MS -

As I was reading your latest reply, something occurred to me. I may be wrong about this, but here is something to consider....

I am wondering now if maybe your WH is thinking very much like mine did after he walked out. My XH had this idea that he could go off to be with OW, live a new lifestyle, etc., and that we would remain best friends. He even told me this at one point. He said that he felt we just didn't work well as husband and wife, but more as best friends. He had this vision that he would divorce me, go off to do whatever he wanted, but that whenever he wanted to talk, or go to a movie, or hang out with his "friend," that he would be able to.

He got very upset when I replied that I would never be friends with someone who treated me the way he had, that someone who could do that was no friend.

And throughout it all, what I found was this: If I was trying to get us together, he became sullen and uncommunicative, and at times somewhat hostile. If I was talking divorce, but not being friendly at all, he would vacillate between being very hurt and upset, and being hostile and angry. If I was working through the divorce issues AND being friendly to him, he suddenly started acting like we were best friends again. When this happened, he would frequently try to talk with me about problems he was having with OW.

In other words, what I felt or wanted didn't matter. He had come up with this picture in his mind of how he thought our relationship should be, and that was the only thing that was acceptable. If I didn't follow along with that fantasy, I was being a b#$%@, and he would refuse to talk to me or would be verbally abusive towards me.

The reason I say all this is, I am starting to see this sort of pattern with your WH. When you start talking reconciliation, he gets mad and shuts you out. If you start going along with the separation and quit talking reconciliation, he gets more friendly with you.

I highly suspect that if you start working towards the divorce, he may become friendly again. Especially if you drop the relationship talk like most of us here have recommended. And if you do start working towards divorce, and also refuse to be friendly and refuse to talk to him other than about DS and what you have to talk about for the divorce, he will become hurt and/or angry again.

Unfortunately, what this is doing to you right now is putting you in this cycle - you talk reconciliation, he gets angry, you get hurt. You change to going along with him, but trying to "Plan A" as you do, and he gets friendly. So you get your hopes up, start seeing signs that make you think if you just keep trying you could convince him. He gets mad that you have started bringing up reconciliation again, and the whole thing starts all over again.

Does this seem like a possibility to you?

oxsgirl

milk and i are in very similar situations so we read each other's posts- this sounds like MY HUSBAND so maybe hers too!!

so what to do about it is the question??

OSXgirl, another excellent point!!! I think you are right, as long as I talk to H about DS2 and H's visiting schedule but nothing else, he is happy and friendly. Soon as I talk about us getting back together, he gets very angry.

I have a very good friend (guy) who helped me out for a couple of weeks on my handling H's emails. Everytime I received emails from H, I would ask my friend how I should be responding. My friend would tell me what to say. I would follow his instructions while thinking "really? I would have never replied like that myself!". Basically his advice was to be friendly and pleasant but to remove emotions and not to mention anything about our relationship. After a week or so, H sent me an email saying "I just want you to know that I am not happy about the situation you, DS2, and me are in. In fact, it sucks. But I am really concerned about simply saying okay, let's get back together. We can always be friends at minimum..."

So looking back, maybe that kind of talk (friendly but no relationship talk) really helped. Although now H does not even give me a chance to be friendly!

And yes, my H also said that to me several times - that he views us as "best friends". So it does sound similar to your XH's thinking.

I just read a story about Carol (I think that was her name) linked in EAV's thread. It is about three years old, but it is incredible. Whether I can be lucky enough to be able to get H back like her, but still it sounds like what helped her situation was her 180 change.

H is supposed to come tomorrow morning to pick DS2 up, but we haven't even talked about the time. Also oud backyard grass needs to be mowed. Based on the theory (being friendly and pleasant without relationship talk kind of attitude), should I email H asking what time he would be coming over tomorrow? And can I ask him to cut the grass? Or should I let him contact me and not ask him about the yard? Should I just cut the grass myself (I have mowed grass only twice in my life...)?

