My WH thought I had met someone else. I had my hair done, pedicure, eyebrows ect. Got new makeup, sex under things, tanning stuff. New clothes -I spent alot of $$$ on ME. Boy it felt good to. I also was unavailable for him. Busy. Mine was still living at home. I stopped asking him question about his day, stopped asking if there was OW? I just acted like he could do what he wanted and I did not care. I bought things only for me. He finally asked me Why are you doing all of these things? I looked surprised like I did not know what he was talking about. He said your eyebrows you know I don't like them done. I said I don't care what you like anymore I do these things for me. He was shocked and that is when he started noticing me and paying more attention. He did not even know it was a plan I had done for me. I also would get a card and sign it nicely. Like I had so much fun the other day. Wanted to thank you for a nice time looking forward to doing it again. Just leave it on the counter with love from me inside. It could have been something you were going to send your Mother but he will not think so. How about making the bedroom look a little sexier ?? Mine went nuts with me buying victoria secret stuff. I bought lots of it. Even the stockings and did not wear them for him. Just some more thoughts.

well thats all good advice but I don't have the money for alot of wardrobe changes, barely can pay the bills. As far as the furniture goes I do need it and also I am in the middle of painting a room, so I will just continue to do that while he is here. I have done some changes though I cut my hair and have lost alot of weight and he has noticed those changes because he has commented on them a few times. He really like the haircut and weight change. He also has commented on how strong I am becoming. He knows I leave the house and he tries to find out from kids were I am but they say they don't know. He is noticing things and commenting on them, makes me feel good to see he has noticed.

Well no furniture showed up and no call explaining why. I didn't really think it would happen anyway. Daughter just told me of a comversation she had with WH last night. Seems she was talking to him and him and OW were ordering food or something and as they were talking OW got a little loud. He told daughter hold on.. he then told OW " Do you have to talk so loud , I am speaking to my daughter." Daughter says he sounded a little annoyed with OW. I know this is not much but so far I know of 2 things that have happen to make him be unhappy. Seems last sunday OW chewed his butt out over something our son did which was actually not that big a deal. Son had taken one of those little laser lights you can buy for like $1.50 and accidently brought it home. Well after being home for about one hour WH called and wanted to know were it was, son told him it was on the desk. About 2 hours later he called back and said they still could not find it. Son then remembered putting it in his sister's purse. So on Monday when WH came over I returned it to him. He then tells son Thanks alot , I got my butt chewed out over this. It belongs to OW's 13 yr old d and she was pissed because son messed with it. I just could not believe OW threw such a fit over something so small and trivial. And now WH telling her she talks to loud. Son has now decided he does not want to go out there again. I told him it was his choice. something tells me in my gut that LaLa Land is not all its cracked up to be. I could be wrong but I don't think so. But I am sure he would never let me know.

well thats all good advice but I don't have the money for alot of wardrobe changes, barely can pay the bills. As far as the furniture goes I do need it and also I am in the middle of painting a room, so I will just continue to do that while he is here.

Do not make the mistake of believing that any of this needs to cost you money...

the idea of him always knowing WHERE you are WHAT you are doing fits perfectly in to his comfort plan.....

the fact that he can bring over furniture...maybe even be snotty to you.....because he KNOWS you will be there
ASSUMES you have nothing else to do etc...

why not push the WS in to a little bit of a uncomfortable zone...Lord knows their actions push the BS in to limits beyond uncomfortable...

what the meat and potatoes of this advice is...

make sure you WS feels the reality and consequences of their current choices......

his attempts to appease himself and convince himself that he is still a GOOD dad...and even a GOOD husband because he throws these pathetic "helpful" actions towards you...play a huge role in his ability to compartmentalize and rationalize his actions....your being accessable feeds into their plan...

and out of current desire to see him or still be connected to the drama....you continue to subject yourself to that...


you are smarter and stronger than you think...but you have to test it yourself...

