No ofcourse not...but you just should stop hounding her and trying to find any reason to talk to her or seem clingy. I don't think there is anything more of a turn off than "clinginess" or "neediness".

For the record, I don't really have the foggiest clue (pun intended) of how to do a by the book "Plan A" as practiced by many here. I don't purport to know that. My advice to you is not out of the Harley books or from any conversations with him. I thought you should know that. There are a plethora of people here who can school you in the Plan A "tactics" and "strategies"...just not me.

My general point is for you to NOT show her the neediness side of you that you have done in the past. This is in my opinion your biggest flaw and weakness with her. When you are with her, you show her strength. You show her humor, and you SHOW her that you are fully capable and able and (Willing) to get on with your life without her, if she so chooses. DON'T SAY ANY OF THIS, it will mean $hit. You have to show her. Don't let her think that that you are sitting away at home pining away for her, or extrapolate any kernel of affection she shows you and smother her. Hang with her, be funny, be happy, but don't start with all of the "I love you" B$ and the like. DOn't drag out staying with her. Let her see some of this side of you, and them get moving on to the other things in your life. Your wayward wife (if she wants reconciliation in the end) WANTS TO WANT YOU. She wants to desire you. LET HER DO THAT. You haven't let her do this yet. NOW IS THE TIME TO START.

BOL,

SOur........ <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

No game face, necessary, Fox. She calls and invites you out and you want to go, then go! Treat her like you would your best friend and that you're glad to be with her, like Weaver said. Be attentive, happy, and fun to be with.

Then let her contact you again. If she seems irritated you didn't call, assure her you had a great time and you were going to call and see if she'd like to get together again for her birthday? Don't mention that you know she thinks her friends don't care about her birthday.... let her draw her own comparison between her uncaring friends and her loving husband!

What does she like to do? Theme parks? Take her for a day at one. What about something physical, an activity you have both enjoyed in the past? Canoeing down a river with a picnic lunch? I don't know, whatever you guys like to do together that provides fun interaction and will make her birthday one to remember. Just something you both enjoy and where you can be yourself.

If she doesn't call you after the first successful fun event, you can wait until, oh, the 24th and call her with your invitation of her fun-filled birthday! So she sweats it out a bit wondering what she's going to do on her bithday. Boo-hoo. Either way the invitation is made in your time. Don't discuss her birthday during the first fun time. If she brings it up, tell her you're giving it some thought. Leave it a mystery.

Hope this helps.

~ Snow

Somebody put this in the archives! I love it! Succint and to the point and wise to boot. Lemon you know Plan A better than you know.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

~ Snow

DID I REALLY WRITE THAT? What in the hell has gotten into me? Maybe it is the aliens, or something, but re-reading this makes me fearful I have been hanging around here too much. I actually truly believe this stuff now. Someone please get me 2 Xanax with water.

Sour...... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

LOL! I have to go out and do things; but after literally laughing so hard i ripped my shirt (Lord knows HOW) I NEED to respond to these posts

Well, there is a water park about an hour and a half from where we live well (from where we each live); she had mentioned wanting to go there BEFORE we separated; and I brought it up to her a while back; thought it would be fun - besides, she loves to swim.

I was planning for her birthday that I'd take her to this waterpark for the day, come back for a nice waterfront dinner and take her home - overkill for a friendly thing? After all it IS her 20th b-day...last day as a teenager. (gag me.)

Snow, Lemon, Walker - Orchid - anyone -

Is it normal now that I'm almost feeling guilty because I told my W I couldn't do anything with her? I feel like I've been so brainwashed into thinking everything in this relationship has been my fault that now I'm second guessing the phone call I made. I have this weird feeling she won't call back - even though she probably will. Is this normal for a BS?

Why do I almost feel like I'm playing some kind of game with my WS doing this? This almost feels manipulative - why is that? She sounded disappointed yesterday when I told her I couldn't hang out...is this right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Yes it is...I have recently gone through that and that urge to call her starts dropping off as my LB emptied and she made NO deposits since 03/11.

Hang tough...it will get better...busy yourself with funny movies or find a good book to read...keeps your mindoff of things.

Good luck,

WNB

WW has not contacted me in a week; I know she is not too busy to do so; so her excuse of 'being too busy' just makes me chuckle now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I have dug in and held my ground - I have not tried to contact her; nor do I have any intentions of doing so. She is exhibiting no desire to contact me, contrary to speculations earlier in the thread.

I sent the separation papers two days ago; she should have them already or by tomorrow. She is unaware I mailed them to her; sounded as if she assumed we would look over them in person. Will wait on a response from her within the next couple days; after that I will begin to wonder. lol, or will I? At this point its to be expected <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I hope everyone is having a good one and looking forward to an awesome weekend. Other than work, I'm going to spend this weekend with a good friend of mine; we've set up a Bible study and are going to go over a few books in the Bible - life has been good; I went out bought a bunch of new clothes and am currently waiting on my new bank cards so I can finish up paying the bills..

Have an awesome night guys - I'm out for the weekend!