I ended up calling H and left him a message last night saying "hi, do you mind when you come by to pick up DS2 tomorrow morning to cut the grass? It's been a month or so, but since it's been so hot the grass is actually not that tall but I think can be trimmed a bit. If you could do that I appreciate it".

No response. This morning usually H would come around 10AM but he did not call nor show up. I waited until 10:30am and decided to call him. I can't just sit around waiting for him, right? I called his cell but it was turned off so left him a message. Then 10 mins. or so later, I called his apartment as well. He did not answer. 20 mins later or so H called from his apartment. So he WAS home then. H said he has an appointment for an oil change at 1:30pm so he could swing by after that - like 2:30pm or so. Then he asked if he could take shower after cutting the grass b/c he will be all sweaty. I said sure. After I hung up, I was thinking, this is the man who complains all the time that he does not spend enough time with his son. When I spoke to H on Monday, he was asking if he could go pick DS2 up directly from his daycare. You would think if H misses DS2 so much he would be up early to come see his son! Now he won't come here until the afternoon. It's fine for me, but I just don't understand how much exactly H REALLY misses DS2. I want to believe that H really loves DS2 and misses him.

H is here and I am very nervous. I tried to be pleasant when I answered the door but H did not even look at me. H just extended his arms to DS2 and cuddled him. I said hi, and finally H replied without looking at me "hi".

He is cutting the grass right now. I peaked inside his car. It is locked, so cannot see much in details but I could see that the passenger seat's plastic rug at the bottom is dirty and has foot prints on. Which means someone was sitting in there. It hasn't raied for quite some time - the only time it rained a bit was Tuesday of last week. So he was with someone that day or the day after? Well it is possible whoever this person may be, was walking on the mud after being watered, so this does not have to be last week. But it hurts to see that.

Of course it is my speculation, but how can H leave his wife of 12 years and partner of 15 years for someone who does not have any history with him???

What can I do to H while he is still here to make positive impression? My friend called me (guy, but married) and we are going out tonight (with him alone or with his friends, I don't know. His wife is in Europe now with their kids), so it is not like I cannot even go out without my H, but I can't pretend that I am all so happy because I have other things to do. What should I do?

H left with DS2. I feel pretty empty. I acted pleasant and did not bring up any relationship related issues today when H was here, though. This is a big improvement for me. H cut me a check for the upcoming two weeks, so I did not even have to bring that up. I am not sure if H has already contacted a mediator like he said he would on Monday.

I know he is financially constrained (although I don't know why, b/c it is not like he has a big rent or car payment, and he does not pay for our mortgage. Why does he feel he does not have money?), but why is he dragging the whole thing? In H's mind, I am the one who is draggging. Yes, I am, b/c I do not want to divorce, but I don't know why H, who keeps saying that D is the only way out and that he has so much anger towards me, does not really do anything about it. Is it just because of the money? I want to believe otherwise, but that is dangerous.... My hopes have been crushed so many times and I don't know how much more pain I can take....

Anyway, I am glad at least I acted all normal today. When they were leaving, I was even be able to SMILE!!!! In the past, I was either angry or crying or something. Even though a big part of me is saying H's cutting the grass is the least thing he could do, I told him "thank you for mowing the yard" several times. I hope he noticed that I was not pushing nor being upset.

Okay, enough of beating myself up with all of the speculations and hopes and depressed thoughts. I am going out now. I used to work with this guy I am meeting tonight, and we used to hang out with him, his wife, me and H. He tells me that H is probably mentally ill now and he will probably leave me again even if he comes back. He and his wife said they would try to help me find someone.... I am not ready at all but the thought that even in the worst scenario I may meet someone gives me some hope.

I met someone a couple of weeks ago on the train, and he has been calling me everyday since. I ignored the first four or five calls but then returned some of his calls, trying not to be rude. I have no interest in him. He chews tabacco. It was a big turn off. H has so many addictions, including nicotine. I was thinking, "why do I keep attracting people with addictions?" But I wish my own husband pursues me like this guy!!!!! H used to do a lot of work, of course when we started dating but soon as we got married, it seems he felt I was his and he did not need to pursue me anymore or something.

