forward”. Maybe it is time to ask her to do counseling with me with Steve Harley. I thanked her for sharing with me how she feels. I did not deny or apologize for anything. She always is silent for a moment when I do that. Seems to take her off guard that I do not defend myself. That I actually am listening. I need to try to create more opportunities to listen silently.
end entry


Well - slowly progress is happening.

I sure appreciate you guys and gals!

far

How about the part of that promise that says "until we both shall die."? She could say that her wanting leave (emotionally - she does not want us living in different places because of the kids. That gives me a lot of home - it will be hard for her to fight this for the next 16 years) is something that is out of her control, so just live with it.

I am prepared to live with it. But not with her, if she wants to act single.

Orchid - I appreciate your insight.

far

OH - great advice - no promises made that I can not control.

Well, here we go again. WW is out. She went to work, said she got off at 8. The last we talked to her was around 6pm. Her office phone was busy for 20 minutes. (we went to voicemail several times) We have not spoken to her since. DD4 has left 2 or 3 messages to call her back.

Usually when she goes awol - she is with one whom I suspect is a sexual partner. She does not answer, then calls at 11 to say she is gonna get on the road when she dries out. ("she likes his friends, who own a restaurant, and has a couple on the house, then dries out before driving")

I feel like it is time for plan B, but I have not yet had a conversation with her telling her that MY boundaries are that if she wants to live like a single person that she needs to move out, but if she wants to stay here then she needs to commit to trying fix this relationship. She tells me that she is not interested, regardless of whether she is interested in anyone else. A lot more talking needs to happen, but she goes awol the times it is most likely to happen.

I am ready to be done with this. SH and DRH both were worried that my bank would empty out while trying to work through this. I think they might be right.

But I will not file. I will not discuss D. I will do all that I can for the realtionship.

I know - not answering the cellphones is in the book - I know.

It is driving me crazy, so there must still be an ember burning.

Somebody get me a bucket of water.

FAR - I think your bank may be empty soon too. There needs to be a way to change this road you are on. I still think that your wife has more of a problem with alcohol than anything else. Her behavior is dangerous.

Sounds like plan B time! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> A needed step. Otherwise, she will continue to disrespect you and step on your R and M. Look at what she is doing to your little one. More disrespect. In your case plan B with help you and your daughter.

BTW, when filing for separation (do check out your D options), motion for full custody and mention her track record of late nights out with questionable characters, then mention about the drinking and irresponsible behavior. Mothers need a lot thrown against them to lose custody, so you have to pull out the big guns in order to protect your little one. You have no idea how much worse she can get down the road.

Be safe.

L.

I do not believe she has a huge problem with alcohol. It gets excessive sometimes, but she could easily pass it up. Since she stole a couple of pages out of my journal where I was documenting her consumption, she has greatly reduced it.

She says she went to dinner at Rock Bottom after work. She did not offer with whom she went. I told her DD4 went to sleep upset that mommy did not call her back. She said she did not get the messages, then hedged and said she got them late. She called when she was leaving, but only then. (I did not answer) I told her I would have liked to get a call, too. She was taking a breath to say something, but I told her curtly: "good night", then left the room. She did not bother coming to me with anything.

Her issue is wanting to be free, but not wanting the kids to be in a divorced home. Were it not for them, she woulda left my [censored] 5 or 6 years ago. She is gonna have to make a choice, soon. I will need to protect myself, and it's gonna be plan B, or plan PIA. I do not think she would actually leave if I gave her a plan b letter. I do not know how to handle that. I am just gonna hafta set some boundaries, and let her chose what to do. I am developing values, too, and she is walking all over them.

She has this dreamy idea of us being divorced, but living in the same house. Doing our own thing, but parenting together. I once thought that sounded nice, but I was eating fog.

She apologized for the pain a few night ago, then took ahold of the dagger handle (the dagger that is stuck through my heart from the back - all I can see of it is the point sticking out of my chest. It heals up around the dagger.... the dagger is a 16" stiletto) and shakes it - twists it around so all the scabs and tissue break loose again. "Oh, I am sorry for all the pain I cause you. I really never wanted you to know about this..."

WTF????????????

(do you mind if I go off here? I am going through training about compulsion and addiction - so SCREAMING AT MY FRIENDS is my only way to let off enough steam to get some sleep. {surfing for dirty pictures has been dead since January 1 - PRAISE GOD - can I get an amen?})

Thanks, Believer, for writing back. Is it you that lives up the coast from us? We are inland east county...)