Well,

As I sit here getting ready to go to bed; I find myself contemplating the situation at hand for the first time in 3 days, and I ask myself this:

At this point do I make the effort to establish contact? Before she left; I was quite neglectful - I don't want it to appear like I'm still being this way; I'm trying to show her these changes that we've all begun to notice in me lately and I can't do that without being around her. I understand not being clingy; but I also understand I have a little over a month before I leave...I don't have all month to sit around and "play hard to get" so to speak. Besides; am I even in a position to do this? I'm not trying to play any games with my W - I'm simply trying to be here to meet her ENs and regain her trust.

Her absence as far as contacting me is concerned sorta makes me believe that she's waiting for me to do so; however whether or not this is a test, or if its because she sincerely wants me to contact her I don't know. Either that or she simply doesn't care anymore; which makes me contemplate last week.

I could really use some opinional advice on this situation - I don't really know what to do...her B-day is in a week and a half.

Although the past week has been extremely refreshing as far as getting work done along with counseling and involving myself more in God's word - I haven't spent a single ounce of time with my W; who asked me if I wanted to hang out Mon. and Tues...

Why do I feel like I made the wrong decision here? I'm not trying to destroy things here - I'm trying to fix them...blasted world and its stupid little mind games.

Fox,

You stated you haven't spent time with your W. In reality your 'wife' has not been there for you to spend time with.

Think about letting her know you want to speak to your 'wife' and NOT the WS. Be prepared your W may not be available and only the WS is out and about for now. That will hurt but then you will know if you are wasting your time or not.

Remember learn to spot your W vs the WS mentality. You must learn to handle each personality change/encounter separately. It is a hard and confusing type of R t/b in, that is why it is critical the BS learn t/b flexible, make the plan A changes and move forward. If the WS is still a WS as plan A nears it's end, then time for plan B. If there is any solid recovery going on, then no need to execute plan B. Most of us s/b in plan B, til the Ws is gone.

L.

You need to study and MEMORIZE these truths in my signature line Fox. This will give you your answer EVERY TIME you have a difficult decision to make regarding your wife.



confidence, self esteem, self respect, no pressure, happy the way things are in your life....(keys to reconcile)
A confident man CAN call if he so desires. He makes up his OWN mind. The key thing here is not whether you call or don't call, but HOW you handle yourself when you do call.
Make it short, do some small talk, get on to the business at hand regarding the call, show confidence, be happy, and NO PRESSURE about getting back together or about "the relationship". If you do that then you will be ok. If you call and put on pressure and act all clingy and needy and whiney, then you are pushing yourself BACKWARDS.

If it was ME, I would NOT call. As a confident man who has had much experience with women and their actions during times of distance, I have found that it drives them crazy when you leave them alone. They slowly break down and can't help but contact YOU. It takes a strong man, but it is well worth the wait. It won't hurt her or you to give this some space for a while. She isn't going to forget you, and as a matter of fact, she may miss you faster and more by you continuing to leave her alone. Then when she contacts you and asks why you have not called, you can tell her that you have been "busy"(remember about a busy man?) and that you had "finally realized" that she wanted some space and that she was RIGHT (agree with their negative view of things) and that "maybe" this was the best for now. Then POLITELY get off the phone. Be nice, be confident, no pressure, be happy and make it short and sweet...

Good luck.. you are doing just fine now. She is already thinking and viewing you differently since the last contact. She IS thinking about you. Trust that you are moving in the right direction.

I've come to a decision.

I've been thinking about this today, and this is a marriage - our marriage; this isn't a charade - nor is this some game.

Her lack of motivation to contact me and simply the lack of respect are a good clue that she doesn't even care anymore; like a good friend of mine and my pastor told me - she is using me as a backup - keeping me around when SHE needs me, yet she makes no effort to meet my EN, nor does she even care about them. So, when I make effort towards a separation, she tells me to stop; playing these stupid little games with me - like the flirting/shutting me out. Well, before I leave for school; this ends.

I'll continue to pan out this Plan until the end of the summer; but before I leave I am letting her know straight up - either you care or you don't; you don't put a half-assed effort at saving a marriage, and one person cannot and will not make a marriage. If she wants to be with me, then she needs to decide now. I deserve so much more than this; especially with the amount of effort I've put into changing for the better.

I'll give a few more weeks of Plan A - and then its either do or die for her; I'm through playing games. I'm not going to wait around for her while she experiments around in her life deciding whether or not she will be happy without me; that is something she should have decided BEFORE we got married - not after. And I will CERTAINLY not go along with her idea of, "You stick around while we stay separated and I experiment with guys."

I'm sorry, but telling someone that "If we do a separation, I don't want to feel binded to you - I want to be free to meet new people if I want to" doesn't fly. Is this high school or did I miss something when I heard her say, "I do."

I'm out guys - take care.

God bless

I'm assuming the best time to deliver this question would be when I am 100% sure I am talking to my W and not my WS.

