Believer

Glad to hear it.

I'm borderline right now on whether to continue to fight for my marriage because I'm not sure if I can even win with the best effort. I've been beat up pretty bad lately. At least emotionally and mentally. But I can say things are a lot better since d-day six months ago.

I know it's only been six months and others have held on longer but when you aren't given much hope it's hard to hold out. I guess by coming here I actaully am given inspiration by others not to give up just yet. i think its time for me to start another thread about what's going on with me. I'm back because i need more advice because I'm at a cross roads.

By the way, are your numbers correct that only 2-3% of affairs last to become happy marriages?

Also, where are you at in your journey?

Yep, the numbers are correct. They don't go on to have a happy relationship.

In my case, my WH is long gone, and I don't care anymore. After almost 3 years of this, I'm divorcing him.

Sorry to hear that. I know it's a long process and it seems that the pain doesn't go away all that quick either. You are further along than I am and I wonder if the pain will ever go away. I know it gets better every day but sometimes I have relapses. Is your WH still with the OW?

I know in this case I find it hard to believe that they could be happy in the long run because both my WW and the OM are sort of messed up in the head outside of the A itself.

Were there any kids involved? I have a 7 year old myself.

Right now I'm trying to figure out if I want to keep holdng out hope. And if she even comes back do I want to try and repair the damage caused by someone who may not even want to try that hard. Her mother's side of the family has a long history of infidelity and she fell into it. She actually told me how horrible of a childhood she had because of her mothers A and she went and had one herself. It is now my responsibility to protect my son from her traits and her mothers traits as well. By the way, her mom babysat my son so my WW could go off and be with the other man.

My WH is still with the OW. Our kids are grown. OW has a 12 year old who she has abandoned, and left with her husband.

But I am very happy. Whichever way it goes for you, you will be happy one day again.

I dont really know if there's been a PA, but the EA has been exposed...sorta.

In my case I have not exposed the affair but it's something I think about daily. If my wife is to be believed her partner in adultery's family now knows the truth about them but no one on my side of the fence does. I have revealed her affair and my son's paternity to only two people who's judgement i trust and whose advice I sought out. I do have a list of phone numbers prepared for if I decide on the scorched earth approach.
According to my wife the OM is single and has asked her repeatedly to leave me and marry him. She has also told me that his mother is willing to support him financially in any legal effort to prove his paternity and gain visitation privileges.

In a few days I will be able to see see whether or not she is still lying to me about phone contact. If I discover (as I suspect I will) that they are still talking I am pretty well convinced that I will blow the whistle to her family and friends. She could care less about mine but I am a darling in her families eyes.

I haven't done so up until now because of the possibilty that she is telling the truth about ending the affair. If she is then exposure at this time would seem to me to be more vindictive than anything else. We both know that the affair will eventually be public knowlege anyway. Even though he is only eight months old we are already getting questions about who my son looks like. While my first son is my spitting image my second son looks nothing like me and very little my wife. We have discussed the matter and we both agree that we would rather deal with exposure issues from within the framework of a secure relationship than to load even more weight on a shaky marriage. If we separate or I go to plan B then there is no question that I will let everyone know why.

Faithful husbands ? I guess thats me.

Yes, Bob Pure, it definitely includes you brother.

Campdog - I understand your reticence to "turn this into a theological discussion." That is partly why I asked Believer what she envisioned as the "intent" of this thread. Since I "AM" a Christian, God is number one on my list of important priorities. My marriage is number 2, my family is number 3, everything else is a distant 4th. So let me quote the "relevant" parts of your post in order to respond to the questions you posed.

Campdog: "Does it really matter if you call Him Jesus Christ or I call him Lord? Isn't the belief more important than the doctrine? I was raised Christian and I remember being taught God is all things. I'm uncomfortable arguing matters of faith since they are ultimately unarguable. In my mind it only comes down to do you believe in Him or do you not."

Yes, it matters enormously. It IS the person of Jesus Christ who IS what matters. IF Jesus Christ IS NOT who He said He was, and IF Jesus Christ did not rise from the dead, then by all means, "believe" whatever anyone chooses to believe or not believe because it won't matter anyway.

However, IF Jesus Christ IS who He says He is...ALL other "beliefs" and/or religions are worthless human "constructs" that are NOT based in truth.

Even Satan KNOWS who God and Jesus Christ are. KNOWLEDGE alone is insufficient. It takes acceptance and surrender to the one true LORD, Jesus Christ. That is what Satan is "unwilling" to do and that is what most humans are "unwilling" to do.

Campdog: "My own personal belief is that to doubt the existence of God is to deny all evidence to the contrary. That doesn't mean that I would ever think that I have an inside line on the truth or that anyone who disagreed with me was 'wrong'."

