I think it might be somewhat early for a Plan B attempt. Your husband seems quite attached to you, and will make it hard to stick to. So take your time, and if you decide to go to Plan B, get everything line up first.

Believer,

I no he is attached because he won't leave me alone but its so hard to see him and talk to him everyday. Are you saying that if I Plan B already it could backfire because of the attachement?

I'm saying that YOU may not be able to stick to Plan B, which is the worst mistake of all.

You probably are right about that for now. I am not sure I am strong enough to stick to it. I still feel the need to at least talk to him even if I don't see him. I hate feeling like this. Bit I am smart enoughto know without Plan B at some point this will never resolve itself. I just have to get strong enough to do it......

Well, in my case, when I went to Plan B, my WH showed up on my porch, and knocked on the door for 2 hours, trying to talk to me. Then he showed up at work. It went like that for the first 2 weeks. Then I heard nothing for 4 months, when he called me at work and said he was in the process of moving back in. I had to go to court to keep him out, as he never did get the NC with OW part of the Plan B letter.

wow believer thats incrediable. And I know one thing if WH came to my door like that I know I could not answer it for that long. I do have one question though is it ever possible to recover your marriage without plan b? what if the A ends before you get there, is p;an b still something you should do? and the reason I ask this is because he keeps talking about being by himself and maybe going back out on the road. He has also mentioned just living by himself. Not sure if he will do it but if he does is it possible to rebuild without plan b?

New here too and must admit I am equivalent of H in this scenario and Whisper in her past scenario except that I have not moved out. I want to ask Whisper (in the hope of helping me and Hurting) how did u arrive at the decision/revelation to return home? I amlucky that my H is like Hurting and Whisper's H in that he says he wants to put my A behind us and try to learn to meet my emotional needs which he admits he neglected for years. I am having a hard time in making the U-turn to return becasue I am of the belief that my PA turned EA has led me to my soulmate, despite how rotten I feel about the pain I am causing my H - I never realized he cared this much about the state of our M. So if Whisper or anyone else out there has their experiences to share I'd appreciate it.

NO POST HIJACKING PLEEEEEZE? If you have a question for whisper or another WS, post it to them and do not hijack this thread as it's about a BS who needs help asap.

TO Hurting in OK:

About plan B. Plan b saved my sanity. If executed properly , it will work well. My xh is just imho, a moron and is now cheating on his ow/w quite proficiently...after marrying his "soulmate" and 16 mos. together. Romantic huh? Such is the lot of an affair marriage.

Back to plan B.

What you are doing now is NOT WORKING. That's the definition of insanity as said by Einstein. If it's not working you gotta change the dynamics.

He's got this OW meeting his needs and doing all she can to reel him in. He's got you meeting some EN's such as conversation, empathy and such. But it is NOT making him want to return to you b/c OW is meeting the other needs too. Logically think of this.

Plus it's unhealthy to be sooo dependent on somebody else that you can't bear to go a few weeks without their voice. Sure it may be habit, but are you gonna miss conversing with the alien? I think really not deep down. So when the addiction to the talking comes, call a friend, go see a buddy or relative, or talk to your kids. That's what I did.

Plan B gives you clarity and sanity. It is about you thinking and letting the WS see how the OP is not this wonderful 100 percent angel he thinks she is. Let them fall into each others' arms...and lovebust like heck!

Show him you're not there. Give him a taste of real freedom...he he...WS call it freedom...when they're leaving a monagamous marriage into instantly a "pretend monagamous" affair with somebody else. Where's the darn freedom I ask you? It is NOT there.

They're off searching for some magic pill or bullet and it is not there. What they are lacking, your WS, is inside of himself and he isn't smart enough to figure that part out. He has to heal himself and then your m would be much better and he'd feel better.

But he's addicted. He's a full blown alien now and you need to let him know 100 percent what life is like living on the mothership full time.

