2long, I am so very sorry to hear about your father's passing. You will be in my prayers tonight.

Today, we went as a family to a picnic with my brother's family and my parents. My parents know about the EA, but haven't come over to see us since the exposure (on my recommendation). So today was the first time my WW and parents saw each other since I told them. My WW was a little apprehensive, but my parents treated her as they normally do and did not bring up the EA. I think she was glad for that.

She is still distant and somewhat cold to me. I try to converse with her but all I get back right now is just a few words if any. Whenever I think of her talking to OM and asking him all these questions and also asking "if she is bugging him" it makes me sick to my stomach. She used to be that way with me a long time ago.

JL, I used the trust speech on her the othe night and told her:
"You can trust if either you, our kids or our marriage is threatened, I will do whatever it takes to protect you, our kids and our marriage"

I also asked her point blank if she has feeling for OM and she said no. So I said "swear on your kids" and she said "yes, no feelings". This must be fog talk or just another lie.

The OM is feeding her EN of conversation and affection right now. She won't let me provide any of these to her. He is seperated and my WW's girlfriend is also seperated so I'm sure they are just filling her head on how marriage is a waste and being single is the way to go. She really need to get out of that situation.

Melodylane your signature that states "When you start to move the boundaries a little, it usually turns into "alot." Dr. SourMash, is so very true. I find that I have been a little lax on my boundaries lately, so I will have to tighten them up a little. If she continues to exceed a boundary I will have to creat some caos for WW.

She said she feels smothered and controled giving the example that she can't even go to lunch or a coffee without feeling like somebody is watching her. I guess that's good investigation and exposure do. I think she feels I hired a PI since she asked me about it.

Almost everyone is asking me if I am sick since I have lost about 15 pounds and now weight about 170lbs at 6 feet tall. I think it was Mortorman who called it the infidelity diet <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Well let's see what tomorrow brings.

BB, when I called to get a status update they said "the matter is being dealt with" and they asked "would you like to add anything else" to which I replied "I just want to know what the end result is" and that is it.

So could they have sent in a request to my WW's company for results of the investigation? That may explain the "new complaint", but doesn't explain the 5 day time lag.

I hope to find out today.

When my WW found Dr. Harley's book "His Needs, Her Needs: How to Affair Proof a Marraige" on my night table, she became upset with me. She feels that by reading this book I am convinced that she is having an A and it makes her upset. Well I told her that I feel her EA is almost as bad as a PA and hurts me, and that this book is for me to become a better person and husband.

You would think your spouse would be encourage to see you get professional advice on improving a marraige. But I finished the book and will re-read it this week. I will also read Surviving and Affair and Lovebusters. I want to have WW fill out the LB and EN questionaires, but I don't know if she will do it right now. I will ask her in a nice way on a day that she seems a little more receptive to me.
Can WW be expected to answer these questionaires accurately when they are in the middle of an EA?

What does it usually mean when WW is in a good mood towards me? Has she been in contact with OM and is feeling good? Is the opposite true, so she would be in a bad mood towards me if she hasn't contacted OM or the contact was of poor quality?

I remember WW coming home from work some days prior to d-day and being in a foul mood towards me. I didn't do a thing to provoke her.

If it comes down to Plan B, I really don't feel like I should have to leave my house and kids, after all is was my WW who had the affair. What are my option?

1. Leave my house and kids
2. Do plan B while living from home
3. Ask my WW to leave

I wouldn't worry about Plan B just yet. You might want to write up a letter, and keep it in your back pocket, though. In Plan B, your wife needs to leave.

If it comes to that (but hopefully it won't), you just need to tell her that you love her and will fight for your family, but you are not her warden. If she decides to continue the A, she needs to do it from somewhere else than the family home.

Well yesterday WW was very cold to me so I didn't bother bringing up the work complaint to see who the complaint was from. I will probably try asking tonight if she is in a better mood. She is on vacation now and has probably not spoken to OM in a few days, could her anger towards me be some withdrawl symptoms even though it is only a few days.

