I agree with PEP!

That line I told you that I used with my H: "I don't want you until you want me"... straight out of the book LOVE MUST BE TOUGH.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Oh, guys, thank you so much for your replies! Really, I wish I could be as strong and wise as you all, and one day I hope I will be able to come back here as an overcomer and be able to give advices to others who need them.

I will get that book as well. Thank you! I will update you.

I have been reading the book I purchased on Sunday - "Codependency No More". It is scary b/c there are so many stories I could relate to.

But here is the thing: I mentioned this maybe yesterday, but my H believes he has not been "true" to himself and has done and said things that pleased me. And now he feels burned out and tired of it and only wants to "think of himself", and do things that "makes him happy".

If two people are engaged in this "focus on yourself" mode, aren't we basically becoming two very selfish people?? There is NO WAY then anything would work our between then. I guess that is how most of divorce happens, right. When two people decided that they do not want to do anything for the partner, then D is the natural answer.

So while I will be working on myself, H is keeping himself busy "only doing things to make him happy". How do I implement Plan A in this situation? I have to be independent and strong, must be able to feel I will be "OK" with or without him. I will try to grow myself. I will not contact him myself unless we need to discuss about our son. How do I show I still care about H?

I was reading someone else's story and came up with this question: should I ask H to come by and spend time with our son in our house, instead of allowing him to come by to pick up the kid and take him to whereever he wants to (lately he has always been taking him to a swimming pool)?

Sorry for those who have taken the time to read this, that my story is not making any progress (on my part nor H's part)!

I just need to vent..., my therapists think this is NOT going to work since H is an addict. One of my therapist I used to see told me "MS, this is NOT normal, and I need YOU to hear this. As long as H has the addiction and blames you for his unhappiness and his addiction, this is not going to work out".

Sometimes I wonder if H is worth my painful worries, efforts, tears, etc. H is quite happy living his irresponsible life at this moment. He clearly does not care about me, at least for now, and would he ever have an incentive to return to me, because that means there will be more work for him (taking care of the kid, helping me out around the house, the dog, the house, etc.)? He is sooooooo lazy that cutting the grass is even a big deal for him. Aaaaaaaaaaaghhhh... I am going nuts!!

YIKES!!!!!!!! Have you been reading the basic concepts here? You must calm down. It will do your son and family no good if you end up in jail.

She will undoubtedly get a restraining order against you, and your husband needs to get one against her.

I hope you live in Texas - in any other state you may be in BIG trouble.

I used to have a decent amount of brain cells, but not lately. Believer - who is she that you are referring to?

Oh sorry hon - wrong thread. That post was to a lady that beat up the OW, and then shot at her. I guess my brain cells are leaving at a fast rate.

I meant to say that you must keep working on yourself, and not worry about what your husband may or may not do. If he is an addict (which it seems he may be) then he may not change unless he gets counseling.

Also please see an attorney to establish some financial protection and regular support.

I am glad I still had my brain cells <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Yes, Bliever, you are right. No matter what, working on myself will benefit me in a long run.

H was getting counseling but who knows if he is still doing it. Also, he was getting all sorts of unhealthy idears from those counselling sessions. H thinks I am UNHEALTHY for him, that is what H concluded after his counselling sessions. So I am fighting a losing battle here.

Oh, AGAIN I am focusing on what H is thinking... I just want my suffering to end really soon. Sometimes I want to scream "the hell with H!".

Sorry, but your suffering won't end soon. Even if you immediately filed for a divorce, you would still have to go through grieving the marriage.

But once you start being proactive, taking care of yourself and your family, you will start feeling much better. So get busy. See that attorney.

I also caught you on this HOPELESSNESS mindset.

You have yourself. If you have yourself, you will be victorious at whatever YOU CHOOSE to accomplish in this situation!!

You will ALWAYS lose if trying to change HIM!

I left the attorney a message yesterday but he hasn't returned my call. I left him a message two weeks ago as well, but haven't heard from him. He is one of the best around here (was chosen as the most popular divorce lawyer for two years in a row or something) and I know he is really busy, but do you think I should go for a more "available" attorney? I chose him after meeting 7-8 attorneys because I fet he was the best. He is very expensive, but I thought in case mine gets really complicated, it might be good to have a really good one. Or wouldn't it make any difference whether you have a good one or not?

The attorney disrespected you by not returning your call. Doesn't sound like he's the right choice if he does not respect you. Right?

Choose the attorney that YOU feel most comfortable with.....

M1254, this is powerful. Thanks.

H emailed me this morning asking about our son. I simply said "he is doing better, but sill not eating much". Do you think it sounded too cold?

Okay, M1254, I just called another one I have never met. I will see if he offers a free consultation.

I have a question for you all: my son gets really upset everytime H droppes him off. I want to minimize his pain and emotional damage.

My son loves to spend time with H, so when H comes to pick him up, he has no problem saying "bye Mama". Yet when H droppes him off, he knows H will be GONE, and cries hysterically. This happenes EVERY TIME, and it breaks my heart. My son would say "I want Papa back! He comes here!" and if I try to comfort him, he would snap at me "no Mama, bad Mama!".

My friends suggested that we set a schedule so that my son has a bit more stability and predictability in his life. That is what Steve suggested as well.

So far, mostly H has been picking him up on Friday from his daycare, spends a night with him and droppes him off on Sat. I can say every other weekend instead of every weekend, but then I would lose the entire weekend (according to the standard). And I CANNOT even imagine being without my son for the entire weekend, every other week, for next 16 years! If I don't have my son, I really don't see a point living in this country alone. He is my life.