I got my butt chewed out over this. It belongs to OW's 13 yr old d and she was pissed because son messed with it. I just could not believe OW threw such a fit over something so small and trivial.

this is the real tragedy in all of this...

that your son and her daughter are forced upon one another...and already this early, pitted against one another....
that son watches dad litterrally abandon him and take NEW STRANGER WOMAN over him....

and then your husband spends energy chewing you out..

i would tell you now, do not spend one second taking any vitriol over this.....don't you do it..
you set clear and concise boundaries....over the treatment of your children in that home...document everything like this...

these children both yours and hers are pawns in their sick game of make believe...

force these children together...force them to be friends.....and all the anger and frustration and hurt and POWERLESSNESS they have over the actions of their sick parents can be misdirected at eachother....

no powerstruggling with this..
you hit this head on with the reality your husband is forcing on these children..

that people are replacable in their eyes...
and if mom displeases dad...that's no biggy cause then dad can just replace her...and children will fear that if they displease dad...he will replace them...and if HER children live with them...and your children are now VISITORS then in action you husband has already done this....

marriages that end without infidelity.... the parents and children need minimally a year to mourn and adjust and grieve the losses.....

this self thrusting of just add water and children and eveyone should be happy in the name of dad being happy is sick in my opinion....

there relationship the ow and your husband is a crap card house of make believe..their foundation is lies and pain to many innocent people...mostly the children...

.people that really want something to work in the end...put the hard work in the begining of divorcing...adjusting etc...this running to OW and dragging everyone down with them is doomed to fail...

that is why hurtingin I am urging YOU in YOUR case to mix it up a little...

and money is NOT the issue...

true reality of their choices is the issue...
you LEARNING new coping mechanisms and strength is the issue...

when he comes over there is NO reason you can't leave dressed nice and smelling great in any old thing and going to a darn book store for an hour or two and drinking coffee....it doesn't matter where you go..it matters that you go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

can that back fire....

well I believe that since you can't control anyone else but yourself...I don't think that the BS really MAKES the WS do anything ever....If BS actions had that much power...then surely they would use it to just STOP the affair and be done with the whole mess....

it is my experience here...that strong independant yet pleasant interesting BS do better in the plans..NO matter the outcome...

and while some yell game playing ....
I argue not so..
I say it is the reality of the WS actions....and they should feel that reality in doses before the ink is signed on any papers....

ARK

Ark ty for the advice. I may have not have been clear on what happen, WH did not chew me out the OW chewed him out over this. He has not been mean to me at all or chewed me out over anything since he left , except for the water bed thing whcih really was not a chewing out was more like I told you to get all the water out. I have not seen him in 2 days and have barely spoke to him except for the furniture conversation. I am laying low here , I do not call him at all and I think its for the best for now. I need for reality to hit him that I am not going to call and beg, plead and whine over anything. When I speak to him it stays on whatever reason he called for I don't engage in any R talk at all. when he has said what he needs to I ask him very sweetly anything else? He usually stumbles around and says well no and then I say ok talk to you later bye. Hope this is a smart way to handle it?

Today 15 yr old son decided he needed to tell his dad how he feels. He decided to write a letter to his dad. He asked me about it and I told him its his decsion. Not sure how WH gonna take it but thats not my problem for sure. I feel son has the right to express himself to his dad. Here is a copy of sons letter.
Dad

I have some things to say to you. I do not want you to get mad at me. I don't like that you have moved out and left me and mom. It really hurts me. I miss you very much and want you to come home. It hurts to see you with someone else. I want to no if what you said to me last saturday is the truth. Do you love mom and want to be with her? You told me that you did. I hope you were not lying to me. Please come home we love you and miss you. I do not want to come to your house anymore because I don't want to see you with NAME. I really belive you love mom and won't admit it. Dad think about it and please come home. I love you.

Love,
Son

So now the question is I hope and pray WH does not get to mad and ignor our son now. I really feel sorry for my son but I understand his need to say what he feels as well. I guess its one of those let the chips fall were they may.