I went out with my friend last night and came home around 2:30am. Haven't partied like this in a while..., maybe not since I got pregnant. I wish I could say that I enjoyed, but I did not. I did have a good time with my friend but kept remembering how H and I used to go out to different restaurants and bars when we were younger, and I became sad. Also I missed DS2 terribly. I guess it is just not my makeup to party around once I became a mother. And I don't even feel like I am sacrificying myself for the child. I truly enjoy the most when I am with my son. Then how am I going to learn to enjoy my life when I do not have him around???

I went to bed at 3am but woke up already at 6:30am. Could not sleep well. Then I went to church at 8:30am till 10:30am. Today I did not feel better after the meeting like I did last time a couple of weeks ago. After that I stopped by the hospital where my sister-in-law had a baby yesterday. I brought some gifts and stayed there for a while, holding the baby the whole time. He is a very beatiful baby and reminded me of my son when he was born almost three years ago. It was one of the happiest days in my life. I thought H was very happy that time too, but now we are going through this. The whole thing again made me feel very sad.

Do guys get emotional too? Probably not as much as women, huh. Because if I were H, even if I feel like I do not love my spouse anymore, if I see the newborn and his proud parents, it will certainly remind me of our OWN experience and I will feel sad and want that back. But I don't think that is how H thinks.

Then I went to grocery shopping. Came home, there was a message from H "I left my iPod so I will swing by later on today. Just let me know when you are home".

When I was out last night I called H from the bar and talked to H breifly and to DS2. H must have heard the background noise but did not even ask whether I was out or not. Did not even care.

So according to the famous Carol's story that was linked to EAV's thread (the one from 2002), reverse psycology can work in some cases and H could REASONABLY assume that I came home really late or who knows might have not be home yet this morning, but H did not ask anything about that at all in his message.

I am having quite depressing Sunday today.

milk,

refresh my memory (Didn't go back and re-read your post but i think i remember) haven't people been advicing you to use plan B? I've been gining this plan lots of though as i am wondering when/if to use it myself.

As i recall, you and i have a similar situation because our husband's are very detached and have clearly stated they are moving on and want a divorce. We both think that we need to rebuil some feelings of attachment before we do anything to risk losing even more. (why I am using plan A and 180's)

BUT...there are some big differences about our situations that makes me think you have lots of reason to still have hopw and that the plan B advice might be a good idea.

(i'd like the others who read your posts to give thier opinions please)

1. your husband has only been gone a few months so he is still attached (even if he became detached while still at home-it's not been that long and this is common from what i've read.My husband had years before he left due to my depression and has been gone for 15 months)
2. your husband is not having an affair (right?) this is a big bonus!
3. your son-children create attachment

from what i've read (if i understand)plan B will let your husband see what it would be like if you were really divprces-no contact!! and this may cause him to rethink what he wants.

here is some info from another site:




anyway...what i get from this is:
"they won't know or care what they are losing until they really face losing us!"

maybe a good thing to consider is...
if you know you can have something (or someone) anytime you want-how much do you really want it? how much are you willing to do to get it? and if you get it does it really matter all that much?

if you can't have something...you think about it constantly-can't seem to stop-and you really want it and you want it bad. how much are you willing to do to get it? and if you do get it...how are you going to hang onto it?


lately what i'm coming to believe is that what you and i are doing is giving them this message:



i think this is pretty pathetic myself. makes me start to rethink what i'm doing. Haven't changed anything yet but at least i'm thinking. I'm not so sure many people would want to come back to someone who is so easy to get and so willing to give.

i'd appreciate any thoughts about this for milk and myself. also please let me know if i have the wrong idea about plan B!
(minecan go on my thread if you don't want to borrow milk's)

I was taking a nap (remember I slept only three and a half hours last night) this afternoon. The phone rang. I knew it was H so did not answer. H wants to come by to pick up his iPod. Because I did not answer my phone, my cell phone rang immediately after. It is downstairs and I am in bed so the phone was not answered. Then the home phone rang again. I thought H might leave another message but did not. Within 5-10 minutes, the home phone rang again. Then the cell phone. Then the home phone again. So far six times within 5-10 minutes.

