If it's any consolation, I said and thought the same thing while I was in my fog. I seriously considered taking a 3-month sabbatical to some place overseas that had no phone/mail/email access so that I can completely remove myself from the OM and clear my head. I got as far as a cabin on a lake only 1.5 hours away. Stayed there for 3 days. Thought I was going to chew through the walls before I called the OM and was back to Square 1.

If your H is saying these things, then he must be going through that limbo-h*ll that I was telling you about. His indecision and guilt is consuming him and is tearing him apart. Again, it takes a nut to know a nut. Guilty as charged. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

The good news? If he can actually get away from the OW and get past the withdrawals, he then can truly clear his head and see the error of his ways. While this seems like the end, it may not be such a bad idea after all. Just a thought.

Whisper, Thank you for that post. It makes me feel better knowing that this is something some people do. I was really worried he may be losing it. I am scared for him right now that something really is wrong. You have nade me feel somewhat better. I hope he does have the chance to be by himself to clear his head. I am praying for him every night .....

You are doing just fine. It sounds very much like the things you are doing are working. Be patient, and hang on to those great boundaries! Give that guy a run for his money. He is sly, but not as sly as you.

thank you believer for that positive post. I just hope and pray that he is starting to see what he has done. His mother was with me during that phone call and she took the phone from me and told him dosn't he know how he is tearing me up? He said some rude things to her and hung up. Guess he could not take the truth again .....

Hurting ~ I just read your thread.

You are one classy lady. Hang in there ~ because no matter what happens, you are going to be able to hold your head high and know that you did everything you could.

Turn your home into a quiey place of order and peace, a haven for your kids to be safe in, and let your husband do his chaotic spinning out of sight.

((((hugs))))

{{{{hurting}}} sorry for your pain. You are doing really well. It almost sounds like he wanted you to beg him to stay...like a small child planning to runaway "I'll runaway, far away...then they'll be sorry...I'll show 'em."

It does sounds like his is conflicted for a WS I think thats a good thing.

Ty Bramble for those kind words. I don't feel so classy about now. I feel worried about WH and angry at the same time. The hurt he has caused me is awful but I still have the love for him that will never go away. I will not give up until the bitter end. Maybe today was the end I don't know but one thing is for sure , I will survive this and be happy. The kids and I have been working on the house and making it a nice place to be. I just pray someday WH will be here to share it with us. Everyone here has been such a great support and I appreciate it so much .... ((((hugssss_))) to all of you ....._

hurting -

It is fine that you are worried about WH, and also angry. Who wouldn't be?

And I promise you that today wasn't the end. There is much more to come, so rest up.

confused you may be right. I did ask him if we could sit down and discuss this but he refused to do it. He sounded so sure and serious of what he wanted. It was like talking to a machine no feelings or emotion in his voice at all, thats what scared me the most I guess. 18 yr old D called him and asked him about it all and he told her that no one loves him or cares. She told him thats not true she loves him as well as mom does. She said to him if nothing else dad at least be friends with mom and be civil. He told her he could do that but he still thinks leaving was the best thing to do. D then cried and could not speak to him any longer. I just can't believe he could turn on his own chldren in such a way. His relationship with them is being damanged more every day by how he is acting. I don't know if he will ever be able to repair those relationships if he keeps this up.

After a night of only 3 hours sleep I have woken up full of doubt. What if everything WH said yesterday is how he truely feels. Maybe he really is done with me, maybe he really does not love me anymore. What if he really does leave? I keep telling myself that I know he does love me because if he didn't I would feel it in my heart. He was so unemotional when he told me that yesterday, it was scary. Wouldn't I feel it if all he said was true? I am really scared that it all may be true. I just can't imagine that a person could become so unemotional and uncaring in such a short time. How do you just stop loving someone after 24 yrs together so quickly? Just in May he was asking some of my friends to please see if they could help pull me out of the depression I was in, they said he was crying and so worried. He told them he fell in love with me the first time he saw me and was still in love with me to that day. How in 2 and a half months does it go from that to this? Yesterday I went to pick D up and he was outside talking to her and I had grandson in the car as I pulled up he looked at the car and could not even look at me, he acknowledged grandson but would not even come near the car to see him. Then I get the call 2 hours later with all of the things he said to me about leaving and and how he is done with me and don't love me. Why is he trying so hard to make everyone hate him? He has turned on everyone and is trying to make all of us hate him. I just don't understand it.

