Hi bob,

My WS is now in england for 4 days to face the music with our grown up kids. They are going to give her a hard time. What she´s doing is completely alien to the standards we both brought them up by.

She´s still making plans to settle down with OM of one month & keeps saying that a reconciliation has no chance if she´s pressured into it and feels trapped.

My instinct is to pile on the pressure a "trapped" reconciliation is better that no opportunity at all.

am I being too impatient?

Ibiza

You cannot make her do anything.

it was unshackling Squid that flipped the switch in her head not chaining her to me.

" Choose him, I'll be sad , but get over it and you'll never hear from me again, nor get any benefits of being my wife or friend. Not threat; fact".

Think carefully.

I'm also still with you Ib and wishing you well. I have nothing to give you in the way of advice. I don't know which way is up anymore. Just giving you a bump and hoping the vets like bOb can help.

Gentlemen

It is time for you both to realise that yoru self-respect is teh next greatest gift you have to your salvation. You should not trap your WW back into your life. Such will cause resentment.

Loving detachment is a healthy huge step in the right direction. What is says is "I may have been blind and blindsided, but now I see clearly what was obscured in the affair fog. I not only was involved in a catastrophe of unimaginable horror, but survived it.

But merely surviving is not good enough, for I refuse to be victimized and/or a bystander in my life any longer. I deserve to thrive in my life, so I will make the choices that will allow me the best opportunities to do that.

I will take each day as it comes, do the best I can in each moment with one foot firmly in the present and one foot heading for a great future. Every day I will do what I can when I can to make sure that happens, moment to moment.

I am not willing to handcuff someone to me to travel that life journey with me. If they choose to do so voluntarily, I expect the Golden Rule to be one of our main operating principles. I will not accept someone I am in a primary relationship with to make unilateral decisions that affect me.

I will not accept that I give or get less than I would want for myself or any loved one. The greatest gift one soul can give another is the one of themself, the gift of loving and being loved. I will not give or treat that privilege lighty when offered to me. It is too valuable, priceless because it is special and unique, to give or get yet waste it by not recognizing and acting on its full potential as well as its true reality.

Some may love with all they've got, but it may not be enough to be a healthy relationship. Some may love "too much" which is just as damaging in its own way.

I will focus on loving detachment in order for my partner and myself to have the best environment in which to grow and live in as healthy and successful manner as we deserve and need. It is not an option, it is a daily necessity.

I will love and be loved with the awareness that love is a decision and a privilege, not a cage of any type for either of us."

Doing this DOES NOT push away your WW< although it feels that way.

instead it stops them pulling the leash.

The biggest turning point after Dday for me was when I told Squid calmly I wanted her back, but I didn'tt need her. I woudl not shackle her.

She wants to stay andwork on our marriage , great ! But stay or go I will not be disrespected.

It shocked her then. She tells me now it scared her to death and made her reaslise I was not a 'given'. My love and support was not 'business as usual'.

You should not shackle your spouses. Be noble. More noble than OM.

Your Ws will notice and you'll like your reflection a whole lot better than him.

All blessings

Thanks for that, guys. One of the few good things to come out of this is I am finding courage & strength I didn´t know I had. I´m going to need it to follow your good advice.

Ib, I read this site a lot but I don't post all that much because I don't know all that much. I'm certainly in no position to advise anyone about their trouble. Once in a while I see a chance to pay back some of the help I have found here and then I will offer some of my own poor insights. Please don't think that you're alone in your struggle, I personally just don't have all that much to give since I am myself having such a tough time.

But I have learned a few things. Your words about finding courage and strength that you didn't know you had struck a chord in me. I have found that my own courage and strength is directly proportional to the depth and scope of my love for my wife. I am ashamed to admit that before this whole nightmare started I really had no idea of just how much I DID love my wife. I knew I loved her but going through this experience has made me look long and hard at myself and I have seen things that I didn't see before. One of those things is the love I have in my heart for my wife. I know without a doubt that my love for her is genuine and I am totally surprised at it's strength.

Whenever I I have felt that I was at the end of my rope I have so far found that there was still more rope to hang on to. It always comes back to my own bottom line. I love her and I would die for her. I am willing to accept this suffering for her (and my own) sake if it means we can have the life together that I yearn for.

But bOb's words struck a chord with me as well and you should listen to him, he is a smart cookie. Loving detachment is the key to not blowing your brains out. No one can make someone love them, the best you can hope for is to make them realize whatever love they have for you. I have realized that the future is not only obscure, it is also beyond my control. I am at the point where I can still show my love to my spouse but I am also making plans for moving on. To add a little something to what bOb said, in my own case not only have I made it clear to my wife that she is a free agent, I have let her know (I hope) that there is a limit to what I am willing to give in order to retain the relationship.