If I remember right, harley recommends 6 months for plan a. How long have you being doing plan A? Maybe shot for 3 months? Easier said than done. : (

her idea of, "You stick around while we stay separated and I experiment with guys."

These comments are downright cruel and your friend seems to be on the right track that your a just in case she can't find anyone else.

I do understand the pain and realness of young love. I'm sorry you're going thru this.

Its just sad; I don't think she even remembers all of the good times we had - but, its either me as her husband, or I'm gone forever. I meant my vows, but I'm fed up with the unfaithfulness.

You do remember the first rule of Plan A is to expect NOTHING from your WS, right? Of course she won't be meeting your EN's. If she were, then she wouldn't be a WS. Your Plan A should not depend on her and her actions. This is for you to show her what she is missing. You do this so you know, no matter what happens, you did everything you could to save your M.

What are you accomplishing by not contacting your WS? I'll give you the answer, NOTHING!!! I remember during my horrible saga thinking, I'll show him I'm not going to call him until he calls me. But then I got to thinking, how is that going to help? It will allow him to put me to the back of his mind and go about his merry way. The key is to make the WS keep thinking of you. It can be as simple as a quick e-mail about a bill, or e-mailing an article or comic you think she will enjoy. Asking if you can stop by her work for her to sign a paper. Something, anything so she HAS to think about you. And it must be a pleasant encounter. A small token gift, something only you would think to buy her would be good. Nothing too over the top, that will scare her away.

So now I have to ask. What is your Plan?

well...

I have people telling me not to contact her, and others telling me to contact her; i'm almost to the point where i don't even care anymore; this isn't worth this ****.

I'm sick of feeling like absolute **** - and more than anything I'm sick of worrying about what she wants with her life. I've spent the last month suffering over this ****; and I have people telling me to do two different things. Contact her - don't contact her; well which one is it.

**** this - i don't care anymore. I'm done.

im sick of expecting to throw away everything im doing for someone that doesn't give a flying **** about me - i can't do it anymore.

i'm sick of being slapped in the face
i'm sick of being walked on
i'm sick of being treated less than human
i'm sick of being a *--- martyr for her.
i'm sick of being used.

I have been doing exact what i've been told to do, and she doesn't budge; makes no effort to contact me, says she's too busy to do so. Yes I know this is what is expected to happen; but I can't handle it - my heart is ****** up; my blood pressure has skyrocketed, I can't sleep at night - I've lost an unhealthy amount of weight, My hands shake violently when I try to pick things up. I simply can't do this anymore. Nothing is worth this ****; my W was worth anything in the world, I would still die for her; She's gone...she's been gone for months. All that's left is this vindictive ***** that uses every minute possible to **** on me and everything that we ever had together; the promises, the dreams, the memories, our kids that we wanted so badly; our hopes, our vows.

I'm not strong enough to do this...thought I was, but I've reached my ends. I can't do it anymore. Its pretty bad when you treat someone who would die for you so ****** that they end up hating you in the end.

I know I ******* messed up - how much does she have to drill this into me? I can't take back ******* time; and I can't change what I did. Does she expect me to be ******* superman? What does she want from a husband? Someone who will never treat her badly? Does she expect to marry Jesus? No one is ****** perfect. Heaven forbid she marry someone who cheats on her or beats her...oh wait - THATS WHAT SHE DID TO ME!! And I STILL ******* SAT THROUGH IT I STILL KEPT MY ******* VOWS. But, according to her, I'm not COMMITED to us!??!?! ARE YOU JOKING ME!!??!?!?!?!?!!!?!?! I never once cheated on her, never once hit her; I gave her a place to live; I took her away from all the pain her family was instilling on her; put her in school, helped her find God, and I'm WORTHLESS. Okay - I spent a little too much time on the computer!??! What the **** do you want from me!? I told her I'd sell everything I ******* own for her; I don't want it; I don't need it - but all she can say is, "now you know how it feels - sucks don't it." What the **** is this? A grudge match? I never did anything on purpose to hurt her; I've always wanted her to be happy - now she's just going out of her way to smash my face into the dirt. How much does it hurt? The more the better.

Sitting alone in a dark house while your wife is sleeping in another man's bed with him on the floor or not, is just ******* high school ****. e-mailing her ex's behind your back, lying to you, hitting you, putting your life's goals in jeopardy; calling the police on YOU after she beats the **** out of YOU and you do NOTHING!?, telling you she doesn't love you for three weeks then STILL asking you to sleep in the same room with her after you try to adjust in life without her because SHE SAYS SHE IS LONELY!?; someone who takes one look at a four hour project you put together at four in the morning, candles, music, romanticism and telling you it didn't mean ****; the promises, the dreams ******* GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

I AM SO ****** RIGHT NOW I CANT SEE STRAIGHT - WHAT HAS THIS ALL BEEN FOR? A BIG GAME OF PLAY HOUSE? A YEAR, A ******* YEAR AND SHE GIVES UP - what in the **** is she doing with her life? AUUUUUUUUUGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH GHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Fox
The ball is in your court. Up to you how you play it.