Despite my divorce, my xh has confided in his business partner and his W. It is sad but he's said that he wished that none of this had ever happened. That's what I was told. But his choices led to horrible end results...and I couldn't stick around anymore...he was never strong enough or had enough cajones to do what was right and not do what felt good. Incidentally, my xh came home after plan B...and after he left the last time after I did a great B, I knew enough was enough. Funny, he kept on trying even though I was done by then. Kept trying to test the waters. But that is NO life.

Plan B does not always lead to divorce. Many many people recover here on MB. But you gotta follow the plan.

Too long doing a plan A? That's bad enough. You know when it's time for B. Now is time for B.

Get help writing your letter. Execute it. Give him to her and be done with it and have some sanity for a while. When he's gone, he will trust me..think about things. It has made many a WS turn around in their tracks. Suddenly, you're gone. Isn't t hat what they wanted? It sure seems like it doesn't it? But suddenly the WS sees things differently. They can't have both. And most of the time, they realize they had time with their spouse, they have a history. And a family. And a home. And a past that cannot be erased no matter how they try to rewrite their romantic history. And that fear, that horrible realization they destroyed a family, can be sobering and make the addicted return home and end a destructive affair addiction.

You can't control him. What happens is his choice. But whwat you do is your choice. You can not do a thing and continue whawt you're doing now...which is not that much...or you can get active, learn, and be brave for your family and do the MB approach right.

Many times well executed plan B's can save a marriage on the edge of divorce.

YOu're strong enough. Strong enough to do this. YOu gotta do this for your kids, your family and your M.

I know all of you are right and I just have to get it done. It will be hard but I have no choices left anymore. If it pushes him away then so be it, I will live through it. I don't want to loose the love I have for him. And everytime he opens his mouth anymore it takes a little bit of it away. I just can't believe that someone who has loved you and been there for you for so many years can hurt you so bad that you think you are going to die. When we had no contact for 6 days in a row I was feeling so good and then boom there he was again. I am going to start working on the letter,I will post it after I am done for advice. May take a few days to work it all out .

hurting - Once the affair is exposed, and Plan A has been followed, if the WS doesn't end it, time for Plan B. Usually it takes Plan B to end it. There are a few here whose WS's ended the A in Plan A, but not the majority.

Laura - Start your own thread so that we don't get mixed up.

It is my humble opinion you stay in a stellar plan A like you are in now...

mix it up with some not so available and get his attention actions...

then a bang off plan A experience...then sock him with plan b...

it is only confusion that on your part that plan B would be the cause of him going further with her..

Plan B is the freedom for him to choose whatever he wants...but states clearly that you CHOOSE not to live in a triangle...

ARK

thank you ark for that last post. Your right it is his decsion on what he chooses to do. The rollercoaster is making me sick. I have done good though with not alays answering the phone when he calls. Last night his momhad a party for his sister. We were both there and I took my cell phone and went outside. As I was going out he asked me who are you calling? I looked at him and said I 'm not sure yet. and walked out the door. After a few mins. he came out and sat down and was eating his food. He said arn't you going to eat? I said no I'm not hungry, he got mad and said you need to eat, you are losing to much weight so fast. I said don't worry about it. I'm ok. I got up and walked away and he looks at me and said when did you get the ankle braclet your wearing? I said I had that since the beginning of the summer before you ever left. I have been wearing it for months, he said I never noticed it before. He was questioning me on my new shoes as well. I think its strange how now he is noticing things that I had before he ever left and commenting on them. He notices new clothes or how I have changed my hair and little things like that. Pretty bad it took this for him to notice stuff.....

Objective is for the letter. What is your objective with your plan B letter. Yes, this is a test question to see if you understand the plan B concept. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

The personal boundaries is what you need t/d B4 you execute any type of plan B or do a letter. You need to id your personal boundaries since this will help you keep focused.