OK, mortar, let me have it....


Oh -

AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGGGG! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I just found and copied Graycloud's plan b letter. I am just formulating. I have not decided for sure to give it to her. But I am gonna type it. I think I need to consult with SH or DRH before I give it to her. I do not have proof that she is in an affair.

Can you plan b a woman who is just not stepping up to the plate? Is it worth it?

We rent and pay a hefty sum. We will likely have to move to a less expensive place if WW get's any custody and any support. Plus all of the legal fees.

Anyone with experience with that? (duh!)

I just want a mate that cares for me. I specifically do not want one that does not. This one does not. I will settle for none over this.

So WW is acting all like everything is just peachy this morning. No "sorry for not calling", no nothing.

I am sick of this.

I avoided the conflict, and did not ask her who she was out with last night.

So I know what plan B is, but Orchid mentioned "filing for separation", and I have no cocept of where to go from here. I guess I have to retain the attorney?

I am not even sure I want to do it, but I have always done well heeding the advice of the elders.

melancholy sigh

FAR,

Slow down a second. While I agree you may be at the point of Plan B (coming from the self-appointed Plan B Czar...as I LOVE Plan B!), I still say you have a thing or two to get ready before you go to Plan B.

First, you avoided the conflict right? But in doing so, you did not protect your boundaries. Without LBing, you could have asked to explain where she was and why she did not call. That is not LBing. Sure, she will get defensive and mad. But that is the point.

You see, when you go to Plan B, it is because you have had enough. And both of you will need to know that you have had enough. How will she know? Well, she will have seen you Plan Aing, while continuing to defend boundaries...as she continued to cross them. Once you go to Plan B, she will know that this is a logical step you have made...not something akin to the emotional decision making that she has been doing. This is key for her in Plan B darkness, because it is that trust in you and that you are being logical that will allow her to lean on you for help when she gets to the point that she wants to come out of the fog. So, defend your boundaries...in a loving but firm way.

Next thing is to have your Plan B letter ready. Write it and place it on here to be vetted. There are examples on this website.

Third, get your household in order so that you can do Plan B. Of course, you do not leave. If she leaves, then Plan B will be easier. But you can, with some difficulty, Plan B someone while they still ive in the same house. I Plan Bed my wife while we still continued contact about our kids. But that ontact was ONLY about our kids, until she was willing to live up to the Plan B letter.

So, get that stuff together. Defend your boundaries. Continue to Plan A a little longer while you get it together.

Then you can go to Plan B ready for peace. And that is what Plan B will give you (after the initial withdrawal you will have from your wife).

Anyway, get busy. Your feelings and where you are at are right on schedule. Time to keep this train moving.

In His arms.

Thanks, Mortar. I was waiting to hear your voice.

Plan B in the same house sounds interesting. But it does not cut off the financial support. I guess it could - I just opened an individual account, and she is VERY scared I am about to pull the rug out from under her. She has told me she is afraid of me.

I am gonna call her in a few minutes (she has gone to work) I will ask her to call me back when she can talk for a couple of minutes. I will then ask her who she was with, and why she did not call. I will just listen.

Thanks. I am so lost.

It gives me peace that I never throw you a curve ball. That this is all familiar.

FAR -

If you file for a legal seperation here, and decide to divorce later, you will have to pay all over again. My boys father and I got a legal seperation, because I kept hoping to save the marriage. All of the financial things were worked out. It cost me $2500. After 3 years, I decided to get a divorce, and had to pay another $2500. for it, even though there was nothing to dispute or agree on.

Here you can get a written agreement about financial matters for about $350. It is just like a business contract.

FAR... thanks for posting on my thread.

Afraid of you? As in, afraid you'll come down on her legally and financially? As in, as long as she places herself in the way of your and your family's interests, you'll protect those interests from her? Fair enough. If that makes you scary, then I guess you oughta be scary.

GC

Yes, I think that is it. She sees me as unpredictable. She is afraid of what I will do next. She does not know what I know. Exposure really shook her up. She knows I have a rock solid custody case against her, and she thinks that I am planning on using it.

I received an email from my office this morning. Apparently someone with some papers for me was in. I was off yesterday.

Am I being served D papers?

What is my next move? He left a number. Do I call back?