She is just cold towards everyone who loves her right now and wants her to do the right thing. The only people she is content around or speaking to are the OM and her girlfriend who support whatever she says or feels. It's the path of least resistance and it's the road she feels most at ease with.

This morning I left her some extra money since I heard her say she would be going out with the kids today. I also attahced a small note signed "Love You". I don't think that is overbearing at this point, but considering she is so cold to me I just wanted to keep that in her mind.

As everyone here knows, dealing with this type of situation can be extremely draining both emotionally and physically. Mentally, I have difficulty concentrating and find myself constantly thinking about the situation and my WW. I can't seem to get it out of my mind for even a few minutes. Physically, I have lost about 15lbs and I was faily thin to begin with. People have been asking me if I'm sick and they are also noticing that I am preoccupied with something.

The only things in my life that bring joy to me right now are my wonderful kids. Last night my kids we playing and acting up after dinner when my WW yelled at my DD and kind of scared her a little. I took my daughter and asked her to play quietly. They continued to act up so, I calmly gave them a brief time out to settle them down. My WW seemed to support this action since she told my DD "daddy asked you many times to settle down and you didn't listen so he had to give you a time out". After the time out I explained to my kids why I did it and told them that I didn't mind when the play, but I want them to do it without screaming or hurting each other and that I loved them very much.

SO this may be one of those down days on the great roller coaster ride called infidelity.

Thanks for listening.

The above quote of from one of Dr. Haley's Q&A's. I believe this is one of my main problems. How do I show her affection without smothering her? I don't think she wants to hear me say that I love her right now, or does she? The last time I sent her flowers she couldn't appreciate them and said it was overkill. Should it just be the small things (i.e. get her a coffee, pick up some take-out so she doesn't have to cook, tell her she looks great, etc).

Your thoughts are welcome.
Thanks

^bump^

Just hoping to get some feedback. Thanks.

I have yet to ask my WW if she wants to work on fixing our marriage. She knows how I feel since I have told her many times, but I don't know where she stands. The only problem if she says yes, then what do I do since she won't quit her job and contact with the OM?

I just feel like everything is in slow motion right now.

Well last night was a disaster. I come home and find out that my MIL came over to talk to my WW. She told her about the taped telephone calls and that I let her listen to them. My MIL threatened to disown her if she breaks up this marriage. My WW said she can't stand me and said "why don't you just leave", to which I responded "I don't want to leave, I want to work on our marriage". She also said why couldn't you just come to me and tell me your concerns without having to all this", to which I replied, "I did tell you and you didn't do anything about it and you told me you can't tell me the truth because it would hurt me".

She contiuned to support her claim that it is just a friendship and that she has many male friends at her work due to the nature of her job. I still bothers me though.

So she asked me to just leave her alone. Finally I suggested we get some MC to help us through this and she agreed. We will wait a couple of weeks jus to let our emotions settle a little. I'm thinking of contacting Steve Harley and setting up a session with him. I need something that can help becuase right now we don't seem to have much. The honesty and trust in our R is at an all time low.

Well it really can't get much worse that this...can it?

Hope, I actually think its going quite well! You have put great pressure on the affair and she is feeling the pinch. Of course, she is angry about that. On the other hand, you are doing a fabulous Plan A so she will have somewhere to fall when this affair does crumble.

I think contacting Steve Harley would be an excellent idea. He could assess your situation and maybe even help you draw your W into counseling.

ML, your optomistic outlook makes me feel much better about the current situation. Someone on here posted that "it will get much worse before it gets any better". Well it has gotten much worse, let's hope the better days are ahead.

I have been noticing something interesting. Everytime we have these discussions (or conflicts in her mind) she seems to be a little more approachable and open afterwards, even though she is very hurt and emotional at the time. Is that becuase she is feeling guilty or becasue of the content of discussion? I wonder if she feels better after saying some of the things on her mind and/or better about me saying what's on my mind. I also get the impression that my independent behabiviour is a LB, since sometimes she gets upset after I have done something without consulting with her.