This is part of his escalating...

he tried the everyone pretend this is normal route...

and people aren't really interested in him doing whatever he wants...as long as it makes him happy ...route....

so now he's going the fine I will just disappear route....

keep telling him you love him
tell him it sounds like he is sad..and that leaving will make him more sad...

tell him you worry about his health..
how he is sleeping
how he is eating...

(WS don't expect BS to CARE about those things...they expect WS to say..good riddance I hope you are suffering...)

tell him how sad it is that he chooses to leave the grandchildren....for they love him...

no more asking how can you do this...

listen and say little...
echo emotions..

that sounds sad
that sounds like quite an adventure
and he must be a very strong person to be able to leave like that....

tell him things that surprise him....

he expects don't go

tell him gosh I will miss you so much it's hard to imagine..

ask what type of bug spray does one need where he is going...

ARK

Ark thats very good advice. you say this is part of his escalating, just exactlly what does that mean? Is this the beginning of realizing what he has done or just a pity party? He is so stubborn and pig headed that I feel if he has started to see the errors of his way he will continue on this path to prove a point. Explain please what the escalalting is....

After sitting here and doing some thinking I came to a realazation, maybe I am wrong but it makes sense to me. If WH really feels as he says why didn't he just walk away with out saying anything. I feel if you really don't love someone or care about them why would you call them or come by were they are and want to do things for them? WH called a few minutes ago and asked me to go get the part for my car so he could put it on. If he does not care why is he still wanting to do things for me? Why is he calling me telling me he is running away? If it was me and I felt the way he claims he does I would just walk away and never look back. Am I correct on this or is it just my mind is playing tricks on me?

You are correct....

he is big time attention seeking...

and make no mistake he is lost...and feels horrible...

he is like the teenager that rebels...then trys the you don't love me route when the rules of the universe have consequences....



how many teenagers threaten to run away...

tell him thanks for the offer of the car part...but you have already made arrangements for someone else to do it..
thank him graciously...

as in please you have so much on your plate right now...don't worry about the car...it's taken care of.....

and please hurtin....spray for fleas yourself...

when he does come over have that home in tip top shape..
a haven....

he's running from himself...
this is a great time to show him love and hope...but from a distance...

don't power struggle his outrageous plans...

WHO GOES TO IRAQ TO GET CALM AND FOCUSED????

wouldn't a tibeten monastary prove him better....

show him hope...

show him that you believe in him...

tell him kindly that perhaps what he is searching for is right in front of him....and he hopes he can see how many people love him....
BUT
that each of us must choose our paths....

you are right about his emotion...he is ANYTHING but apathatic....which is how someone who has really processed and made sound decisions of leaving are....

have you read the lighthouse post....

ARK

Yes Ark I read the lighthouse and I printed it out to re read. I thought it was a wonderful piece of work. So now I am sitting here feeling like an idiot because I fell for his crap yesterday. I can't believe I was so gulliable. But I do keep in the back of my mind he may have been telling the truth. Guess only time will tell...... Its almost laughable all of these crazy things he is saying..

you didn't fall for it....

and you are certainly not the idiot here...

how do you handle a teenager when they want to leave..

boy I am going to miss you
geez that really makes me sad that you feel that way...
play Jim Croce ooooh baby baby it's a hard world in the background...

you didn't fall for anything...

he may leave...but the truth is wherever he goes there he is....

Dorothy in the wizard of oz figured it out...

it's not crap, he really does feel like running..
facing himself...(facing ourselves....not just him all of us is hard hard hard...

it's so typical for us humans to turn anger and pain on others yet when we calm down and really look at who we are mad it...often it is ourselves...

and he engaged in so MANY things that were of his doing...it's a huge bite to swallow....

I don't agree that running is the answer....
and you shouldn't either...
BUT
not because you buy the REASONS he is trying to sell...

but because you believe it will hurt him more....

can you say things lovingly like...

dear it is my opinion that lately you have made some bad choices that have hurt you....and that perhaps it's possible that this choice to leave is a huge one...and it maybe that you aren't really thinking clearly enough to make such a big decision...

can you turn your responses ALL around to where you don't discuss any of the affects on you...but how they affect him...

agree that you understand his wanting to leave
tell him that he can't imagine the NUMBER of times that in the past months you have thought about leaving.....
just picking up and going somewhere fresh and new..

