I hope you poor clueless guys don't mind, but I am using this quote from another thread to start this EXCELLENT post. Single ladies, I am calling on you to help out these poor fellas and TELL THEM the cues you like.

When I am dating a gentleman, first and foremost, I date a GENTLEMAN. To me, that means someone who is a little old-fashioned and does those courting things like give me a flower (not a bouquet, but one), open a door, or hold out my chair. And yes, if he's a high-caliber gentleman who holds my interest a bit, I would like to see some sort of expression that he is interested in me and/or finds me attractive.

I can tell you one thing that is a HUGE, ENORMOUS turn-off, no-no right away, and that is pressure for sex on the very first date. NO!! Do not go there! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

On the first date, appropriate cues might be leaning forward, looking right into my eyes, and maybe holding hands as we walk...something along that line. Now, you gauge the woman you are with, but if you don't do some sort of something, she'll think you're not interested at all. So do a little. It never hurts to hear a compliment: "Wow, you look great!" or "Your hair looks beautiful!" and make sure you really feel it, not just a fake compliment.

As things progress a little, the way I prefer to have a kiss or a hug, etc. is to ask me. "May I have a kiss?" It's sweet and it's checking to see if I'm okay with it and it's expressing that you are interested. See how nice that is? It's respectful. First kiss should be a decent closed-lips kiss...not super short, but not real long and lingering either. Then, if I'm interested, I may initiate the next kiss.

Saying things like "If I were your husband you'd be late for work" don't generally work for me: A) it's a little over the top, and B) I don't want to lose my job because you're the horny type. heehee. So I'd keep comments to something like, "You look like an angel" or even, "Oh, I just find you so pretty!" "Your eyes are so lively when you smile" "I love the way you look" "Boy, you sure start my motor running." Hotter stuff could be saved for later on in exclusive dating, and of course for between the sheets! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Soooooo...there's my 2 cents on giving the clueless some clues. Hope that helps!


FNCJ

lol - stuff like this sounds exactly like me when I was dating my wife - needless to say; it does work guys...

Although it has to be genuine - you can't really fake being a gentlemen...well; maybe you can, but if thats your intention is only to get sex - then you're a scum bag <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Let me take a shot at this, too...

All women are going to be a little different, but yes, I agree we all want to know you guys are interested. For me, actions speak a lot louder than words. Eye contact, looking them straight in the eye is good.

Also good...leaning toward me when talking to me, or just standing or sitting close. Lightly brushing an arm or something against my arm.

I agree with Faith...no thinking they're going to get sex on the first date (or before marriage, in my case). But I agree, taking this from what Guy #1 did that worked so well (before we freaked each other out and he ditched me)...making sure that maybe his leg was sort of touching mine when we were sitting beside each other, or on our third date, actually slipping an arm lightly around the back of my chair while we were listening to some acoustic guitar (that was a very nice touch...go to a patio bar somewhere after dark, breeze blowing, some little twinkly lights hanging above, a cool marguerita or just soda if you like), then make sure when you're talking that you talk quietly enough that you have to lean over fairly close to her. He would get close enough that I could feel the temperature of his body, but not close enough to actually be touching me. Sort of a teasing thing. And always making eye contact.

Trust me, this worked very well. I will not elaborate on the results other than to say that by the end of the night, I was feeling mighty good. (NO, nothing happened other than kissing, and that was fairly mild. But trust me, I knew at least at that point that he was interested.)

I'm rather shy, and it's hard for me to make the first move as a woman, to kiss someone, at least until I know them (then it could become a different story). I want a man to show me he's interested. If he makes no moves...doesn't even try to give me so much as a hug by our 2nd date, I'd be thinking I wasn't too interesting to him.

Thanks for the tips, ladies!

Please keep 'em coming!

I especially like the suggestion from LL to speak softly and lean forward - almost touch - just enough to feel the warmth. I can see that - and I don't think it's likely to freak anybody out.

What about (in winter) while helping with the coat, a lingering touch on the shoulder?

