round 1. DING!

now... I am a guy, so I have the standard no-memory problem. What exactly have I 'taken to task'?

ok...you said...


This is where you took me task.

What I did was advise chasterwebb to contact those whose only motivation is that it is their JOB to have her and her child's best interest at heart and let them know - so that someone besides a bunch of folks on the internet could take action if necessary.

At the point where her husband SAVED pictures to disk, he lost any right to her protection as far as I am concerned. If he is innocent - that can be determined by the appropriate parties - none of which include her.

It's called consequences. If you play with fire, sometimes, you get burned.

She says she is 100% certain that the pictures are his.

Why SHOULDN'T she go to the police? As many pointed out, she doesn't have to accuse her husband, she can simply say I found these in my home.

What was inaccurate about what I said?

She IS enabling and IS an accessory if she knows and does nothing to stop it.

Normal, healthy men do not collect pictures like these. However, sexual addicts do.

Confrontation of an addict is pointless. As I said in her thread, you can not talk or reason with addiction. Addiction is cunning, baffling and powerful and way stronger than any one person. Confrontation will only result in her husband getting better at hiding the evidence and leaving a YOUNG CHILD in his home, with in his reach.

And not only that, but out there, someone is taking pictures of young children, violating and exploiting and destroying young lives. The police MUST be informed so that the information can be traced and these criminals put out of business if possible.

hint...this one's really touchy, pat. Be careful...

Oh yes...and tell her parents...absolutely.

She needs a support network. It should start with parents. I didn't tell her to take out a bill board. I told her to tell people that can provide HER with support and protection.

Again.. this is the consequence of playing with fire.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

First, I will state that child pornography is disgusting. I recall the first time I got an "Anti-Child Pornography" briefing on active duty. My thought then was how sad it was that the Army had to design and implement such training.. because to get the Army to take on such an endevour means that there was a large enough problem to make it Army-Wide training. Which is not to say that one single instance is ok, but I am sure you understand the gravity of the U.S. Army taking the time to combat such a problem, given the idea of "acceptable losses". Surely a discussion all by itself.

Anyway, your advice was to call the police. Immediately. Specifically, the problem I have with this advice is it seems extremely premature given there are still quite a few unknowns. Where did they come from. Is this something you are into. That kind of thing. Chack is in no immediate danger, it seems, so I think it warrants investigation. She can stay in the same house with her husband and still watch over her child. Now, I submit to you that if this man were to grab her child in front of her and run off into the other room, lock the door and assault the child.... all while she is screaming and trying to call 911... then this individual was truly a timebomb and finding some pictures sure doesn't seem to prepare you for THAT kind of nightmare.

In my relationship with my wife, I would prefer to err on the side of faith, instead of dragging the police into it. Not that the police should be kept out, but I think something like the chain of command applies here.

You have a problem with your husband, not matter the weight of it. You ensure your personal safety without making a big show of it and then investigate. Ask questions. Get the opposing side of the story. He should get a chance to say his peace. If she were to find a rabbithole of evil, there are still options. Come back here, explain the story to derive the strength to turn the man in. Or, if she is strong enough on her own, turn the man in. Certainly, child pornography is no joke, but I don't want her going in with guns blazing only to find some sort of reasonable explanation(that I admitted I could not think of, but I further state that doesn't mean it's non-existant). What has she done then? Alienated her husband. Damaged her marriage. And now her husband will likely harbor resentment and/or fear that his wife will 'rat him out' again sometime down the road for something he is innocent of.

I find that as long as I am married to my wife, she will receive my protection forever within a reasonable boundary. I will not cover up a murder for her. But, if I were to walk into the house this evening and there was a dead man on the floor in the kitchen and she with a bloody knife standing over him, I would not immediately grab the nearest phone and call the police. My first reaction would be to ask what the hell was going on. I would investigate and get her side. Then I would know how to respond. And, I would not have alienated her in the process. I would have protected her. Protecting someone is not covering up a crime for them. It is giving them the chance to explain. If there is no good explanation, then the reasonable boundary has been crossed and I am free to make my decision as I wish.

Why is that important? Well, taking my example, what if the truth was sha had just gotten home not but a few moments before me and found this man dead in the kitchen. Maybe he was with a partner to rob our home and THEY had some altercation that resulted in his stabbing and the partner fleeing the scene. Then, in the moment of shock and confusion, she grabbed the knife.

Far fetched maybe. Maybe not. Give people the benefit of the doubt. And if they prove your worst fears true, then yes.... consequences.

My other issue was with the obvious emotional state of the poster. As a reasonable person NOT going through a crisis at the moment, one should be mindful of giving 'advice' in such a hardline manner.