She told my MIL that I never talk. Well it is kind of a catch 22 since when I do try to talk she replies negatively in one word answers or gets defensive when it is about the R. I would love to just sit and talk to her, but that is not going to happen anytime soon. She is just not receptive to that. Prior to d-day she would say "we don't talk anymore".

During the discussion she also said "I feel like a prisoner in my own home" and "just give me some space". I hate the second saying. So my intention now is to completely back off for a while and give her time to absord all that has happened in the last two weeks. I will Plan A to my best ability and lay off the R talk.

I will not try to pressure her.
I will not try to control her.
I will not try to justify myself or acitons.
I will not be judgemental of her choices.
As Paul McCartney said, I will "Let Her Be".

This is what the OM is doing and that is probably why he has the appeal right now.

To be honest, now that she knows exactly how I am getting my information and what I have done with it, I have nothing else to hide and I feel at ease about that. Everything is out in the open now and I don't have to conceal the truth anymore. I told her that I was extremely hurt by some of the things I heard and I felt much better after saying that.

It sounds like conversation is a big EN for her.
It's my biggie too.

She probably doesn't want YOU to talk with her, but she has a high need to talk with YOU...that's where the OM comes in...he listens.

Get a book called "The Book of Questions," or think of some harmles, yet thought provoking questions, like

"Tell me about your favorite vacation..."
"What is your favorite flavor of ice cream..."
"What is the most pain you have felt..."

Etc.\

Then practice LISTENING, no talking

Thanks SHMI, I will try that. I defenitely need to learn how to listen, although right now there is not much to listen to since her answers would be very short. I'll try to slowly talk WITH her as you so pointed out. I will try to just be her friend righ now and talk as friends to and lay off the R talk, unless she initiates of course. I need to become her friend again.

Hope,

I think this is going much better than you think. You have planted the seeds, you are nuturing them and they will sprout. You must realize your W has a lot of adjusting to do. Whatever the status of the marriage before her affair and you finding out, I am sure she felt that you respected her and felt she is a worthy person. She now must face the reality that she jumped off of the pedestal and not only do you not like it, neither does her family. It is hard to have yourself image torn apart and that happens to the BS and the WS when there is exposure. That is why they are so mad. They know it is wrong otherwise there would be no reason for secrets.

Keep up the very good work, and view this like your garden. A little watering every day, weed where you have to, and a lot of patience.

I know I shouldn't say this but I wonder what will happen when she goes back to work. I am sure she will like seeing the OM, but attached to the OM now is a lot of pain, that is why disclosure is so important. She may withdraw from you more for awhile but I am guessing if you continue to engage her, do little things for her, and yes talk to her about things OTHER than the A, she will come around.

Just till your garden Hope, you are doing very well, and NO you are not ready for plan B although I am sure it sounds sort of attractive every now and then. Also focus on the kids, enjoy them, spend more time with them, you will reap the benefits.

God Bless,

JL

Try open-ended questions...those that can't be answered with a simple 'yes', 'no', or grunt. It may take a bit for you to convince her you are REALLY interested in what she has to say.

One of the best and most precious gifts we can give someone we love is the gift of listening...really listening.

Face her, make eye contact, nod occasionally, add some uh-huh and such, ask questions if you need something clarified, repeat back what she is saying ocassionally (e.g. "What I hear you saying is you are fed up at work with your coworker, but you don't know what to do."). And the number ONE rule...do NOT give advice, unless she asks for it...and even if she asks for it, help her come up with her own answer...(e.g. "I'm not sure what to do, what has helped in the past?" or "What can I do?")

A woman works out a problem by talking it out...often that is all we need, to vent. Don't take her anger at a situation as anger towards you, or that she blames you, it is just our way of working out a solution... We're wired a little differently...we appreciate help in the form of a listening ear and someone who can agree with us, be on our side, offer support...not advice. We are social, communicable creatures. Something an OM can take advantage of, and something you can vaccinate her against...you offer enough attention, she can turn down even a Chippendale dancer...