As you can see the WS is all over the place with his emotions. It changes not day to day, not hour to hour but in some cases in minutes or even seconds. I have seen the switch. It is scary. When in contact, watch his eyes. Like liars, they can't stand t/b obeserved. It leaves them exposed and nekked. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

So id your personal boundaries, things which you know you will NEVER compromise on. Your list may start out long but will truly end up t/b just a few 1 - 3 things. Concentrate on these few items then enforcing your personal boundaries will help you stick with a good plan B.

Don't rush into plan B either. Ark is right, while you need to go to plan B now, your heart isn't quite ready so you need to get prepped.

Go get that book called: Boundaries. It is lite blue and black and in paperback. Read it. Then let's talk again.

take care,
L.

Orchid,

I am so confused right now I am not sure were I am. I feel like I am in a fog myself. I do real well for a few days in boundries then , boom all of a sudden he crosses those lines again and I fall for it. I stood up to him about going to Indiana to take grandson back and he blew a gasket, but I stood firm.

Then all ****** broke loose and he wanted a D and was done with me. Next thing I know he is leaving and forgetting us all and we should forget him. Then he changes again and says he is staying but really is done. Next day he loves me and wants to come home then next day its I love you both equally and am torn. ...

I do know one boundry for sure is I do not want to hear anymore about what OW does for him or what they do or their sex life. I can't for the life of me figure why he thinks I need or want to hear those things. Last night before leaving he told me I love you again. Today he calls and its all about fogging the house, buying grocery's and stupid crap. He says I may try and come one day this week to haul of the big crap from the yard. He is back to acting indiffrent to me. Which actually is good for me right now, I would rather have that , than to hear I love you and then he moves on back to OW. I know I am not ready for a full Plan B yet but I am limiting contact by not calling him or asking him to do anyting. I also am not going to answer every call he makes. I didn't answer the last one and left voice mail and then calls home phone to let me know he left voice message. Makes no sense to me.....

Hurting -

I think Orchid and Ark are right. You can work on yourself a little bit before going to Plan B.

Also try to detach a little from WH's ups and downs. It is very draining to try to figure out what the WS is thinking - even they don't know, most of the time.

Your time would be better spent shining those toilets.

U R filling his need for attention. All ain't well in lala land. OW isn't meeting his needs and as a WS he needs them met, real bad. Very selfish if you ask me.

So what should you do? IMHO, not meet those needs. Show him by your actions with minimal intermitant convo (when you are strong enough to handle it), show him you are doing ok.

Your WS seems t/b a K-I-S-A kinda guy. Which means if he can't be given the opportunity to shine for you and you acknowledge it, then he can't go back and do the same for the OW who craves it.

It's a game. You decide whether you want t/b a part of it or not.

You may have ID'd one of your boundaries. There probably are a couple more. Go find them. You need to know this before you can make your plan.

When you do your part of the roller coaster ride with the fog will clear up and slow down. You will not get as sick and when you do it w/b something you can handle and bounce back from much faster.

take care,
L.

Thank you Orchid what you have said really makes sense to me. I have the feeling all is not well in lala land myself just by some of the things he says. But he continues to tell me he is happy and stress free. guess thats why he is having migraine headaches. lol I do pretty good with minimual conversation as it is now. I did not answer any of his other calls today at all. In fact this is kinda funny. He has been at OW's home now 3 weeks today. He never has called me from there at all, its like once he got home at night and on weekends he fell off the face of the earth. Well in the last 4 days he has called me numerous times from there. In fact yestwerday it was to ask me a trivia question that no one including the intelligent OW knew the answer to. I find it humerous that he now will call me from there when before it was total silence. In fact he told me if I needed to talk to him I could call there. Well that will be a cold day in ****** before that happens..... I feel so much better tonight than I did this morning for sure. ty all for the advice , I will heed to it.

Just a quick question. I was wondering if it would b wise to let the OW know that wH is lying to her? She thinks he is being faithful to her , which is not true, we have been together a few times since he moved with her, he has not told her he is talking about coming home. Seems he has told her that our M was over and she thinks a D is upcoming... So would exposing his lies to her make any diffrence?