Right now my wife tells me that she has ended her affair. I am wracked by doubts but Time will tell. If true I am willing to accept the incredibly hurtful things she did and is currently doing in hope for a better marriage as we work together into the future. If it isn't true then I will pick up my marbles and start over without her. Either way I know that I gave it my best shot. There's joy and pride in that.

Hi CD,

I´m sorry to hear you´re having a tough time. But take comfort in that you have a lot to offer.

Every cloud has a silver lining. In my case, the response of my grown-up sons & DIL has made me very proud of them & proud of myself (& WS) in helping to guide them on the path which has lead to the fine loving young people they are today.

Maybe these things are sent to test us & give us valuable lessons. My problem has helped me find strength and much more self-respect. Patience too. I can´t force my wife back. She´s got to want to end the A & come back to me. Right now the gravitaional pull of the OM is too strong.

You´re right about detached loving. I´ve got to get on with my life, whatever happens. I´m sure someone who is strong and moving forward will be much more attractive to a WS than a sobbing, victim. My love for her was strong before the A. It´s even stronger now & she knows this.

I´m in plan A now, but I´m making plans to carry on with the adventure we call life. She can travel with me if she chooses but I´ll be moving when I´m ready.

My faith tells me that you will survive and fly again too.

Ibiza, you need to get "surviving an affair" by willard Harley.

Its a tenner from Amazon.com and they deliver to Ibiza I feel sure.

or mail me your adress and I will post you my dog eared copy.

Its practical, inspiring and invaluable and will provide a set square to your plans and how to process the advice you get here, mine included.

You might also want to consider a phone counselling session with Steve Harley. Its not cheap but people have been transformed by a couple of sessions with him.

Your sit is very hopeful, mate. really. Learn about affair and recovery dynamics and be empowered.

hi Bob, I´ve ordered the book from Amazon.

I need to be patient now. Both WS & OM feel very bad about what they´re doing but are unable to shake off the opium-like spell the A has put them under.

Good man !

I´m going back to the UK tomorrow to see adult sons & DIL. They´ve helped me from blowing my brains out. They all need a hug.

I´ve completed the process of exposure by talking to WS´s brother and aunt who is the nearest thing she has to a mother. WS was very angry about this saying I had no right, they were not my family etc. I pointed out that since we married my family was her´s & vice versa.

I´ve not been very good at plan A so far. I find contact with WS very distressing because I love her more everyday but she doesn´t want me. I also find it hard not to preach & criticise the OM.

I´m going to see the doc when I´m home I need to ease the tension so I can keep calm, friendly & non-judgemental when she´s around. Had to break off half way thru this post because she arrived and I think I was OK. I´m aware that the judgemental atmosphere I´ve been creating will drive her away.

Unless my WS ends the affair & comes home, I can´t really start to talk about the future & our ENs. I spent many years in property management, a job I hated & made me ill, although I originally went to art college.

My WS to her credit supported me in leaving this job & retiring to a new world. She remarked more than once that the old me was returning. But I don´t think that I was improving quickly enough for her. I was drawing & pàinting again but not as much as I could and I still had the occaisional melancholy day when I was withdrawn & quiet.

I´m still struggling to get over the disbelief that my gentle wife has betrayed her husband when he needed her most. Stepping back a bit though, it looks to me that my WS needs a man she can admire & respect for his creativity & unwillingness to waste a day.

Well, I know what I´ve got to do.

Ibiza, you are hitting a phase of self blame. Your WWs affair is not your fault. Most affairs are not about BS at all, but about WS entirely.

It was humbling for me, MONTHS after d-day to realise I wasn;t important in Squids decision to have an affair.

Identify the ways in which you did not meet yoru WWs empotional needs before her affair, and meet them now where possible. Repent of those behaviours if you can and you are willing. And apologise to WW for that, pointing out all teh while you may have contribute dto an unfulfilling marrriage but take abolutely zero responsibility for her affair.

Then just walk on getting used to your new 'plan A' behaviours.

You must stop slagging off OM. GOD KNOWS I wanted to do this but it just makes WS angry and more hard nosed.

You can do this mate.
{{{ibiza}}}

I'm back in England now to see the kids.

They have lost a lot of respect for their mum; the older boy (27) could only speak to her for an hour when he saw her a week ago & wouldn't give her a hug. WS is taking it very hard. Well that's for her to work out. I'll advise her if she wants me to but I'll avoid preaching.

No contact with WS while I'm here, probably not a bad thing while I'm assessing how I've handled this so far. I can certainly see what you're saying, Bob.

I'm back in Ibiza in 3 days...plan A starts in earnest then. Lets find out if I can be a hero

Ibiza
I can fylly understand your boys' attitude. It srighteous TBH, why shold they pretend that realy bad behaviour is OK ?

I bet your WW was gutted by their attitude.