I think you should sit down and open up the avenues that are possible reactions of his dads to the letter...

lead him to think through the best and worst responses....before he gives it and let him think through if he still wants to give it....

it will keep you two connected
it will prepare him
it will empower him

that's a lovely letter your son wrote...

it is good to see him able to express his feelings...
now help him with the possible responses....

talk about the I do not want you to get mad at me...line..
because his dad may well feel anger...
reassure your son that lots of people feel anger even when offered the truth of others feelings....
and that his dad really isn't mad at him...he's mad at himself and his inability to force others to accept his actions....
but don't tell him the way I'm telling you to tell...use this as a good learning exercise...lead your son down the different paths....

ark

TY Ark for that response. I have already talked to him about how his dad may react. he knows the if WH gets mad its because he will be mad at himself and his selfishness. I also told him that his dad will get over it and calm down in time. For my own reasons I hope it helps to open WH's eyes up and see a little bit of reality. Not counting on it though. I have had so many call me and say that WH sounds so unhappy and looks unhappy. I tell them I am sure he is but not yet ready to acknowledge what he has done and how it has torn our world apart. I do hope in time this will happen though. Until then keep plan A in force for a little longer ......

i say let your son send the letter. It is good for him to express how he feels about the situation. Just plain healthy.

You may even let your son know a little about the MB theory, that these WS's are like aliens, and will act nothing like his real dad.

OMG this is getting really sad for my kids and everyone who loves WH. He is just being pissy with everyone. He talks to everyone like he is mad at the world. The 18 yr old D is getting the brunt of it. So far I am only person he has not gotten pissy with. I have people calling me telling me how he is acting and talking to them and they feel he is so sad and can't help but be that way. Why is he treating everyone but me and possibly OW like this?????

Not sure if you have heard this story before, but it is such a picture of how a good man/woman can get caught up in somthing that it shows up on these boards frequently. I wanted to share it with you:

If you throw a frog into a pot of boiling water, he will quickly jump out. He knows the water is hot, and it will kill him, so he jumps out.

If you put a frog into a pot of cold water and slowly turn up the heat, he will stay in the pot and slowly start to get warmer. Eventually the water will boil, and the frog will die. The danger came too slowly and he did not see it coming.

When my WxH first left, our boys were 13 and 15. I remember well the 15 year telling me "Mom, I want to have a chance to talk to my own Dad, but I can't, because MOW is always with him. One day he called his dad and told him "I want to talk to you - alone, without MOW." But his Dad wouldn't do it. GAve son some lame excuse, and then avoided the whole subject.

A couple of weeks later #1 son was at youth group, and the pastor relayed the above frog story. Son came running into the house later saying "mom, I KNOW what happened to Dad.". He said that Dad was basically a good man. He didn't intend to get into trouble. That orignally he started out in a friendship with MOW, but eventaully it progressed from there, and now he has left us.His dad was like he frog. If you had asked him, a few years ago, if he would ever leave his wife and children for another woman, he would have said "NO WAY!". But that is exactly what he did.

If your son hasn't all ready heard this story, you should share it with him. It is a good chance to say "be careful the situations you allow yourself to get into. No drug addict ever starts out by saying "I am going to get hooked on Meth, and Coke, and anything else I can get to screw up my life." They start out with a few beers, then a"little" pot,and it progresses from there.

My sons now use this example as a way to try to understand their Dad. It doesn't excuse what he has done. But at lest it shows a picture of how their Dad could be a good man, and still get caught up in a very bad thing. Otherwise, I think kids begin to question everything that they thought they knew about their dad.

I liek your sons lettre. It is a very goo dthing to put his thoughts on paper like that.

Your WH will likely get mad, and accuse you of "putting him up to it". also, I recall hearing my WxH say "If YOU would just tell them that OW is ok, then the boys would be fine with it. It is YOUR fault that the boys are so unhappy, because they see you unhappy. You just need to get over it and then everyone will be fine.

It is all [censored].

If you hear your WH say all that stuff, just nod your head, don't say a word, and then go into the bathroom and laugh your head off, knowing that he has just followed the same stupid script!