This is H's very typical behavior. When he wants something (in this case iPod), he wants it NOW and cannot wait. H is very impatient and impulsive. I am not a psycologist, but what does this mean? I am telling my sleepy brains to THINK, use this wisely. Can I use this (H'S impatientness and impulsiveness) somehow to yield something I like?

I am still sooooooooooo tired and out of it that my head is not working properly, but thought answering the phone right now was not a good thing. H cannot assume I am always home, waiting for his calls. Besides, if I did not go out last night and was not this tired, I was going to go out this evening anyway.

I thought about this - what if I dressed up really nice and would call him back later before dinner time - and tell H that I just got the message but need to go out again and ask H to come pick up his iPod real quick.

But then I feel really tired. I feel I have no more energy left to fight this. I don't think I can pretend and play this kind of game.

I checked two more book stores but they did not have the book OXSgirl recommended. I may have to order it. Does anyone have any thoughts on how and when I should be returning H's calls?

milkshake,
did you read my post above? any thoughts?

i think no contact might be good for you. his repeated calling is a good example-he wants what he wants now!

when he does not get it-he panics and workes harder to get it faster.

maybe this would work if he found out he couldn't have you?

Eav, for some reason I did not get your post above until now. I will read it and get back. Thanks.

Okay, I read it Eav. You know, ever since the whole thing happened, I have always had two very conflicting ideas. One was telling me to be less available, and one was telling me to make up for whatever the crime I committed in the past.

You may think our situations are different, but I think they are pretty similar. Yes we have a son, but unfortunately H's attachment to DS2, which is strong but is not as NEARLY as strong as mine. I think that is why IN GENERAL, men often leave their children more than mothers do. So I don't know how much I can leverage on that factor.

Anyway, going back to our "strategies". It is difficult to do "oh I am moving on with my life without you" strategy without showing any emotional weakness nor fear nor anger. It scares you because you feel like this is the last card you've got. If my H does not respond to this one, then that's it.

Oh I want to write more but H just called (I called him back about 10 minutes ago and left him a message on his cell but it sounded like H just called without knowing that I had called him back) and will be here in 15 minutes or so. So I'd better prepare myself. I am dressed up. It turned out the guy I met on the train left me a couple of message on my cell asking me out tonight, so even though I haven't called him back and I have no idea if I want to go out with this guy or not, in a way I feel good that I am not entirely lying about going out for dinner tonight to H.

I am so scared though. H may not even notice that I am dressed up (sort of kind of, not very much - well I usually dress neat anyway so it does not add much for me to 'dress up'). Or H could really care less other than his iPod. Then I know I would be SOOOOOOOOO hurt. But anyway, I've got to go. I will update.

H just came by and picked up his iPod. He didn't say anything other than "thanks" for it. He didn't even look at me. It took us only three seconds to do this. He rang the door bell, I came down, got the iPod and went to the door and gave it to him. He said thanks, then turned around and left.

My fear became real. H DOES NOT CARE! Whether I am dating or not, H does not care. H was always worried about me falling in love with someone else while we were married, but he never actually worried that I sleep around. I am just not that kind of person and he knew it. He was more worried about EA than PA. So maybe EVEN IF H actually noticed that I was dressed up and look like I might go out, he might thought it would be with my girlfriends or even if it is with a guy, probably H knows that I would not just sleep with him.

Or H really could care less about that. Now I kind of want to go out with the guy who called, but do not want to use him to fill in the hole in my heart. It is not fair to him but also I do not want him to take advantage of me when I feel so vulnerable. I think I will just stay in. Although this guy sensed that I do not want to date him, and he told me yesterday he is not trying to date, he only wants to get to know me and us to become friends. Not that I really believe that, but since he even said in the message today "this is not a date, I just want to go out to dinner with you", so it is okay....??? As long as he remains in the friendship territory, I am fine with that.