Neither would I have an "inside line on the truth" had God Himself not revealed the truth in the Scripture that He inspired to be written for our edification. It is NOT my "opinion" that I base my faith upon, but upon the revealed truth of God and the FACT that Jesus Christ existed, died, and rose from the dead.

Campdog: "I would be dead right now without my belief in a higher power. I call that power God. I have no confidence that I can ever know his true nature, I only knows that he loves me and watches over me. If someone is in disagreement with that belief I feel no need to convince them otherwise, we are each responsible for our own destinies and we all find our own paths."

That a faith in a "higher power" can make some humans feel like they have an anchor to help them through tough times is true. That "lifeline" to sanity is not the issue with respect to the "correct" theological belief however.

I have no compulsion to "convince" anyone to accept Jesus Christ. I DO have a responsibility to "stand for God" and to explain WHY I believe what I believe should someone ask. I also have the responsibility to not "accept" someone's statement that "ANY" faith is as "good as the next" and to state WHY Christianity is the ONLY path to reconciliation and salvation with God.

We ARE all responsible for the choices we make. But your reasoning is skewed "against" religion and "against" logic. To put it "bluntly," or to put it "logically," let's look at your premise and just ONE logical extension of what you seem to be saying when you make the argument that "individual destiny" being the SUPREME consideration:

"If someone is in disagreement with that belief I feel no need to convince them otherwise, we are each responsible for our own destinies and we all find our own paths."

WHAT or WHY, if this argument is "true," would be the legitimate reason for attempting to convince ANY Wayward Spouse that the "destiny" they have chosen is "wrong?" Why should anyone "fight" to save and recover their marriage if another individual (the WS or the OP) has decided that THEIR "destiny" (or choices) supercede what YOU want or need? Is there NO "right and wrong?" Are we not allowed to "judge" any behavior, or belief, as being wrong based upon truth and a "higher power" defining what is "right and wrong" rather than what ANY individual might feel is "right for themselves" regardless of anyone else?

At the very least it makes the Marriage vows totally meaningless and eliminates any reason for "Marriage" as we know it. It changes "until death do we part" into "[/u]until I know longer feel 'in love' or no longer feel my 'emotional needs' are being met by YOU[/u]."

Campdog: "I hope that this thread doesn't boil down to a theological discussion because if it does I will lose interest. I have already felt His awesome hand on my shoulder here and I would be sad to leave."

Indeed it would be sad if you made the choice to leave. But as you said previously, that would be YOUR destiny and not ours to "interfere" with. Seriously though, none of us has any control over whether or not another member of MB decides to stay or decides to go. But this IS a public forum, and "group therapy" to boot, so differing opinions and positions are BOUND to happen. IF disagreement with our own position or thoughts is a "trigger" that gives someone an "excuse" to leave, there is little anyone here can do about that. The "implied" statement that accompanies such statements is that anyone who might say anything (though it is usually targeted just at Christians and Christian arguments) should keep their mouths shut and not say anything related to faith at all.

So I guess what I'm saying is that we are talking about a "free speech" issue. Anyone can say just about anything they want to on the system. But no one else has to listen to them. We each retain the right to CHOOSE what we will say, what we will respond to, what we will take in as "advice" that is applicable to us, what we will reject, and whether or not we will remain on the system (to get or give help).

Campdog: "Christian, Jewish, Animist or Atheist we are all PEOPLE here with a common bond. The fundamentals don't change no matter how you interperet them. Being a good person and holding a hand out to each other is what it's all about, no?"

If you are referring to our "common bond" of infidelity, then "yes" would be what "it's all about" with respect to MB and our attempts to get and give help to hurting BS's and WS's who are seeking to "do what is right."

Being a "good person" is part of the motivation. So is following in the footsteps of the "Good Samaritan." So is helping other professing Christians to evaluate their "walk with Christ" and their own level of "humble obedience to God's commands REGARDLESS of what they are feeling or doing.

For Christians, the "game" has already been decided. There IS only one way to "go," and that is humble obedience to the one we have surrendered our lives to as our LORD and Savior. HE is on the throne and HE has the "right and authority" to command us and we have the obligation to obey our Sovereign LORD.

The rest are mere humanistic "arguments" and "reasonings." God says it quite simply this way; "Come, let us reason together." But when we reject Him and when we reject the Scripture, we CHOOSE to "go it alone without God" and WE, not God, are responsible for the outcomes and the "destiny" (or consequences of our choices and actions).

God bless.