And ladies, don't forget to include suggestions for situations where you are not on a date and not together - like running into somebody while shopping - or intereacting with somebody you work with.

Oh, and FNCJ, please explain how exactly to get ahold of that hand I'm supposed to be holding while walking? What is the procedure?

-AD (who is still married)

LOL AD,

When first dating, my husband would walk beside me and reach over and slip his hand into mine. He didn't grab at me, just a gentle touch of the fingers which says he wants to hold my hand. (and yes, he still does this)

Even when opening a door gently placing your hand on the small of her back as she walks in the door.

I'm not one for kissing on the first date, A good night hug if she's comfortable with that, and maybe a peck on the cheek on the first date. And just letting her know you had fun and enjoyed her company (if you did) and asking if you can call her again sometime is a good sign. Then call in a couple of days, unless of course you met somewhere on the first date then you could call when you got home to make sure she got home safely.

Shortly after my divorce I met a guy while I was out with some lady friends, he asked if he could call me sometime, and I gave him my number. When we were leaving he walked us out to our car, and gave me his business card w/ any and every phone number written on it he could think of for me to contact him at, and then he called that night to make sure I got home okay and we ended up talking for over an hour. He was a really nice and a very good looking man, I called him a few times after that and he called me and we had a lot in common, he could make me laugh, but then I never went out w/ him, Not that he didn't ask, but because I didn't like his job choice (an instructor at the FLETC in GA) which required a LOT of travel, and the fact he could have been called into the line of duty at any time and any long term relationship would have required I move and I wasn't willing to put myself through that. But, I certainly knew he was interested.

If your out and notice them across the room or store, you could make eye contact, smile and just a nod of the head in acknowledgement. (think westerns when the men would tip their hats to the ladies in acknowledgement of their presence) which is actually what the FTELC instructor did when he first noticed me across the room, then about ten minutes later came over and started talking to me.

So there are various things you can do to get a ladies attention and let her know your interested.

Thanks TR,

Maybe we should start wearing hats again - just so we can tip them to the ladies.

In my case, when my w and I were "courting", after a certain point, she just couln't keep her hands (nor lips) off me. So, I didn't have to do anything. (except say "no" from time to time.) Then, after things got all weirded out in our marriage, there was often such a level of tension over everything that I was scared off. So, I think this is an area, even within marriage, that I have sadly neglected. I'm imagining all kinds of scenarios where I could have done more to make her feel wanted as a woman - and wondering what would have happened if I had paid more attention to this. (too late now)

I did often complement her and make little comments, but I think it was not enough and not consistently enough.

Under the influence of this discussion (right here on MB:ADDR), I was inspired to try a little experiment. Not like it was a new thing, but under the circumstances, it's not something I do often these days:

This morning as I dropped my daughter off at my wife's place, WW was still wearing PJ's. (I gave them as a 2003 Christmas gift.) I said "I remember those pajamas.... I remember the woman who fills them too." She just smiled.

By the way, she looks FINE! <sigh>

-AD

PS. REALLY FINE! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I would have thought that a lady would take that as desparation. You didn't mind? Hmmm??? I surprises me that you liked this. I guess all of his other cues must have indicated that he was self-confident.

-AD

AD,

**I would have thought that a lady would take that as desparation. You didn't mind? Hmmm??? I surprises me that you liked this. I guess all of his other cues must have indicated that he was self-confident.**

TR--Like I said, I thought it was odd, but yes with the other clues it described him as confident which is why I took the card and didn't just throw it away when I walked in the door.

Well, you understand that I can only speak for myself here, but that's the kind of thing I just love: the touch on the shoulder...the hand on the small of the back...just touching hands on the table... Just so you know, those little incidental touches, when you don't pull away, are a very good, non-scary way to express interest without it feeling like all you're interested in is "sexual".