I am just so hurt that I could use some guy's attention, as a friend. That is what it is. Bad?

i know milkshake-it hurts

i've gotten all dolled up everytime my husband comes over-not like i'm going out but i always have my hair and makeup done and i wear something he's never seen and it's something that shows off the weight i've lost and my tan

three times he's complimented me in 15 months-i recall each one
1. you look nice-you've lost more weight
2. those jeans look nice on you
3. (last week)you look good-have you lost more weight
(oh yeah-the other woman weighs what I USED TO before i lost weight-go figure that)

for the first 10 months he would comeand stay a few hours then the time decreased gradually until the last few were just long enough to pick up a dog. and again...i'd spent a long time getting ready.

here's a good one-when he came to get the dog last sunday-he had written a nasty letter telling me that he preferred that i not be here when he came. of course if you've read my posts, you know we started talking nicely after that but i wanted to show him that i respected his wishes. so I got all dressed upjust to go sit in the park cause i left him a letter saying that i was giving him time alone to visit the dogs sincehe hasn't seen them in 3 months.He could call if he neededme to come and take theone dog for a walk as he left with the other (the one that does not go gets very worked up). so i got all dressed nicely and of course..he came and went-and called me after he left. He drove 1 1/2 hours each way and did not even want to spend 1 1/2 minutes of time with me.

maybe you're right-we are in similar situations:(

but still no affair means alot-are you 100% sure about this?

and i agree with you about plan B-it sounds very scary!!

When I told H about the baseball game I took DS2 with last Monday, H did not even ask who I went with. H knows there is no way I would just take our son alone. H does not care. H decided we are only married on the paper but moving onto two separate paths. So he does not ask.

Now it makes me think - maybe H was being truthful when he said he does not want to BS anymore. H used to tell me things only b/c he knew they would please me but never meant them. So his asking me frequently "don't fall in love with this guy" "be careful with him", etc., while we were happily (or at least when it seemed on the surface) married did not mean anything. H felt that I wanted him to worry and he said all that. So now the true H came up - he really does not care!!!

My friend I went out with last night has been telling me to get the lawyer and be done with it. He told me months ago "H is gone, this is hard for you to hear, but it is over, you need to move on". He is a very smart individual and probably right. My best friend has been telling me the same thing too. He says flat out "I hate your H and could careless about him". He does not want me to be married to him b/c he thinks H has way too many personal issues and thinks I deserve more. My whole family feels the same way. My therapists say the same thing.

Ironically it seems I am the only one who does not see things that way. That pisses me off really.... Why do I want someone who does not want me? Well we all know it is not so easy to erase someone completely from your memory and system.

Anyway, I remained calm and pleasant during this three second visit tonight. At least that. H could not even look at me b/c he knows he is hurting me. Maybe he saw the deep sadness and hurt all through my fake "happiness". Whatever. Nothing is stopping him so far.

no one is really supporting me either. The psople who care about us just don't want to see us continuing to hurt.

only WE can decide when we have hurt enough that it has changed our desire to be with our husbands again.

I'm not there yet.

i asked a question in my post

are you 100% sure there is no affair?

just wondering because i also thought my husband left to be alone-to move on without me.

everyone told me-men don't leave if they aren't going to something. thye were right in my case.

Mimi asked a while back if there is anyone else. I don't really know. H does not tell anyone about anything so I don't know. H might be dating someone, but it may not be serious yet. But again I really don't know.

I agree in general that men do not leave unless there is someone else. Especially knowing H - he can't live alone. But he has proven that he can. And like he said about a month ago "It's okay, the life is not all about finding a woman and get stuck in the relationship. I am not afraid of being alone and I am not afraid of dying alone". This statement makes me believe that H would like to move on EVEN IF he is alone.