Forever, I meant leaving this thread, not MB. MB saved my life. I respect your obviously deeply held convictions and you have every right in the world to express them anywhere you see fit. I thought that the topic of this thread was interesting and I can see a lot of worth in comparing notes with men who share my plight. But I am not interested in logging onto MB for a theological discussion. I come here for hope and guidance in getting me through the worst time of my life. I don't need any help with my relationship with God, He and I are very close friends.

Peace brother. We don't really disagree, we simply see things through a different filter. Please don't ever 'keep your mouth shut'. You are doing His work.

Having said that I am day 67 past d-day and having a really hard time with inward rage at my spouse. I'm not expressing it to her but I know she can see something is wrong when I get quiet. I don't want my anger to become my focus or distract me from the joyous task of loving my wife. Any suggestions or ideas?

I think anger is very normal, and especially for a man. That is one reason I encourage the men here to expose and stand up for their family. It is very difficult if you betray yourself, while trying to get your wife back.

B, I agree with Melody Lane that Anger is a very underestimated emotion if it is channelled properly. It can break down walls of apathy and fear.

You're right too about betraying yourself. It is of great worth to me that I chose the brave route and did not settle for crumbs when I fought to get Squid back.

Yep Bob -

Even though female, I starting hating myself for how little I expected from WH. Looking back, it makes me sick. Luckily I am in recovery ALONE. I don't think I could ever get over it - not so much what he did, but how I was willing to put up with anything to get him back.

I was more in the fog than he was.

I know it's normal to feel anger in my situation. How could you NOT feel anger? I have seen it expressed often in this very forum. My question was for the people like bOb and believer who have been in this horror longer than I. How did you keep from letting the anger consume you and become counter productive? I'm having a tough time with this one. I see my wife making genuine efforts at rebuilding our marriage yet too many times I feel only my anger. So far I am able to repress it and not allow it to mess up my efforts but it builds. Any suggestions on dealing with anger other than repressing it? So far talking about it with my spouse is not an option.

Very well said and I agree with this 100%. Anger can be a huge motivator for positive change but you have to be careful because it also can cause much destruction if not managed properly.

I no longer have much anger towards WW. Its mostly just disgust now. My main concern now is helping my children salvage whatever relationship they can with their mother as we move forward with the divorce. But they too are remarkably strong for being little people... in fact they have given me much of my strength...

Miker

Well, that is the key, Miker. Anger is not bad if properly channeled, but can be bad it isn't. A LACK OF anger is just as destructive when the situation calls for it. Moral cowardice [or neutrality] is just as destructive as unchecked anger, IMO. I think anger gets a very undeserved bad rap, for some odd reason. Decent people should be angered by injustice. When they don't, evil is allowed to thrive.

Campdog -

First, the anger is a natural part of this. I used to be very angry at my WH and OW. But anger is part of caring, and it the situation goes on and on, you will no longer care. That is why I think men need to expose, and do their best to end the affair. If the affair doesn't end, then they must move forward for themselves and their family.

Wow, this thread has really taken off. Thanks Believer for getting this started.

A lot being said on here. The interesting thing I was thinking about as I read this thread is how many wives are involved in affairs. When you usually think of affairs, you think of some guy going to work and picking up his secretary. Something like that.

But what you dont think of is some mother of three, who volunteers at the church and crisis pregnancy center, who teaches kids on Wednesday night at the church...you just dont think of a woman like that starting up a relationship while her husband is away at war, with some guy at the local gym. You dont think its possible that same woman would leave her husand and kids so she could be in an apartment and see this OM. This is something I never really thought happened.

So, to sit on here with other BHs is quite a shock actually. And as I have studied and read over the last few years, as I have inquired on here...I have realized that there is a sameness when a WW is involved.

Sure, we could go on and on about what our WWs have done, or what kind of person does what they have done. But what I have tried to portray to many BHs on here is what The Lord has shown me. And that is that I am the leader of my home, I am responisble for my home, responsible for my wife, responsible for my kids. No one else on this planet, including my wife, has that responsibility.

So, how am I going to be able to meet my responsibilities, protect and lead my wife and my family? Well I had to learn the hard way that my ability to be the leader revolves around three basic rules, the central tenets of what I have called my "battle plan."

Whether or not a person is a Christian, God still wants their marriage to succeed. Why? Mainly for the the subsequent enerations. The Bible speaks to this as it talks about things we do (good and bad) will go down 4 generations. So, when it comes to marriage, God wants marriages to succeed because it is thru that a child is able to grow up and have a chance of seeing Him and accepting Jesus.

If you go back to my original threads, you will see that I talk about what happened in Bosnia a few years ago. Things were bad, and my wife had started the affair. I did not know that at the time, but I knew we were in trouble. While I was in Bosnia one day, I was at my desk and was just kind of leafing thru the Bible as I prayed, wondering what I was going to do. And then the Lord spoke. He spoke through Scripture, thru our chaplain, through other people. He spoke. Over the next several weeks, He showed me the three central tenets to being a husband:

1. Stop worrying about my wife. What He meant by that was that I was to stop controlling the situation, stop trying to make things happen my way.