'Call the police immediately'

Then, in this emotional state, she takes your advice and her life falls apart because he was doing nothing wrong but he can't trust her anymore. Will you or I ever receive a moment of guilt or pain for her shattered life? Based on our advice? Probably not. And when you 'toy' with someone elses life in such a fashion, you should really be careful about it. Like it or not, we are all 'toying' with each others lives around here by giving advice and informing people what to do or what we have been through. And that should not be taken lightly.

Possibly the meat is this. When I grew up, it was right around the time Jerry Springer like shows were just starting.. or it seemed that way. I'm 31. Anyway, these people would get on TV and be questioned and in no time flat, they were guilty of what they had been accused of. Also, I recall numerous interviews of people in scandelous situations(or seemingly so) and the questions they would get asked.

Why is this important? I watched my step-mother watch these shows. She could watch an interview, talk-show or you name it... and in the time it took for someone to say "Hi Katie" she knew if they were guilty or not. I learned something from that. I learned that I never want to be that close-minded to what could 'possibly' be the truth. It takes a real skill to be unbiased. To give someone the opportunity to explain themselves.

This is a skill I wish to possess and continue to work on. Numerous reasons... some of which include 'who am I to judge' and 'do I really know the truth'.

Last, on the child pornography, I think yeah... it needs to be turned in, but more so, the source of it. Website. Guy at work. Whatever. Why? Honestly the pictures are not likely to be much help. These files will not carry ID of the machine they were made on. But the source is something you can attack. Something you can shut down. And possibly, saving a childs life.

Also, I think the telling of parents for support is not the way to go. If she tells her parents, then they hate him forever, no matter the outcome. She tells his parents, maybe the side with her... maybe not.

It seems widely accepted here that parents, though having your 'best interests' in mind, are not typically the best people to confide in.

If she needs a support person, I certainly hope she has a friend that does not judge. Some one that can talk with her, but not try to impose some form of 'this is the right thing to do because I say it is' idea. And someone that when this is over does not hold it against the husband if she and he stay married.

That's funny ... I think we should choose our friends because they show good judgement.

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />.

With all due respect, there is a large difference between being judgemental and possessing and using good judgement.

Hi Froz

What exactly does "being judgemental" mean to you?

If you see something being done that you judge to be immoral, and you say to that person ... "This is immoral." .... is that judging or being judgemental?

Pep

I will not cover up a murder for her. But, if I were to walk into the house this evening and there was a dead man on the floor in the kitchen and she with a bloody knife standing over him, I would not immediately grab the nearest phone and call the police. My first reaction would be to ask what the hell was going on. I would investigate and get her side. Then I would know how to respond.

I don't know about anyone else, but my FIRST response would be that we call the police. It doesn't matter what the explanation is, a call to the police HAS to be made. Unless, you are saying that you would need to know how to respond, like not calling the police is an option?!?!?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> How else would you know how to respond to a dead body in your kitchen? Burying the body after dismemberment?


I would think that child porn would be a bit harder to download than your garden variety adult porn. SO, I don't think that child porn just shows up when you might key in a word like sex. You have to go looking for child porn to get it...unlike the other kind of porn.

JMHO
committed

Pep,

Well, I suppose that would depend on the context. Here are some options...

judg·ment also judge·ment n.

The act or process of judging; the formation of an opinion after consideration or deliberation.

The mental ability to perceive and distinguish relationships; discernment: Fatigue may affect a pilot's judgment of distances.
The capacity to form an opinion by distinguishing and evaluating: His judgment of fine music is impeccable.
The capacity to assess situations or circumstances and draw sound conclusions; good sense: She showed good judgment in saving her money. See Synonyms at reason.
An opinion or estimate formed after consideration or deliberation, especially a formal or authoritative decision: awaited the judgment of the umpire.
Law.
A determination of a court of law; a judicial decision.
A court act creating or affirming an obligation, such as a debt.
A writ in witness of such an act.
An assertion of something believed.
A misfortune believed to be sent by God as punishment for sin.
Judgment The Last Judgment.

I think committed is right, I walk in and see body, blood, and I don't care who is holding the knife my hand will be on the phone calling the police. Heck, I called the police when I was a teen because the gas station I opened in the morning had been broke into during the night and someone took the money I left the night before. The boss had a policy of not taking the money out of the station even if you were coming back. Guess who they blamed for taking the money? Hmmm, I had it at closing, it was gone at opening. The thing is I did what was right and that was to call and report the incident and let the police sort of the who and how. They tried to say I did, but they couldn't prove it and in their questioning they found me to be believable. So I walked away innocent.