Hurting,

Your son's letter just broke my heart. My dog jumped up and ran over when she heard me sob. I can't imagine what it'd be like to have a kid in the midst of an A. I'm so sorry that you and your son have to suffer through this. Many hugs and well-wishes to you both.

yesterday was ****** on earth. WH and I were suppose to take our grandson back to his parents in Indiana next weekend. We decided together that maybe these 4 days together would be nice and maybe have a chance to reconnect. WH then called me back and decided that this would be like a first date and was I ok with that, I agreed to take things slow. Well after some thought I called him back and said I really didn't want to go with him and told him that I felt it would be to hard on me. He kept asking me why? I said because I know I would feel good about the 4 days but once we got back he would be going back to OW and that would be like him leaving me all over again and I could not risk the pain. OMG he got so mad and hung up on me. He then called back and left me a voce mail saying ... I don't know who's advice your listening to but you agreed to this. He ranted on about how I never listened to his advice, and then he procedded to go on about I don't know who are telling whats going on but I am tired of people coming up to me and telling me what I am doing is wrong. Its no ones business what between us. He has had confrontations with many friends who tell him how wrong he is and , he is not liking it at all. He tells them to mind their own business and that he no longer wants to be friends with them. So exposure is working.. To make a long story short he called me 3 times more during the day and ranting and raving and telling me this is all my fault and how he has not loved me for the last 5 yrs ..the time limit has grown alot. He kept asking me what do I want , I told him he knows what I want and I am not going to repeat it again. His last words to me were " Well you'll never have me now." I don't understand why he became so angry over a me telling him how I felt about being with him for this trip. He then said well thats it I am coming to get the rest of my stuff and putting it in storage. I said come get it then. His anger was so out of control, I have never seen or heard him his mad. I figured he would at least understand my feelings and agree. Guess I was wrong. He then called D about 6:30 and wanted to borrow $400.00 , for a stero for his truck. She told him no because she was helping me pay the bills here. He then asked her how much money did you give your mom? She told him and he said is that all? He then wanted to know where I was and whatI was doing. She said she is home. I talked to D and asked her if she was okay with me calling WH and telling him not to use her or her brother as a way to find out whatI am doing. She said fine. I called and left a voice mail asking him to please not put the children in the middle of this. I told him if you want to know anything about me or my whereabouts to call me, because I don't call anyone and ask about him and what is he doing. I left it at that. So right now he is angry because I refuse to allow him to use me anymore and keep me hanging on the string. I also have appointment with a lawyer friday to start legal seperation. First real good dose of reality is setting in. To bad all our friends have turned on him now and he is pissed about it and told them all to F**k off. Truth hurts bad dosn't it ........

yesterday was ****** on earth. WH and I were suppose to take our grandson back to his parents in Indiana next weekend. We decided together that maybe these 4 days together would be nice and maybe have a chance to reconnect. WH then called me back and decided that this would be like a first date and was I ok with that, I agreed to take things slow. Well after some thought I called him back and said I really didn't want to go with him and told him that I felt it would be to hard on me.

Hurting in..

[color:"blue"] YOU ROCK YOU ROCK YOU ROCK!!!!!!!!!! [/color]

My heart sunk when i read the first few lines that you AGREED to a FIRST DATE...

this is where...BS fog rolls in...
they accept unrealistic actions in their lives for the sake of contact...

you can't FIRST DATE a person you married to..
you can't pretend that reality is not reality...
you can't change the definition...

and you figured THAT out and you HELD your ground....

woooooooooooo hooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!

and you communicated you inability to particpate in his make believe...

and it made poor hubby mad
booooooooooooo hooooooooooooooo!!

why is he mad...

cause you and others just don't want to play make believe with him....

wah wah wah.........

I am so proud of you....

the lesson of saying no to something that is ridiculous is
powerful...

ws sit there....
what do you mean you and friends don't want me to be happy
what do you mean you and friends don't want to play makebelieve with me....

confused he is...

To make a long story short he called me 3 times more during the day and ranting and raving and telling me this is all my fault and how he has not loved me for the last 5 yrs ..the time limit has grown alot

sit back and watch him escalate as his world of cards and make believe crumbles..

don't power struggle
change the subject
be pleasant
be charming...

be a little too busy to discuss

what is the plan with grandson now...

ARK <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

this is plan A with boundaries and strength in motion....

enough chaos....