Having said that, when he told me about "moving on" on November 29, he said (even though I did not even ask b/c I did not think that was the case) "there is no other woman, just so that you know". But in reality, there was. H fell in love with the young college girl he met at church. Later when I confronted this H said "I lied b/c I wanted to protect her". H did not care about protecting ME, but HER! So even though it was not mutual feelings and nothing technically happened, H did have someone and lied about it.

So it is VERY possible that H is in love with someone, whether it is only in his fantasy world or for real, and he is lying about it. It is just that it sounds like his place is a mess all the time, and I did not think he would bring his brand new girlfriend to a messy apartment thus concluding that he does not have anyone that serious yet. I could be wrong, of course.

Yeah, probably H has someone at least in his mind that he loves.

H called after he got home. I was on the phone with my friend but hung up so that H could leave me a message. I did that b/c I was supposed to be out! If the phone keeps ringing, H knows that I am home talking on the phone.

H was asking about his passport. H asked about it when he was here yesterday. But I gave it to him right after H moved out. That time H asked me for it b/c he said he would need it to open a new bank account. I am not sure if H was lying or not. My suspecion was that H was looking for DS2's passport, b/c once he takes it away from me, I can't sneakly take DS2 outside of this country. I was not going to do that anyway, and it did not even occur to me when H was looking for his passport three months ago. So I just found his and gave it to him. The idea that H was probably looking for DS2's passport instead came to me later.

Anyway, so H has it. I told him yesterday "do you remember when you moved out you said you needed it so I gave it to you?" H said "oh".

But in his message he was saying "I can't find it so it must be there so can you find it?"

I wanted to believe H called to check on me to see if I was truly out, but my friend told me not to speculate and hold up expectations so high. So H did call for real looking for his passport.

It's another typical behavior of H. He looses everything, b/c he is just so disorganized. Apparently he has a one-bedroom apartment. How can he loose so many things in a small place?

I will call him back or email him back tomorrow and tell him that I do not have his passport.

why would he need his passport now? I'd at least give some weight to the possibility that he called to check to see if you were home considering you've already given it to him. Sounds like an excuse to me!

my husband also mad it sound as though he was so lonely in his little one bedroom place with nothing to do and almost no furniture since i let him take very little.

well...when i drove by last week-it looked much different hat when he moved in around nov (i drove by then after he had been there a month) there were flowers planeted in the front yard, aflowery wreath on the door, a flowered welcom mat, a flag with flowers on it, and TWO chairs side by side on the front porch.

he also told me that he had nothing to do-and no one to do anything with. Now i know he's been golfing, biking, going to dinner, hanging out at the bars, and hanging out at his friends housewith the other woman all along.

i really believed the crap he told me and i even felt soory for him. sorry that i had made him so unhappy that he would rather live"alone in misery" than here with me.

yeah...right

now he is saying that the affair is over and he still wants to move on-alone.

i actually think i'm going to have the PI try to find out if he is still seeing the other woman. I may call him back tomorrow.

like you...idon't have any idea how it is possible for him to haveno feelings left for me. I don't care who is supporting me-this is what I want so i'm not giving up. I'll try whatever i can until the judge says he's not my husband anymore.

and anyway...what else do i have to do with my time? (ha! ha!)

Eav, I want to believe that the passport thing was H's coverup and he was just checking on me. But since he brought it up yesterday, saying that he was going to CA for business from the 19th through that Sunday and he needs his passport, I don't think he was just making up his story unfortunately. Now the questions are:

(1) why does he need his passport to go to CA? All he needs is his drivers licence (and of course H knows).

(2) going to CA for business? During the weekend?

Is there other reason why he wants his passport? Also, is he really going to CA for business?