Okay--here's an example. I go to a certain coffee shop almost every morning because their daily special is $2.00 (and that's within my budget--heehee). So every day I get to try a new and different latte for $2, and almost every day I see other regulars there. Several times I saw a fella there and we'd talk while we stood in line. The conversations started by one or the other of us asking, "Are you going to try the daily special?"--something generic like that. Pretty soon we'd talk about "how was your day yesterday" or "Boy I need this coffee this morning"...you know. Finally, one day I just asked him if he'd like to do something this weekend--maybe go to dinner?

Here's my honest advice about this one: practice talking on a friendly level to people you run into in your normal day. Practice sticking your neck out there and saying, "Oh, I like your car!" or "How do you tell if these are ripe?" or some other appropriate, generic conversation starter. Just practice putting yourself "out there" a little. Now...I myself am an introvert--I love people and want to relate, but I feel nervous starting that first conversation...so I just DO IT.


Procedure, huh? You aren't a THINKER or anything are you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

The ways that have worked for me that I really enjoyed were gentle and not forceful. My favorite is walking along beside each other, just let your fingers touch and then then slip hands together...smooth and graceful. Another good option is sitting by each other at the movie theater, her hand on her knee, yours on your knee...just move your hand onto her hand and smile. Don't be grabby...don't be bending fingers and "grip" her hand...use a kinda flat hand and a smooth, soft touch and just slip it in there.

Any more scenarios or procedures? heehee <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />



FNCJ

Sexual clues:

1) Kisses on the hand.Seems like a lost art to me.

2) Stroke of the hair.I love to have my hair touched so that to me is a nice segue into something more intimate.

3)Eye to eye contact.There is nothing more upsetting while being with a man than when he has a roving eye or is just too weak to pass up looking at some other woman while he is with you.I would get up,excuse myself and walk out if that happened.May seem extreme to some but for me,it is humiliating and insensitive when you are developing a union with another person(BF/GF).Yes there are plenty of attractive other people on the planet and there always will be but if you can't keep focused on the one you are with,don't portend to be interested if all you want to do is browse.

4) Hand holding is very nice but what I like even more is when a man gives you his arm to hold.It sounds terribly old fashioned I guess but I do like the idea of being "protected" and taken care of by a strong man.Not that I cannot take care of myself mind you but like the old movies and romantic books,I do want something of a "Knight in shining armor" "idea". That to me is very romantic and intimate.

5) Nice clothing and cologne.That to me says the man cares about his appearance and takes care of himself.Not always wearing cologne but at certain times.

6)Dancing! I think this is a great precursor to a night of passion.Not only are you engaging in an intimate way but you have music to help stimulate the senses and fantasies and also I think being close without expectation right away is very arousing.Nothing kills a moment for me and my women friends more than if a guy expects sex right off the bat and doesn't take time to be romantic first.Never first date sex.That isn't appropriate to me.I want to get to know someone first and be friends and then get closer when I feel safe.

7) Also,something like saying,"I really want to be close to you" means to me that a man is interested.Not,"Lets go have sex" but something that evokes a more intimate step but isn't so blatant.

Is it getting hot in here or what?? LOL

That's my two cents.

O

All of these suggestions are wonderful but having been "without" a man in my life for more than a year now all this reading about touching, closeness, body heat, etc. is getting to be too much! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

These are great. Ditto to most of them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

A little more word to all you wonderful wise gentlemen..... as we have all learned in this wonderful MB-world.... there's a little more to it, cuz I guess all women respond generally to a basic set of warm, respectful, genuine, gentleman-ly charming gestures....

but.....

we ARE all different... have different EN's... and have different Love Languages. If you men can tune in to your lady's specific needs and languages, you will have more success. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

So... while your MB friends here may be giving you some ideas of what we like, keep your mind, heart, and eyes open to the giggles, grins, and eyelash-flutters of the woman you are pursuing, to learn what SHE likes.

