I loved him right up until I knew.

I was angry with him, though. He had been neglecting me through him drinking, and also, I now realise, he withdrew because of the A.

But I did still love him.

Alph.

Then write your Plan B letter using that level of love you last felt for him before discovery. Re-visit that emotional place. Use this reference as a tool ....

Another great idea.

Thanks Pep. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Alph.

you're welcome

Alphin, just a couple of quick observations:

1. You have been in plan A for what, 3 months now? That is twice as long as Dr Harley recommends for women (he revised his original plan A timeline as published in SAA downward some time ago.) Your plan A has been pretty good, per what you have posted. So I think, based on the evidence available, you are overdue for plan B.

2. What will plan B accomplish?

Well, with WH not really in contact with you much anyway, not much on his end. I doubt it will shock him into noticing any missing ENs from you. He hasn’t missed any in any obvious way so far.

One thing plan B will definitely not accomplish is his sobriety. That is a completely different problem. I am having quite a bit of heartburn over everyone telling you to plan B his butt when Dr H himself says MB principles do not work with drug addicts.

But in any case, plan B will, over time, remove you from much of the day to day heartache. It will be closure (I hate that word, but it seems appropriate at the moment) of a sort. You can finally seal his A off somewhere in your mind and not have to think about it any more. This will take you some time, but it will begin to happen for you.

I don’t believe the old saw that absence makes the heart grow fonder. It helps you to forget! The part about plan B preserving love for the WS is counter intuitive to me. You will begin to forget your WH (and your H). And IMO that is good.

If you deliver a good plan B letter, it will close the door on WH but it will leave the door unlocked. The letter will tell him exactly what he needs to do to re-ignite your interest. He will have to end the A, of course, keep the girls away from OW until such time as you are legally divorced, total transparency in all his actions, learn and practice MB principles (POJA, Rule of Protection, Radical Honesty), and he must get counseling for himself and whatever professional help he needs to stop drinking. Otherwise the two of you will never truly recover even when the A is ancient history. So, my only advice is to make sure your letter includes all the steps he must take before you will even consider recovery.

3. His A will end. Probably very badly. I have little doubt. He will then start sniffing around your door again. Have a copy of the Plan B letter to give him again when this happens. Well, only if you are even still interested by that time. You might not be, you know. And that is OK too.

With prayers,

Aphelion,

Excellent post. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

Orchid, I agree!

Thank you, Aphelion. Sorry I wasn't around yesterday to reply.

Alph.

Hey Alph, so how did the talk with yr WH go??

Aphelion -- great post. The less I see and hear of WH, the better I feel actually. I've actually been thinking deeply about whether I would even be interested if WH comes knocking at my door again. It's a little scary when I think I might feel more of indifference some months down the road. What does that say abt myself...cruel/hard-hearted/practical..? I'm not quite sure either?? Hmm...


~A

WH was around this evening. I think you can safely say that plan A is blown out of the water and that plan B probably isn't going to happen - at least not in true MB style, anyway. My emotions got the better of me, but things are now much clearer. All the hurt and anger I’ve been suppressing since he left just came to the fore last night. It didn't stop me saying what I wanted to say, but it scared the heck out of WH. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

WH is going to file for divorce over the summer. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

He said that he wanted to see the kids more. I challenged him about what DD12 had said about me stopping him from seeing them. He admitted he was wrong to do that. Then he said he’s upset he can't see them the way he wants (i.e. - with OW). He said he wanted to make them dinner and read DD5 stories at night. I said, well you denied yourself that when you left. He tried to blame me that he didn't see them as much as he wanted - said I was making them unhappy. I said No WH; you did this to yourself, and to the girls.

I said: I will not allow the children to meet OW until we are divorced. He said: but that's hurting them. I said: what is the benefit to them in meeting OW before we are divorced? He didn't answer. I said: do you want the girls to have monogamous, faithful relationships when they are older? He said he didn't care if they had strings of boyfriends, one after another, if that’s how they wanted to live their lives. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> What else could the adulterer say?

I was getting mad by now, and WH got up to leave. But I kept talking and eventually he sat down again. We talked about money. He said it was all my fault that we didn't have any. I said I haven't spent a penny of your money since you left. He said it's your fault because of the debts you ran up. He said he only spent money on gas for the car, and that OW paid for everything else, and she has virtually nothing left. I said: what about all the money you spent in Spain? He said: Oh, that was a one off. Right. I said: how much do you spend on smoking and alcohol? He said: not much. But he looked guilty.

I asked him how much he was drinking. He said: Much less than I was before (i.e. when he was with me). I said: Whenever I’m with you, I can smell the alcohol on you. He said: That’s not true. I said: If you’ve stopped drinking, why haven’t you lost any weight? He said: I have. (He has, actually, now I look at him). If he has cut down on the drinking, I wonder how long it will last, though.

He told me that he couldn’t afford to pay the CS (I knew this). Then he let slip that he couldn't afford an atty. I managed to stop myself from crowing. I get legal aid, and have an excellent family law atty. I am going to get every penny I am entitled to.

Then he talked about how scared he was of me, because of the exposure. He said the reason he hasn't been talking to me is because he was terrified of all the letters I was sending to everyone. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> He also said that OW hates me because of the phone call and letter I sent to her parents. He said it is illegal to send pictures of children in Spain to people you don't know. I said: but the pictures were sent from the UK. And you've met OW's parents, and seemed to like them, and you are my husband! That shut him up. He didn't tell me exactly what had happened with the letter to her parents, but I'm glad it caused trouble.