I don't mean to be overly dramatic, but I really can't live without my son. He is the only thing I have now. So maybe instead of losing the entire weekend every two weeks, I rather lose a day every weekend. But since my son gets really upset, I am thinking of suggesting H to pick him up on Sunday, spend the day & night with him, and drop him off directly at his daycare on Mon. morning. That way, he will have a transition through his school. He hates to be dropped off at his daycare anyway, so this way at least he will not be upset with me in his own house.

What do you think? Of course the question is if H would agree, but so far he has been spending a day each weekend anyway, so even if I switch to Sun. rather than Sat., that may not be a big deal.

See, these things make me really angry. It's my son and yet I can't even keep him to myself!!! Because H wants to be out but yet wants to steal my time with my son!!

One additional question: can I tell H not to date anyone (through the dating service H probably signed up for), b/c we are still M? OR would it push him further towards paperwork?

One time H said something very odd - "maybe we can stay M until we find another partner, to save $ on attorney fees." This did not make any sense and I asked him what he meant but I never understood. That was 2 months ago, and the latest comment H said was "D is the only way, let's discuss how to split things fairly". So maybe what H said back then really did not make sense to him as well. Who knows.

But given such background and H's strange thinking, what do you think of me telling him "no date until we are officially D"? H probably could care less and would do anything he wants though. Hmmm.

MS:

What is wrong with this question?

You said you understood my previous posts to you. Do you understand? You can't control him. ONLY YOURSELF!

Are you still in IC? I would recommend that you work with that therapist on getting help with this.

What about ALANON? Are there such groups in your area?

You seem to be needing a lot of help, MS.

I'm not sure you are understanding what we are trying to tell you.

Because I thought Plan A means to be nice and loving but not to be a doormat and to have own boundaries and to gain respect, right?

I don't blame you being frustrated M1254, b/c I get mad at myself too for being this way (believe me I was NEVER like this before - I was always confident and in control), but please be patient with me! I guess I need a lot more help than I thought!

I have read about Plan A and Plan B, my girlfriend implemented Plan A and successfully got her WH back, and I am also reading His Needs/Her Needs. I don't think it is like I am clueless as to what Plan A is all about. Yet, if I don't initiate contacting him, not talking about anything other than our son and necessary things such as finances, then since H lives alone, I really do not feel that I have opportunities to appeal to him that I am still interested in saving our marriage as well as to be firm with certain boundaries.

Yes, I did contacted two different lawyers but neither one returned my calls so I will see if I hear anything back from them tomorrow. I did contact SA-NON over the weekend and today when I got home there was a message. They do have a meeting although early in the morning in the city which is about 40 miles away from my house so I would have to arrange someone to take care of my son ahead of time and this Saturday will not work as I already have a plan.

I am doing things I need to be doing. The only thing is I used to do IC for a while, but am not doing one right now. I liked my first counselor, but there has been scheduling conflict and I changed to another counselor whose office is just a couple blocks away from my office. I went to see him for a month and a half, but he just listens to me saying "I know, and it hurts, right. You are going to be okay" pretty much all the time and does not really give me any of his deep insights nor tactics I could use, so I stopped going.

I need to find another IC, that is the only thing right now I could be doing, of course other than following up with my lawyer. I even went to see a doctor to see if I should be on AD, to ease my pain. In the end, I decided not to take AD though, b/c all of the people I know who are taking them cannot stop taking them and have been on for several years. I did not want to be addicted to anything (I know ADs are not physically addictive, but they can be potentially mentally addictive), especially after learning that my H has an SA.

I have been praying, doing a lot of reading, spending as much time with my son, trying to get out during the weekend, etc. What else should I be doing??

MILK:

I see so much of my former self in you. I guess that's why I get frustrated. I hate it for you because I know exactly how you are feeling. I haven't been angry at you though. I feel anger towards your H or folks like your H given that I don't really know your H! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I will hang in there with you. However, as you well know, I'm part of your support team, having walked in your shoes. Helping you helps me. The professionals are whom you should rely on because you are allowing your H to cause you much unhappiness. You don't deserve that and need help with that. Lots of help!!!


It is my understanding that the MB program is not recommended if the spouse is diagnosed with an addiction other than infidelity, that is. Did Steve Harley agree with the other professionals regarding that diagnosis?

Regardless of the answer to that question, your behavior and mindset is like that of someone in a relationship with someone who is addicted. They call it "CODEPENDENT". I am a child of an alcoholic so I have the symptoms myself.

Like you, MS, I felt that I could not possibley live without my H. I wanted to die when he left me. I became really sick physically and mentally. I really understand what you are going through. I came to realize that I might literally die, in more ways than one, if I did not stop it. He cared less about my begging and pleading and crying. Really- until I began developing a sense of myself, he did not take notice. This is the MINDSET-the way of thinking.

This does not mean that I was unkind to him. I was open in emphatically telling him that I loved him and wanted to be with him, that he was my H and we were supposed to be together, etc. I was emphatic with him and the OW that I would be there waiting when he came back to me-which he eventually did. However, I went on and began preparing myself for the chance that he would not come back. I've since learned that this scared him to death. He realized that he had the chance of losing someone IMPORTANT and VALUABLE.

Don't worry about contacting him! Don't worry about contacting him! You will be too busy developing MILKSHAKE into being the person who SHE wants to be. I tried lots of things..A photography course...flower gardening...a book club... a journal...

What do YOU like to do? What are you interested in? Get busy. Stay as busy as possible. Believe me he will notice.

I'm probably saying the same things over and over again to you. I don't mind. Just tell me what part of what I am saying that you don't understand. Please respond to me about what YOU are doing for yourself.

I would make it a goal to make going to that ALANON thingy a priority. Can't you find a babysitter for your son? Can you cancel your plans for Saturday. I would put FIRST THINGS FIRST.