ARK

Ty Ark for the words of encouragement. I feel so good today. As far as grandson goes my D and I are taking him back. Don't need WH to do it. What is really funny is he called this morning and left a voice mail like nothing ever happen yesterday. He was sweet and wants me to get the foggers and stuff so he can spray for the ants and all. Its like he forgot all he said yesterday. Well little does he know that I am going to tell him TY but No thanks I can spray all by myself. He is not going to drag me back on the line. I am not going to let him do anything for me. He needs to realize what he has done and pay the consequences for it. I still want M to work and I do still love him but I will not be a meek little puppet no more. NO LB's will happen from me I will be charming and polite and listen but no giving in to him anymore...... Darn I feel good !!!!!!

Hurt-

I agree with Ark. You did the right thing. Your H is angry because you're not letting him be a 'cakeater'. He's mad because he can't get his 'fix' of you as well as be with OM. He doesn't like the fact that you're taking control of the situation back into your own hands.

Personally, I think you've done well here. It isn't easy, but hopefully this will open his eyes to the fact that you're not going to just sit there and take whatever he doles out to you.

Hang in there!

Ty you owl for that post. I feel like a load has been lifted from me. WH now knows he cannot control me anymore and he is really lost and not sure what to do. I know he figures if he sweet talks me I will fall back in the trap. Well he is so wrong..... I figured it out all by myself and with the help of everyone here. Now its just a matter of time on what he will do. I just hope he realizes that as time marches on he is getting closer and closer to loosing all he has.

Great work, Hurting! I know all this is very hard, but keep in mind that nobody truly wants nor wants to be a doormat. I'm very, very proud of you!

Well this day has been one unbelievable thing after another. WH calls at 10 am and leaves voice mail about spraying house and all. About 4 pm he calls and tells me that he is coming to get his stuff this weekend to put in storage for a year. I ask 1 year whats up? he then proceeds to tell me he is going to try and get a job overseas in Iraq or one of those places. I said why ? he says because he just needs to get away and get his life straight. I was floored. He then goes into a long story of how no one loves him and how is done with all of us. Our children and grandchildren and his family. He says I am done with you , I don't love you anymore. I ask him how can you walk away from all of us and 24 yrs so easy. He says I can do it. I won't be letting you know where I am or taking any pictures of any of you with me. He says if he can get to a computer he will email us, but no snail mail so we won't know where he is. He tod me to go on with my life and forget him and that he ever exsisted. I said well maybe you can forget but I just can't forget like that. I told him I will move on but never forget the good yrs we had. I then asked him if you love OW so much why are you leaving her? He said well I really don't want to, but this is something I have to do. I said what if you don't get one of those jobs? He said then I will go somewhere that no one knows me and start over. He says I need to get a good job so I can get my credit straightened out. I know he has tried to get a loan about 2 weeks ago and got turned down. He then says well if I get the job I will call and let you know. He then says if something happens to me over there they will let my mom know and she will tell you. This man has no money as it is, how does he think he can go anywhere and his truck is old and won't make it far. This is the same man who 2 days ago wanted to go slow and see if we could work things out. It's like since I made him mad yesterday because I stood up for myself he now has come up with this crazy plan. I am beginning to wonder if he has more problems than just an A going on. I think he make be having a breakdown or something. I am worried about him now, but that does not change how I will react to his ramblings. I can't believe a word he says anymore. To go from spraying for ants and fleas this morning to this life altering story is beyond anything I understand. I tried mentioning maybe he needs some counsleing and he got mad and said nothing is wrong with him. it's still everyone elses fault that he is like this or so he says. I am really confused by him now. I talked to my brother who was once a WH and he says he is just trying to play on our sympothy for us to feel sorry for him. He says WH isn't going anywhere and since he got mad yesterday that he feels out of control and this is his way of getting me back under his thumb. Yes I fell for some of it and did cry on the phone. Bother also feels WH is scrambling for money so he can get his own place, he thinks that WH is not happy with OW or else OW has told him this is not working for her. Now weather this is true or not who knows but I do know one thing WH is really confused and in not just a fog but pea soup fog.