that you know how he feels...
and you know how BAD that feeling is...
because while it's exciting on the surface...the depth is pain...

pain of being alone
pain of missing those that you love....

have you said inspite of the fact that you think your family doesn't love you.....does that mean you don't love them.....

that to give love he is a being that must receive love...

just talking out loud here...

ark

Ark I never thought of those things like that. I know he is hurting and confused and thats why I worry about him leaving and that he will have no one to be there for him and he will crack. I also wonder if things with OW are starting to crumble with all of her drama and the chaos in her home. Its not just her and her D, its also her sister and her sister's son and grandson whom is a handful due to ADHD and many other mental problems. WH went from our home to a home filled with drama, the exact thing he was running from. They allow him to displine this child and say its ok. He went from a home to an small apt. with all of these people living there. I can't imagine he is happy even though he says he is. If you can't handle your own children who really are not bad kids just lazy, how could you handle something that is worse. Thats why I feel he thinks he needs to runaway, its because of guilt, indescion and just maybe the fact he really feels unloved by all. He said to me yesterday I know you love me but it does not matter, because I don't love you anymore. Ark I feel so hurt by those words because he has said them to me 5 times in the last month. Maybe he is telling the truth, but I don't feel it in my heart and I see it in his face when he looks at me. I have seen that look for 24 yrs and I know it. Why can't he see it??????

You said: "I was really worried he may be losing it."

Unfortunately, this is not too far from the truth. I felt like this for 1.5 years. That's why I said earlier he must be consumed by this mayhem he's caused. For most part, I've said and done everything you've mentioned your H has and then some. After my H and I separated, I used to go home during lunch and clean the house, do his laundry and pay the bills. I did this for almost a whole year! Why? Out of guilt. The good news is there wouldn't be guilt if there wasn't some emotional attachment too. Unfortunately, when a WS is in his/her fog, they don't discern this fact.

Hang in there.

why I worry about him leaving and that he will have no one to be there for him and he will crack.

that's his choice...another in a long line of bad ones...
BUT I wouldn't give too much credence to that right now...

because I don't love you anymore. Ark I feel so hurt by those words because he has said them to me 5 times in the last month.

those words hurt...yet they are as empty and meainingless as him using the words I LOVE you...with the OP

WS are so far removed from love really is...love is NOT a feeling...it's not..it's ACTION...and the feelings of love and loving follow actions...

and the real actions of LOVE are

honor
respect
honesty
dignity
and being a better for someone else...

that's why the word love...
either saying to an OP
or with-holding it from a spouse..
HAVE NO MEANING....

Ofcourse he doesn't love you ...he doesn't act loving..

infact if he says it again I would say....

Why are you telling me this?

Or say.
Well ofcourse you don't love me...you have shown that in your actions....

don't power struggle it...
babble it back....

even try..
well that's good you don't love me...cause that explains how you are able to treat me.....
it would be scary if you said you did love and treated me as you do...... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

there is NO logical reason or point to tell someone you don't love them..

it is attention seeking babble....

the word love from a WS in any shape or form unless referring to the love of chocolate is wasted words....

they have no concrete definition of the word and have changed and manipulated it fit their agenda....
and it doesn't fit anywhere else in the world...

the gross disrespect he and this OW have brought to the children in thier worlds is monumental....

for that ow to bring a stranger in to her home..in to childs life..speaks volumes of how f---- up she is....
and his participation...in that is f---up as well..
and his now plan to abandon that child becomes he doesn't FEEL love is ludacrious....

woes to the children in this yours and hers....and shame to the adults who bring it to their worlds..

even truth is a word that is action...
he can not speak the truth...because he does not know what that means.....for his truths lack truthful actions...

stand proud
stand firm
stand removed from chaos.....
and be the one who shows him how to find himself again...

hold your tongue on blame...and speak to his pain....
for he can't face the blame at once...

ARK

whisper, ty for that encouragement. One thing is for sure he can't come and go here I took the house key from him when he left. Of course that made him real mad. He called d a few mins. ago and wanted her to go to Home Depot to buy the fogger. Well this is were the OW works. D said to him you really want me to go to Home Depot? He then got mad at her and said forget it. I guess he realized her going there and maybe seeing OW was not a good thing or else he can't figure out why it would bother her to run into OW. Another question for you if you don't mind answering it, did you tell your H over and over you didn't love him? WH has told me this at least once a week since this has all started.... I just can't believe its true, but then again maybe so.....