Oh yeah and the fact he let me read the letters she wrote him... Those would be easy to prove because I remember alot of what they said

Orchid: Wouldn't do your cause any good. See your word is nothing to her. Or at least that is what she will babble back to you. Nope, for her to continue t/b an OW, you as the BS must be a bad person. She will not believe you. But you can send that same message via the WS.

How? Welp, this is the fun part of reverse babble. You can get the WS to LB the OW and visa versa without lifting a finger.

See the more aloof you are the more you throw a monkey wrench into their A. You are not giving them any convo to beat you down with. When you remove yourself from their drama, they have less to gossip about. U do realize that you are a hot topic for them. Their history can not exist without BS fuel. That is why it is important for the BS NOT to make him/herself a fool. LOL!! Play on words there. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

The less you give them to talk about, the more desparate they (especially the OW) will become. When that happens the OW will slip and do something well....stupid, like maybe call you. Then if you are ready, you will be able to whop her up side her alien being with your reverse babble.

Let me give you a real life experience. In our case the OW (let's call her PBR - psycho babble rabbit), PBR needed to be fueld by gossip from the WS. She loved to hear the WS say stuff about me and she would embellish it.

WS: My W doesn't have time for me. She neglects me but she always has time for her friends and family.

OW: U poor man. Here let me undress and give you attention. Tell me more about your wicked wife.

WS: No you don't understand, my wife is a good person. She just is too busy to cater to all my needs. I want her to always be there for me. I don't want to do the same in return, I just want her to do stuff for me. U know be selfish. My W does not understand I want t/b selfish.

OW: U poor man. Here let me undress and give you attention. Your W is wicked to not let you be selfish. She must be evil and a tyrant. Yes, she is a control freak. She takes all your $$ and gives you nothing. Here let me undress and you tell me more.

WS: No you don't understand, my W makes more $$ than me but won't let me run my business into the ground as I have been. She wants me to be more business like but I want to spend my mornings surfing the internet looking at bad things then go to work for a few hours in the afternoon and claim I worked all day.

OW: U poor man. Here let me undress. Your W is wicked, evil and cruel. She won't let you make you succeed in your business. I will help you with your business. Let's both get undressed and practice this business.

WS: No you don't understand, my W does not want me surfing the net looking at porn. She found out, she is not happy. She works long hours, pays the bills, cleans the house, takes care of our child, helps out with my family's problems (they visit every week with a new problem), helps her friends, rarely has time for herself. I even have to fend for myself and cook canned chili beans. NOTE: I always left food in the fridge. He cooked those beans because he liked them. LOL!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

At this point, I get an e-mail from the OW. She berates me accuses me of being 'evil, wicked, being a lesbian, abusive to my H and child, having an affair with my FIL, a liar, a cheat, a hypocrite, etc. In the same e-mail she says that she is going to make the WS 'healtier, happier and richer' than he ever was with his family.

Imagine that! I told her 'go ahead. You can have him. If you want that challenge, go ahead.

Well since I didn't go to pieces with her idle threats, she sent another e-mail to the WS telling him to be on watch for L. She said 'L is up to something, she has been too quiet. ' LOL!!! See you can make the OW nervous just from implementing plan B like tactics. Don't let the OW get to you. She isn't that smart.


Orchid: I read their e-mails also. PBR was a real babbler. She prided herself on the fact that she would keep her H up all night long talking. I asked the WS what did her H do, he said he was told by PBR that her H would just tune her out. Stupid or what? Then I asked if PBR did that to the WS? He said, she tried but he would leave when she did. LOL!!!

A BS usually remembers waay more details than a WS realizes. It is embedded in our brains. I kept copies of her torrid e-mails and in a few cases sent them to her e-mail server company. That got a few of her e-mail accounts shut down. She never accused me of being the one who instigated it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.