It was very hopful BTW that she didn't take OM with her to England. Where there is not only infatuation but hopes of a sustained future mixed up entangled WS try to integrate teh OP as much as they can.

Its my guess that Mr Ibiza musician has about as much of a future plan with your missus as he does with Mother Teresa.

Love your boys. Tell them what you have learned. Tell them you have a plan and tools and people who have been successful with them previously helping you. Explain their is drunk on a fantasy right now, and is like an alien.

Its all true.

{{{{ib}}}}

Hi Bob,

Although the exposure process has angered & upset WS a great deal, she is getting the same basic message back...

Hurt, anger, disappointment & huge loss of respect. She also knows that OM is not welcome in any part of the family, especially her aunt who she regards as mum. WS is stubborn but will realise that as long as she is with this man, they will be outlaws as a couple.

Meanwhile, as respectfully and lovingly as possible, I'm trying to discourage her from her headlong rush to separation. She wants to buy her own car (ideally by me selling our car & buying something cheaper), She wants separate bank accounts & she wants to buy another laptop although she can use ours anytime. She's also concerned how much money we've spent on airfares recently!

I'll tell her I can't stop her but I'm not going to lift a finger myself to build separate lives; it's too early.

The boys are being great. We've done things together this week & we've got plans to go bridge swinging later this month...it entails jumping off a bridge with 120ft of rope attached to you. Sounds dangerous, but I could use an adrenaline rush.

The boys know I've got a plan & that the charm offensive starts as soon as I'm back. I need to let WS know that she is excluded from family fun without being too heavy-handed about it.

Nice to read about your d-day anniversary & how far you've come since then. I wonder what I'll news I'll be able to post next year.

Ibiza, don't do a damn thing to seperate your lives. Nothing. Not yet. Not until you have to do a plan B ( if you do)

Its much too early.

It will annoy her but she'll get over it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm still with ya too, Ib. I haven't had anything to add and you sound like you're doing well. Besides, you've got an ace up your sleeve in bOb. Hope his cape and tights aint too scratchy against your arm...
Good luck Ib. Hang in there. Not easy this plan A stuff.

Hi Bob & CD,

I've just emailed WAW. In a courteous but firm way I have spelled out my objections to her separation proposals (car, bank, etc.). I've done it now so she can digest my views before we are able to talk face to face in 2 days time.

I want to spend as little face to face time as possible at the moment talking about things where there may be a conflict. I want to concentrate more on positive things.

She is also concerned about my health, medication I am taking etc..she wants me to call her if I need looking after. I don't propose to do this. She feels guilty & I don't want her to have an opportunity to make herself feel less bad. I don't want her to play the nurse. It's no good her telling me I should put on a hard hat when it's her who's hitting me on the head.

If she chooses to spend time in my company, I would prefer it to be because she wants to, not because she feels she must.

My next danger areas are....women! A couple of nice attractive female friends are concerned about me and are happy for me to lean on them. WAW can tell me all about what happens when an insecure person cries on the shoulder of an attracive member of the opposite sex. Much as cuddle would be nice..life is complex enough already!

Ib
Read my toolkit. You are treading in my footprints mate. I got hit on hard too while Squid was a harridan.

Its all NORMAL but you MUST retain high standards atthis time Ib, whatever transpires afterwards.

It is great gain to respect your reflection mate.

Remember to tell WW at any opportunity when she says you are being unreasonable in not rushing to split yoru assets that " you are working to save your marriage and you believe such decisions should be taken after time to consider".

It’s Saturday 13 Aug as I to write this after arriving back on the island on Thursday 5th. I’ve a lot to report!

The boys & DIL were very supportive. I was very low when I first arrived back in England over 2 weeks ago. On entering #1 son’s house I remembered for the first time since d-day how much work I had done for him on the house when I was over last time. I became very angry & upset to be reminded that while I was doing good supporting our family she was alone for the 1st time on the island and took the opportunity to jump into bed with OM.

I was low for the first half of my stay but felt better towards the end. Saw the doc who gave me diazepam (tranquilizers) to use as & when required.

I resolved that the Plan A charm offensive would start with a vengeance once I got back.

I did well for the first 2 days. It was a strain keeping a smile on my face and holding back on the preaching but I did OK. The depression was kicking in big time & the pills made me feel a lot worse. The other problem with the tablets is that they don’t mix with alcohol nor should you drive. This doesn’t help socializing & I do need to mix with people.

One thing which has kept me going is HOPE. The hope that one day the affair will end & we will have a chance to rebuild our lives. On Friday 5th, I was having dinner at a friend’s house & comments made by him blew a big hole in my hope. With hindsight, I shouldn’t have taken it to heart. He’s a hard cynical person when it comes to relationships having been married three times & has just dumped his last girl friend because she’s too old. Trouble is when you’re feeling low; it doesn’t take much to undermine your confidence.