To use "Love Language" terminology, some have mentioned "Acts of Service" - opening doors, taking our coat, moving our chair, etc. ..... some have mentioned "physical touch" - hand-holding, touch on the shoulder, small of the back, etc. While these are nice, and every woman probably enjoys these (I sure do too!!!) , some enjoy these more than others. Of course there's "Gifts" also - roses, chocolates, fur coats, jaguars... <giggle> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

There's also attention. I guess "quality time", and "words of affirmation", to use love language terminology. Taking time to think of me during the day - to send a quick e-mail saying hello or hows your day or thinking of you.... and taking time to listen to me talk about my day.... and taking time to spend with me... These things mean a lot to me, brings us closer, lets me know you really do care about me, and opens me up to to whatever else you might have on your mind, or whatever else might enter my mind later. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I'm all over that one! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> 18 months for me now, and I'm expecting it to be a lot longer. I'm going to have to quit reading this particular thread!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

(By the way, forgot about the "small of the back" one, until someone mentioned it. That's another personal favorite.)

Since somebody already posted some Dorothy Parker on GDP's thread, here's one you probably all know.


One Perfect Rose

A single flower he sent me, since we met.
All tenderly his messenger he chose;
Deep-hearted, pure, with scented dew still wet--
One perfect rose.

I knew the language of the floweret;
"My fragile leaves," it said, "his heart enclose."
Love long has taken for his amulet
One perfect rose.

Why is it no one ever sent me yet
One perfect limousine, do you suppose?
Ah no, it's always just my luck to get
One perfect rose.

I personally would feel awkward if a man actually asked permission to kiss me, and I'm not really the holding hands kind of gal.

However, here's what I do like in a man to whom I'm attracted....
when he lingers over helping me with my coat
when he brings me flowers or a little something
when he looks at me intently but still looks away
when he puts his hands into the peanut bowl the exact minute I do
when a man subtly gives me the once over
compliments are nice when heartfelt
and finally a good night kiss that starts soft and gently but gets eletric and leaves me wanting more.

After reading the other ladies responses - you guys better be good as honing in on what works for who..As another poster stated we are all different..
)
2) Stroke of the hair.I love to have my hair touched so that to me is a nice segue into something more intimate.
Don't even think about touching my hair..LOL..I spend time fixing it a certain way for "public viewing" and I don't want it messed with..Now if we are alone - that's different.

Eye to eye contact.There is nothing more upsetting while being with a man than when he has a roving eye or is just too weak to pass up looking at some other woman while he is with you.I would get up,excuse myself and walk out if that happened.May seem extreme to some but for me,it is humiliating and insensitive when you are developing a union with another person(BF/GF).Yes there are plenty of attractive other people on the planet and there always will be but if you can't keep focused on the one you are with,don't portend to be interested if all you want to do is browse.
Since my STBXH is a MASTER at doing this - please guys..DON"T DO IT..It's rude and if another woman can distract you so easily - then you are wasting both our time...This is a HUGE offense to me..since it was done to me for many years..Like what I was saying, thinking, etc. didn't matter..someone "maybe" more interesting or better looking just walked in.For years I ignored it..Now it will be treated as a huge RED FLAG..His excuse was "I'm observant"... Please, your a dog..plain and simple..

Yes - Look me in the eye when you speak to me...Make your eyes sparkle and shine for me..Like I was the one that lite them up...

Feel free to compliment me on my looks, clothes, attitude, sense of humor, etc. Just don't go overboard..Space them apart a bit.I want to feel that all the time I spent working on myself for you - paid off..both physically and emotionally

If it's a first date - don't come on to strong about sex - you can make jokes, you can even say that that you are attracted to me but say it nicely...no vulgar language...No, drooling..It just makes you appear "needy" for sex..

If your D - don't spend the nite talking about your X...and how she destroyed you..Talk about what you've done to improve yourself and what you've learned through all this..If you were the one that had an A - own it..I'd rather have a guy tell me he did the wrong thing - then justify it by telling me his XW was 300lbs. or just a royal PITA..

Pick up on what seems to be important to me...Ask questions - If I lead with something I like to do - ask about it..how, why, when, etc...I will feel more at ease if you show an interest in things I like..and I'll do the same for your side of the conversation.