I told him I wanted them to move, to get out of my area. He said: OW won't like that, because she's fed up with moving. I said: I don't care, I want you to move. He said he'd speak to her. Then he said: OW said something the other day... I said: what? He said: OW said she wants the girls and you to be happy. I just laughed. He said: I knew I shouldn't have told you.

Then I said: I think it's pretty obvious that we aren't going to be friends now, isn't it? He said: No. I think in a few months you'll change your mind. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I said: are you completely delusional? I nearly died because of what you did to me. Friends don't do what you did to me. Friends trust each other. I'll never trust you again. He said: I think you'll change your mind. I just laughed again.

I said: I don't want to see you, and I want you to leave your key. He left his key.

The one thing that I kept on thinking was how weak he seemed. I always thought in our marriage that he was the strong one, and I was the weaker. I’ve thought for a long time that the OW had been manipulating things behind the scenes, dominating him and getting him to do what she wanted. I thought I’d have a real struggle with the issue about the kids meeting OW, but he just caved in, and accepted it. Is this how it is going to be, two women, me and OW, nagging at WH who just quakes in the middle of us? He has NO CHANCE of doing anything about the kids and custody, because he can't afford an atty. I did offer him joint custody, but I can change my mind if I want to – I’ve heard differing reports about how beneficial joint custody is for kids and I’ve yet to make up my mind. He is coming to see DD5 today (should be interesting) but after the summer, I am not letting him back in this house to see them. The girls can meet him at the front door, and he can take them out. Then I won't have to see him at all. This will be my plan B/D.

So, I think I have blown it all. I just couldn’t stop the emotions from pouring out of me last night. And WH is getting the divorce. I’ve heard that most A’s don’t survive the divorce process. I hope that is true. I am not going to make it easy for WH. Even if the A survives, I will make sure they don't enjoy it.

That’s that.

Alph, my -- I think you did yourself quite well. You stood up for yourself and did a bit of good reverse babbling even!

I'm sorry to hear abt the D talk. But perhaps, if it's to protect you and the kids first and foremost, it may be necessary.

Really -- what's up with this friends thing? Geez! I'm tired of hearing that line.

~A

Thanks Ashley.

I am sad it has come to this, but kind of relieved as well.

I forgot to put in that I asked WH: 'What is it about OW, anyway?'

He almost answered, but then decided not to. Maybe he is beginning to wonder himself.

I'd like to know: If a (possible) alcoholic 'cuts down' on his drinking because someone else wants him to (i.e. Omelette) does this work? Or is he likely to gradually return to his old habits, particularly during times of stress - such as a hideous divorce? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Alph.

I really don't know - he seems almost desperate about it. I even asked WH why he wanted to even be my friend at all after all the exposure I'd done. He said 'we both want what's best for the kids'.

I told him I was quite capable of being courteous with him in front of the kids - having kids between us didn't mean we had to be friends after the D.

He said 'we'll have to agree to disagree.'

What, is he going to force me to be his friend? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Alph.

if he wanted what was best for the kids he would come home and work on your marriage.

If I divorced Squid I would no longer treat her as a friend but as a protagonist in the various transactions we must execute, kids, finances etc.

The benefits of my friendship are reserved for those people who behave in a friendly manner to me and do not hurt my kids.

That may change of course if I were ever in that situation.

b0b,

This will never change for me, at least not until WH shows some remorse for what he has done.

How can you forgive somesome who shows no remorse, who is so certain they have done the right thing, despite all the pain and chaos screaming otherwise?

I feel I hate him now. I feel terrible for feeling that. I hate the fact that he is the father of my children. I hate the fact that I ever welcomed him as my lover to make our children.

Sorry. I feel so, so bitter and angry.

Alph.

You are allowed to feel bitter and angry darl'.

Your WH is an [censored].

Thanks, b0b.

*sigh*

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Alph.

Alphin, if it is going to be D (and we aren't sure of that yet) you might as well go to plan B and let WH talk to your lawyer about the D.

It will give you control. And some peace.

I guess the "friends" thing is about their need to validate the A. I was WH's best friend until I asked him to leave. Then I think he was so offended by the fact that I didn't want to talk to him or see him that he actually got angry with him. But he respected it.

It hasn't ended the A, nor has he come back, but at least I have been able to do better. When I feel bitter or angry I always remind myself that I'm doing this for ME and that the other posibilities would be much worse. Being friends would actually be enabling the A!

I do need to remove myself from this now. And you are right about being friends enabling the affair. If we were friends, he would still have me meeting those 'attachment' ENs that we've shared.

Those feelings of attachment are very strong - I still have them for WH, and will for a long time, I guess. He still has them for me, although they are swamped out by the 'addiction' feelings of his A.

He'll remember one day, I think. But it will probably be too late then.

Alph.

The one you should have feelings for is your H. The real H, not the WS. The one you want to 'remember' is your H not the WS.

Learn to distinguish between the 2 and clearly make your boundaries. The one thing WS' rely on is the steadfast devotion of the BS. Remove that and you will have control of your life again. Otherwise, the WS will continue to use you as the BS to enable his A. That is what WS' do.

L.

Sorry to hear all this Alphin. It must be so hard to keep calm when you are face to face with your WS.

You sound so resigned to a D but nothing is set until the ink dries. A plan B (love) letter could still hit some rational spot within WH. Even if it doesn't having to READ it has much more impact than hearing it where he can interrupt and say hurtful things.

I still think it will have an impact on him...he is STILL talking of remaining friends. Plan B could hit him hard, very hard.

But it will protect you which is very important.

Think of your trip abroad to your friends....it's something to look forward to for all 3 Alphin girls.