JL, I don't mind you saying that because I have often thought of what the outcome will be myself. I heard her say to the other man "call me at my home number so it can't be traced". This is a very important comment since it reaveals she is concerned that her employer is watching and may be monitoring her interaction with OM. That's why I exposed her at work. I want her to be looking over her shoulder at work and to be weary of who may be watching or listening.

She said to me yesterday that all the actions that I have undertaken indicate to her that I want her to leave. She said if you are not happy, then leave (is this fog talk?). I replied that I don't want to leave and that I want her to leave either. What I want is to fix our marriage.

My garden has so many weeds right now that I sometimes feel like blanketing it with pesticide, but that would also kill the flowers and vegetebles. So your analogy is right, I will pluck them out of my garden one weed at a time. I will plant new seeds and ensure the have the right conditions to sprout and grow. Hopefully, when the time is right, I'll have the garden of my dreams.

SHMI, that is excellent advice, especailly coming from a women. I'm a guy and I like to fix things, so I am always trying to give advice when someone has a problem. It is hard just to lust listen, but it is something I need to learn how to do, for the sake of my marriage and family. I think Johnny Carson was the master of the open ended question, and his show ran for decades.

One of my concerns, is I don't want to talk about her work since it may trigger the OM. She really doesn't seem to have many major interests that I can talk to her about.

This is what she likes to do:

read romance novels
excercise on the treadmill
she loves shoes
she loves new clothes
she likes boy meets girl and boy gets girl movies
she likes romantic movies
She likes to go away on vacation (we haven't done that much)
she likes to be pampered
she loves her kids immensely
she likes going to dinner or to a movie

Also, there is difficulty finding the time to talk since our kids demand so much of our attention. Usually we talk a little during dinner and maybe just before bed. At work she doesn't have to contend with kids when talking to the OM. That is part of my problem.

Thanks for listening <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hope,

Still..., has offered you more profound information than you realize. While tending your garden, listen to the plants. When she makes a statement like "your disclosure means you want to leave or me to leave" ask her why she feels this way, and then listen. When she stops ask another clarifying statement and listen. Then another. You are ENGAGING her in conversation but you are NOT answering her or feeding her fury, you are showing interest.

Ever wonder why counselors do this? It is for the same reason. The people talking KNOW the answers, they just don't realize it, or won't face them, so by asking questions as was suggested you are inviting her to open up and talk. By listening you are encouraging her with your apparent acceptance (you are not angry or hurt), and gradually some of the silliness she is spouting will become obvious to her.

I am not saying be her councelor, I am saying be her friend in the sense that women mean this not us guys. Further, talk to her about her work, ask her lots of questions, and listen to them. It does not matter if it triggers OM, guess what they had in common that you did not?....WORK. It needs to be something you and your W have in common. Talk to her about it.

Next look at the list you made:
They are all the same thing, she loves the fantasy of romance and she loves the process of romance. Got any clues what her needs might be?? Just look at this list. She wants to feel needed, protected, loved, admired, and appreciated.

She may have other needs but those should keep you busy for awhile. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> It is not for me or you to say that her needs may be shallow and in fact if you meet those needs others will move to the top of the list. But, you have laid out your marching orders very well, and STill's post gives you the tools to start the march, listen to the woman, engage her in talk but asking and listening.

Ok, you set, got your chin strap tight, helmet on, got your marching orders? Time for the REAL plan A now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

God Bless,

JL

SHMI & JL,

Thanks very much for the support and insight it has defenitely helped me see things a little clearer and given me some much needed approaches to dealing with WW.

So in summary, LISTEN and take interest in what WW has to say by asking open ended questions, especially during some of her relationship statements. Don NOT give advice, just listen by giving eye contact and and repeat what she says once in a while. Engage her in conversation and fill her EN by making her feel protective, needed, loved, appreciated and admired. During conversation with WW, reply using "why do you feel that way" and listen then ask for clarification on something else and listen again.

Now I just have to put this into action. I will look for an opening in her wall and give it a shot.

Thanks very much.