If we met somewhere - walk me to my car, wait till it starts..sounds simple but my STBXH always just drove off..Another RED FLAG.

Call to see if I made it home OK..

If you are truly intersted in me - text message the next day or call..tell me you enjoyed the time we spent together - it will make me feel that I said and did the right things too..

Holding hands, a light touch on the shoulder, arm, is nice.Shows you have the potential to be warm. Feel free to flirt alittle..

To me - opening car doors, pulling out chairs, allowing me to sit first, order first, buy the first drink,etc. is standard...

A kiss on the cheek is sufficient and respectful..It will keep me wondering about our next "date"...

I am so glad to be reading all of this reinforcing knowledge...I knew some of these things, some are new and I am filing them away.

It is UNBELIEVABLY callous to "eyeball" other women if you are out on a date!! I never did it either time I was married, but my brother does it ALL the TIME!! It wa making me uncomfortable because I know my SIL must not like it but she does put up with it...

It gives me great hope in finding someone becasue I don't do those rude things! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

However, I do have my "other issues" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> like being a reformed WH.

I must say, I am looking forward to meeting a REAL woman who means what she say! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

WNB

After many years of "watching" WH do this and my never saying anything..I pushed a button last week.

We went out for dinner/drink and I saw him turn around while I was sitting there no less to look at this blonde..He couldn't get a good look from his angle..When she got up to leave AGAIN he turned and looked..I nicely/smuggly said " Oh, do you know that woman"..he says No, Do you......What a total jerk..He just reinforced why I need to D him...

His "looking" only really bothered me when I realized he wasn't "just looking"..He was scoping out his "next victim"..

However, I do have my "other issues" like being a reformed WH

WHNBS - This isn't an issue anymore for you..You learnt just like I did from my mistake..I recently met a man that point blank told me he had an A and what transpired after - typical A - he left his wife - OW didn't want him full time - now he's "still single"..I thought it was great that he told me about his fault and owned it...I talked quite openly about my prior fault and the current status of my M -actually he seemed impressed that I was so knowledgeable about A's. It's the person who changed- saw the light, whatever that is attractive not the guy/girl that just keeps missing the boat, over and over again. I truly found this guy interesting and I was very at ease conversing with him..though, it's just a friendly thing - nothing more..

Glad to see your back - hope you had a nice 2 week vacation..

Hugs

WNB,

next time you see your brother do this, call him on it. Ask him why he must make a fool of himself not only in front of his wife, but to others who are present, by looking at other women when he has the love of his life sitting next to him.

Let him know how lucky he is to have a wife who loves him so much, and who has not yet left his side when he acts so disrespectfully towards her. And let him know, if he continues that behavior she may not be sitting by his side later, but sitting next to someone else.

CALL HIM ON HIS BEHAVIOR!! Let him know it's disrespectful,
that to me is a man I'd want to go out with, someone who is NOT afraid to call someone on such things, even if it's their own family.

Your brother may not even think it bothers his wife, he may think that because she's never said anything it's "okay" and his wife may not say anything because Nobody has ever stood up for her before.

It was a good time! I didn't talk to STBXW at ALL! I had one dream about STBXW while I was out there...the scenario was that I overheard guys talking about how she was getting around with numerous sex partners...I was rattled for a couple of days after that. I CANNOT control ANYTHING she does, but I DO want her to take her last name back. That way any $h!tty behavior will then be on the SINGLE STBXW, not the one cheating under her husbands nose.

I still wonder sometimes how many people over there knew what she was doing while she thought she was being "sneaky"? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I just want her OUT of my life ENTIRELY!!!!!

Good for you and your nice time with that GENTLEMAN! I still believe in the Marriage institution, but I am approaching it with WAY more caution than I have the last two times. Even though this last one turned out to be an illusion, it did show the what it CAN be. I have learned a LOT about myself and what I expect in an M and I still miss the closeness that only TWO people can share.

I think you'll find that happiness too...gotta be REALLY careful! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Take Care,

WNB