Those questions absolutely drive me crazy, and my friend told me to stop torturing myself. He said H told me that he is going to CA for bussiness, so just let it be. Oh, I don't remember if I wrote this, but yesterday while H was mowing the grass, I was trying to look inside H's car to get any kind of clues. H's car was much cleaner than last time I saw it. And on the passenger seat side, there were foot prints at the bottom! I was trying to figure out if they belong to female or male but could not. Then I saw this paperback in the back seat. H is a history/war freak, and he reads every night and it is always about history or wars. But this book did not seem like one of those. I could not really see the title but it was PINK! What kind of book is that? Is H possibly reading a romance book??? No way!

In the end I could not get any firm signs of A, but it was clear that someone was sitting in the passenger seat. One good thing was that I was not sure if H really did have the oil change appointment before coming to pick up DS2, but I saw the receipt from the dealership, so at least H was not lying about the oil change.

I hate catching myself snooping around like that too. I felt pretty low. Man, why do I need him? Why can't I move on? This man REPEATEDLY told me that he is done with me and he wants to move on without me. Why do I keep denying the fact? I should have some dignity, and it is very amazing b/c I am a VERY proud person, and it is so UNLIKE myself being clingy like this.

So even though your H said his A is over (how did he put it - did you ask?), you suspect that is might be still continuing, huh. If there were flowers and nice door mat and everything, yeah, it smells of a woman a lot!

But honestly, I don't know if my H not being engaged in a real A (my guess, I could be wrong) is all that helpful. If H is with a real woman, she will have flaws too but if I am competing against H's fantasy woman, there is no way I can win! She IS perfect!

H's ultimate ideal woman is his biological mother who passed away when he was 22 months old. I have seen her pictures, and she was not like a stunningly beautiful woman, but in H's mind, she was the most beautiful and perfect woman. Ever since we got married, every time H sees beautiful girls - even though they all look VERY different - he always told me "wow, that girl reminds me of mommy XX (that is how he and his siblings call their mother, to distinguish her from their step mom)". I remember thinking "how in a world is that possible? She looks completely different from the other girl you said looks like your mom a few days ago!" The young college girl H had crush on last fall also (according to H) resembled H's mother. One time I told H "I cannot compete against your mom. She is dead and because of that she is perfect. I am not perfect" H did not say anything about my comment.

Anyway, we are spending so much time thinking about what happened, how we are feeling and how our WS's might be thinking, what might happen in our future, etc., and our WH's are probably just enjoying themselves.

Who said there is justice? My therapist said "life is not about fairness, it is not fair, it is about who is smarter". She said that b/c she wanted me to take actions (freeze up H's bank accounts, etc, which I never did) to protect myself.

I really feel the pressure now within myself that I need to take the first legal step.... I have identified the lawyer I want.... so just do it.... Aaaaaagh! My therapist suggested that I don't do anything till the end of this month but am I just delaying the whole thing? I think I know what you guys would tell me......

Another week. I just called H back. I told him about the passport and he said "well then it must be still in my car".

Before I asked him, H started to talk about how the weekend went with DS2. He went into details as to what they ate, did outside, what video they watched, etc. It was all pleasant. I have noticed this pattern. Every time H has DS2, he is happy and often voluntarily calls or emails me just to let me know how things went.

Then I asked him if H could start calling DS2 on a regular basis at certain time. This was suggested by my counselor for the sake of DS2. H said okay, I will call him then Monday night and Wednesday night and during the weekend. I was secretly hurt that H excluded Friday night b/c that indicates he has "dates". But then the good thing is that H mentioned "well I can't call on Thursday at a good time, b/c you know, I have the thing". THE THING he was referring to is his SA group counseling. So H is still doing it! I was happy to learn that.

Of course I did not bring up any relationship issues, and thus the whole conversation went very smoothly and pleasant. We even laughed a bit about some of the things DS2 says.

I kind of wanted to imply that I did not get H's message till late, so said quickly "yeah, it was late when I got your message and did not want to call back and end up waking DS2 up", but H seemed he didn't even hear what I said. That hurts!

So even though I had a pleasant conversation with H, I feel like it is more of evidence that H has moved on and that is why we acted this way and he did not care about my whereabouts. When am I ever going to be able to accept that our M is over??