Thanks, Aphelion.


This is so very true. I can't take responsibility for it any more - it's OW's job/problem now.

I am sorry that it seems to everyone I am giving up. I appreciate so much all the help and support I have been given here. But WH is in SO DEEP in this A, he's immoveable. The drinking is only making it worse.

Alph.

My STBXW won't acknowledge her binge drinking issues and, as I was told, there is NO hope in fixing an M where one party is in the throes of ANY addiction (sex, porn, booze, drugs, etc) because that addiction comes FIRST to the addicted party. The spouse/kids are secondary...not a good recipe for a family.

Until THAT issue is successfully dealt with, there is no healing a marriage, I am sorry to say.

May your load rest lightly on your shoulders...

WNB

Absolutely nobody expects you to wait forever. I just didn't think a few more months trying a plan B and seeing if he files wouldn't be so awful. Never the less, it is your choice. I understand wanting to move on with your life and I do believe you can have a happier future.

I also believe that many a marriage can be saved and be better than before the A if people would give it half a chance. Most people don't even try at all. If only people could be a bit more patient.

If your done...well then your done. I can't really fault you for doing what is best for you and your health. Your situation does have the added hurdle of alcohol.

Many would have said my marriage couldn't recover and I should have D's given the awful situation I was in for so long. It was rather humiliating too. My H wasn't a drinker prior to his A's...he drank during each of the last two A's. His drinking last with the last A was definitely to escape the guilt.

Now it is back to a drink or a few beers if we are out with friends..and wine with dinner sometimes.

You make a good point regarding your kids not understanding your not wanting contact with their Dad. It could probably be explained to your older D in a way that she could handle. But, maybe as you say it wouldn't affect your H at all.

It just seemed like there was a glimmer of hope when you went to your D's performance that night. It just seemed like somehow something might have gotten through to him. You don't know what kind of pressure OW is putting on him to keep away from you.

I wish you nothing but good and peace with whatever you chose to do. I know it isn't a decision made lightly.

Alphin, I will keep you in my prayers.

How to prove it? I know he drinks a lot, all the family know it - but that doesn't make him an alcoholic in the eyes of the courts.

I did mention this to him when he first left - that he should cut down on the sauce if he wanted overnights - but he just got angry and said he'd 'see a doctor'. I know that this defensive attitude is pretty typical, unfortunately.


*sigh* I don't think I have any choice. He has no interest in giving up OW or drinking.

Alph.

Check with local AA or Al Anon. They (usually) have the necessary resources and contacts.

In any case, it occurs to me that the amount of quality time he spends with the girls will trail off with time. This seems to happen with all drinking ex spouses and many a WS in general.

I bet OW will not like the time he spends with them and slowly interfere more and more anyway.

Oh, and I still say his A is doomed. But you are no longer under any obligation to wait, IMO. You have earned your way out.


PS: What did SH say that decided you, anyway – but only if you feel like telling.

Why? I know that, again, the statistics support this, but it really doesn't seem to be borne out in real life. I know of so many marriages/partnerships that have come out of affairs.

Steve told me to do things that I just didn't have the heart or energy to do. For example, he told me to say 'what if the parents of our children could be in love with each other'. Yes, a clever thing to say to WH, but something I should have said weeks ago, not at the stage I am now. I told SH that I was on the verge of giving up.

He did tell me also that most As break up within 6 months of exposure - I knew this. But 'most affairs' are not soulmate affairs. Wh and OW are in this for the duration - however long that is.

I've tried contacting Al Anon a few times before - impossible to get through! I'll try again, though.

Alph.

For all intents and purposes, most people involved in A's think that they are soulmates. I know mine did while he was in his 4 yr long A. They were meant for each other. He said he felt connected to her...they had a connection which we did not have.

She was wealthy (as compared to us), buying him gifts all the time, offering him the world. She was married with 3 kids, then went through her D...to be with MY H. Don't you think that would have seemed hopeless to me? She almost pulled off buying two of my kids too. Don't you think it felt hopeless to go to her house to get my DD (who babysat for her sometimes) and my DD didn't want to come home. She'd pay her lots for a couple of hours babysitting. She'd take her to the mall and buy her clothes. She told my 12 yr old that she could shave her legs when her mom...me, thought it not necessary yet. My son was friends with her son, he'd want to stay their too. She'd always buy hot wings from Hooters...she was one 'cool' mom. This was all before D-day...as I was getting sicker and sicker feeling like I was losing my family. They were all trying to make it seem like I was the crazy one...the spoil sport.

We are happily in recovery today. He can't believe he said and felt the way he did back then.

Trix,

What about the alcohol problem, though?

I can't do anything about that. He and OW are just having a ball.

Alph.

I really doubt that is 100 % true, Alph. Your H IMHO is having to placate omelete by avoiding you and avoiding his kids, how good do you really think he feels? You do what you feel is right for you Alph, but I agree that plan B would help you get through this without initiating D. I think you could explain it well enough to your kids.

{{Alph}}

But I don't want to plan B! I want to plan D!

Pleeeease let me!

Alph.

I see the alcohol issue as a huge issue.

Pepperband has experience with that with her H and as well as others.

If there would ever be any chance, then I would think that would have to be boundary for you. He would need to agree to deal with that before he would be allowed to move home.

Now, I know he may never get to that point. But if he did make a turn around and come out of the fog then he'd have to make a commitment to treatment etc. for his alcoholism. If he would still be in denial then he would need to agree to IC to work through his issues.

I agree that there can be no work on the marriage until the alcoholism is tackled. It seems like he has always been a drinker but that it has escalated since he's been in the A. If the A ended he may be better able to recognize that his drinking became heavier and maybe other family members can also facilitate that acknowledgement also.

Alphin, no one is telling you that you CAN"T go to plan D. I am so sorry for upsetting you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I still really care about him.

But I've reached the end. I have to stop. I feel like the situation is damaging everyone - especially the girls.

As you say, Trix, he may never reach the point where he 'wakes up'.

I wonder if the OW will eventually leave him because of his drinking? Could be.

Alph.

Alph, we can't keep you from doing anything. I just want you to not have any regrets. I don't see things as hopeless as you do. But, you are living it. You have to decide for yourself.

In some ways maybe I was weaker than you for not going to D. We had been married longer. There were times when I would second guess myself...maybe my life would have been better because I will always have the memory of the A's to taint everything. But a part of me would think that I was better with my H, the father of my kids, than taking a chance hooking up with someone with a whole other history and baggage to work through. I never really wanted to be D'd.

Alphin, one more detail about plan B: it gives you some measure of control. Don't think he won't notice or care when YOU tell him that YOU don't want to see him. I think he will. and the fact that you tell him this in a letter is very important. I think this aspect of plan B is very important and makes all the difference.

I'd like to share something off-topic.

I've just discovered that WH has told DD12 that I am stopping him from seeing them more than once a week.

I can't believe that he has said this to her - it's a complete lie. He's always been able to visit as often as he wants!

How to deal with, please?

Alph.

I am going to nail his a$$ to the wall, D-wise!

GRRRRRR.

Alph.

That’s the addictions speaking – the A and the alcohol both. Typical justifications to make him feel better. See it all the time on here.

(And then, later, FWS’s have the balls to say they were just getting there EN’s met and they made a mistake – hah!)

You tell your daughter the truth. Tell her everything. The whole truth. Tell her how you think it will play out with WH too.

Also confront WH about the lies.