On Sat 6th I was at home on my own trying to watch a movie. I started to feel lower & lower. My heart was racing & I just couldn’t go on. I didn’t have anyone nearby to talk to so I phoned WW. I asked her where she was & she said she was at HOME. She was refering to the OM’s apartment & this hurt. She came round & found me at rock bottom. I said that I couldn’t on without her & that I needed her to help me get well. She said that if I was going to do something stupid she would have to go & pack her bags & come back to me. I realize that trapping her with guilt & pity before she was able to end the A wouldn’t work.

Finally, I calmed down & I was able to talk more rationally. We talked & WW continued her process of using our history very selectively to justify her A. She said that our marriage was shaky any way because of my melancholy frame of mind & depression. It’s true I was like this, but not all the time. I asked if she would leave me if I had cancer or a stroke because you don’t live a loyal spouse just because he’s ill.

In 1987, I was able to give up a job I hated to join my WW in her interior design business & help her build it up. It was successful & we sold it to our partners in 1992 to start a fashion business. This didn’t do well & was soon struggling. We urgently needed money to keep the business & family afloat so I went back to my old career managing social housing. I was successful on the promotion ladder but hated every moment becoming depressed & withdrawn. This put a strain on my WW but she supported me in taking 6 month’s sick leave & negotiating early retirement in 2002 because the fashion business was finally making a profit. She says she was still damaged herself when she moved to Ibiza with me & this made her cry on OM’s shoulder. So there’s me thinking I did the right thing by my family by earning money to support them even though it was painful at times, but at least I could rely on the support of WW. How naïve!

On Monday 8th, I went to see a hypnotherapist on the recommendation of a friend. I spent 4 hours with her & she helped a great deal to confront my depression & grief. I saw her again 2 days later & will see her regularly. I’m feeling stronger & hopefully won’t need ADs from the doc.

On Monday evening, feeling cross & lonely, I reflected on 2 things WW had told me. One, that this house isn’t her home any more and that OM’s ex who he finished with shortly before A was starting to rebuild her life & had cleared all OMs things from her home in London. What a good idea! This house is full of reminders of WW, especially her clothes & shoes…she’s plenty, she runs a fashion business. I packed it all up & took it to OM’s. They haven’t got room to store it but that’s not my problem & it felt so good to take more control.

I now can feel some pity for WW. I’ve hit the bottom. I can only go up & I’ve nothing to lose. My options are clear…tackle my depression, start doing constructive things, be creative & meet people. I’m doing this. I would prefer to do it with WW, but I’ll do it anyway. I need a female companion for the rest of my life. I want it to be WW but I don’t need it to be her. I still love her deeply but can manage without her although I don’t want to. She hasn’t got such positive options. All her options will cause her pain. Breaking up with OM = pain. Staying with him but being an outlaw from me & the family = pain.

I asked her what she missed about me the other day. She said my cooking (I’m a very good cook & did most of the cooking). The other thing was choosing things for the home & shopping for clothes. OM has no interest in such things. Small beginnings, but at least it's a start. His small apartment is a mess. Some of her clothes have been ruined on a rusty clothes dryer already. I saw OM in his car the other day and he’s tidied himself up. He’s shaved off his beard & had his hair cut. He also wasn’t wearing his baseball cap which is normally glued to his head. WW hates baseball caps. I think someone’s trying to change him. I wonder how he feels about it.

I’ve told my WW that I expect her to respect my home & not to come in when I’m not there. I wouldn’t be able to come & go from the OM’s. I don’t want her playing the nurse & social worker any more. She’s very welcome to come to the house if she needs something or just wants to talk to me, but that’s it.

Finally, she mentioned that that main contrast between me & the OM is that she has never met any one with such a positive attitude to life as OM. I can see that an under-developed sense of morality & a conscience helps you to just ‘go for it’ if you want something without worrying too much about the consequences.

She flies back to the UK on business for 4 weeks tomorrow. She’ll miss OM terribly but she’ll feel the disapproval & loss of respect from the family much more acutely when she can see them in the flesh again. I’m going back in a week’s time for 2 weeks. I’ll see her because I got to do some work for the business. We’ll be living 5 minutes apart. She’ll have no one to socialize with. She wants to be ‘normal’ with younger son who she works with & do small talk when they aren’t talking business. He refuses to do this & the older son still won’t talk to her at all.

When I mention how much closer I am to the boys she just shrugs her shoulders at the inference that she’s further away from then. She appears hard & unconcerned but I’m not convinced.

I don’t know how long I can keep plan A up but hope I can do it until Jan 1st which is our wedding anniversary. That’s my notional target anyway. I certainly won’t be calling her for help anymore nor doing anything which might attract her pity.

I’ve nothing more to lose & everything to gain…how does she see her options?