In the matter we have been talking about it would have been simple just to call the police, hand over the material, say I don't know how it got there, don't know who used the computer last, not sure where the disks came from, but this is what I saw and leave it at that. I'm sure the police would be asking questions, but if there is nothing to hide, there is nothing to worry about.

This is not about murder, child molestation, abuse, speeding, smoking pot. This is about someone having child porn downloaded on a disk.

By prematurely notifying the police, it becomes public record. Almost instantly this person is percieved bad whether he is guilty or not.

Yes, steps need to be taken. Yes, a third party should be advised. But, first off, the person needs to be confronted and given a chance to say their piece before a choice can be made.

As for the immorality of this, well, that differs from person to person. In some people's eye's, bdsm is immoral. so you cannot dictate your morals onto someone else.

Patriot, you are putting up a great fight, look forward to the next few rounds.

Shouldn't folks be able to judge right from wrong? I think most decent people can. Our prisons are full of people who cannot and that is right where they belong.

Can I have your address, please?

No, this is about having pictures of a child being sexually molested. That is a crime the last I knew. Strangely folks here seem to be more worried about this scummy husband than they do a 4 year old who is dire need of police rescue.

How will this child be identified and rescued if all the adults who know protect the possessors of the evidence? All because they don't want to be "judgmental?" Good GOD.


honey, if you are itching for a fight that bad, I will be your huckleberry. Bring it on, hurtnheart.

Will I need popcorn?

I need to get up to speed on verbiage...I don't know what a huckleberry is, save for the most obvious thing.

Help a girl out Mel.

committed

Pat ~

You and I clearly disagree on the definition of crisis. And of judgement. And of 'help'.

This is a woman who has just discovered evidence that could possibly lead to prisontime.

And you and others recommend that he get a chance to tell her his 'side' of something that there is NO possible benign side to.

You and others would rather have this woman confront a man with evidence that could put him away for years in jail.

There are a couple of likely outcomes to this situation, now that he knows she knows.

1. He lies. His wife accepts it and continues to waste years of her life on a marriage that is a lie. And children continue to be destroyed because the information about the source of the pics is never reported, and a young girl is left in the harms reach of a sexual addict whose disease is allowed to run unchecked.

2. He becomes violent and harms his wife, or uses it to intimidate her into silence. She is already afraid that he might use their unusal sexual relationship to smear her in public. (Red flag anyone? She already doesnt trust him! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> ) And children continue to be destroyed because the information about the source of the pics is never reported, and a young girl is left in the harms reach of a sexual addict whose disease is allowed to run unchecked.

3. He is instantly repentant, seeks out therapy - but never tells the therapist WHY he needs therapy because of course, we wouldn't want it on his record. OH NO! And this little family lives happily ever after.

The second she uncovered the pictures, his computer became EVIDENCE of a crime. Not just HIS. And yes "just downloading" is a crime. I've been around on the internet long before the web came into existance. I've done data recovery work on a professional basis.

If he downloaded those pics with his computer, I guarantee, right now, there is evidence on that computer that could help the authorities track the source.

There had to have been MULTIPLE adults who WILLINGLY assisted in the destruction of innocent children to provide her husband with that material.

But of course, if he is warned by a wife who prefers blind 'faith' than that of the facts presented to her, that evidence will be quickly destroyed.

The police should have been given possesion of that computer IMMEDIATELY so that noone contines to contributed in any way to the harm of a child.

The safety of children should always be first. NO marriage, no adult need for a relationship, should ever come before that. As I said, the moment her husband chose to save those files to disk, it was no longer an "oops, I stumbled on a bad website while looking at adult porn" incident. It became premeditated pedophilia.

And let me point out, that my response to her situation became proven over and over, with every post of hers, that provided more information. A young woman, a new baby, a new marriage, with a older man who is already into what I'll call "fringe" sexual practices (Is that non-judgemental enough?) and not just a stray pic....but a collection saved to disc.

She needs her parents to be told, because she needs someone to take care of HER. She absolutely needs someone with good JUDGEMENT to advise her. She needs someone to love her and care for her security and safety FIRST - over the good-name of a man who actively took actions that put his own name in jeapordy.

She didn't put his reputation in jeapordy by telling.. HE DID IT HIMSELF ... by saving those pictures and therefore actively participating AND ENJOYING the cruel destruction of children.

That her parents might HATE him afterwards....well thats the consequences of looking at child porn. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

You don't get around much, do ya?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Haven't you ever watched Tombstone? That is what Doc Holliday says to the bad guys; ie: bring it on, buster, I'll be your guy! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I have boys, so naturally I have watched the movie 200 times.