2. Get back to my First Love. That is Jesus. He was trying to used this crisis to show me that in everything in my life, and every part of it, that it should be surrendered to Jesus. Only then could I possibly have a chance to get what He had for me, to get the blessings that were waiting.

3. Die for my wife. No way you follow Jesus without becoming like Him. And that means dying. It means dying to self, putting my wife and my children before myself. it means that to follow Jesus will mean that I must lead but give up the power to decide the outcome. This was and still is the hardest part of all of this.

I have learned thru all of this mess that while I MUST lead, I must give up the right to dictate the outcome. What that means is while I know that my wife's adultery was wrong, I must give up the right to punish her for it. Shoot, I give up the right to even educate her on it.

As a leader, as the leader of my family, I must first set the example. Then I must provide Gdly counsel to my wife and kids (I am their pastor). And then, I must turn them over to God and let Jesus take my leadership and my counsel, and help form and better them.

Men and women are different. There are unique things built into men by God that women dont have. While any believer can go straight to the throne of God boldly, in the context of the family, God cnducts this thru a heirarchy. I have the ability to lead my family because of my place in that heirarchy. My wife does not have that ability.

That is why it sickens me about the men that walk away from their families and wives. They have left their home without a leader, without that representative to god which Jesus works through to build a healthy family.

In a discussion the other night, my wife said that she still did not understand why I thought divorce was so bad. Why I didnt walk away when she was cheating. I told her that I could not. That to do so would have been the worst sort of abuse I could have ever laid on her and my kids. I get angry when I see men go "Well, our marriage isnt working out. I am not going to fight for custody...they should be with their mother."

What??? I dont get that. They should be with both parents. But a house without a leader is like a boat without a rudder...it has no direction and can easily be capsized.

So, all I can really say is that in order to have a truly blessed marriage and life really, we men had better realize the truthes of life. That first and foremost, without the leadership and relationship with Jesus, then we will never have what we should have...which means our wives and kids will never get what they should get. The second thing is that those three tenets must outline our every move, our every decision.

When we do that, then questions like "how could my wife cheat" become "How can I help my wife be the person she should be."

It has been an eye opening experience, one I dont think I would have had without my wife's affair. I see everything in my life so differently now. And my wife, my ids, my friends, etc have noticed.

Which may be the single biggest reason my marriage is doing so well now.

In His arms.

Campdog - "be angry (righteous anger), but in your anger do not also sin." Words of advice and command from God.

So WHAT is it that you are most angry about? Sin against God and/or sin against you?

Part of being able to deal with anger is to have established Boundaries with established consequences for when those Boundaries are violated by someone. The consequences can vary in "intensity" and "finality" depending upon what YOU choose. They are, after all, YOUR Boundaries.

"Anger" by itself is not "bad" or "good." It is an emotion that God gave us and is supposed to be how we react to sin against God. But we've too often forgotten about God and reserved the anger to what we perceive as "offenses" against us, even if they were not malicious offenses. In the case of adultery, most of us recognize it as a "sin" even if it's just a "sin" against generally accepted societal norms. It strikes at the "possessive" nature of most of us, nevermind that it is also expressly forbidden in by God in the 10 Commandments that He gave us.

So, in partial answer to your "what to do question," let me say that you clearly state your boundaries and the consequences if someone chooses to violate them regardless of how you might feel. Do NOT allow it to degrade into poisonous bitterness.

Here's something that might help put it into perspective a little:



campdog – you may also find the following link to be helpful on days when the “dog seems to have you.”

Timely story for days when things seem bleak

MM says:
As a leader, as the leader of my family, I must first set the example. Then I must provide Godly counsel to my wife and kids (I am their pastor). And then, I must turn them over to God and let Jesus take my leadership and my counsel, and help form and better them.

Again, underlining the need for the Husband to the Leader in the Home. I'm afraid this portion of the Bible is one of the most gleefully misunderstood by abusive husbands and ardent feminists, to whatever end most suits their needs. But it shouldn't be; it is quite simple in fact.

MM,
What to do when the "Head of Household" is not a Christian? Is it as simple as the W taking up the slack? Because, biblically speaking, I've been taught that it can never be good enough in comparison. Something will always be lacking in the our lives. How does one combat that?

Sorry about the TJ here, just very curious about how to handle this issue.

slh

MM, are we faithful husbands ever supposed to have any fun ? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You make it sound like a punishment to be a husband doing the best he can ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />