Owl and mflake it sounds like you both are in a great situation right now, especially considering you were both overlooking the abyss not to long ago. I envy and am happy for you both and hope that some day I can reach that stage also.

I told my WW a few weeks ago that we could hve a great marriage, but obviously given how she is feeling she didn't think that was possible.

I really think this could be going much easier if there was NC with OM, but I'm working on that and hopefully my WW will get a transfer in the near future. Given that SH told me to focus on my WW on not OM that is what I will do. He seems to think I can nip this in the bud by just eliminating LB and gradually meeting her EN. I know this becuase it seemed she was coming back to me before she returned to work. After she returned we haven't been intimate since.

I keep looking at the picture of my wife on my desk and feel hopeless that I can't give her all the affection that I feel for her right now. She is so lovely.

Please do not take offense... but this is very difficult for me to read. Only because I would love to have had or have my h respond this way. your WW's are very, very lucky that you are and have dealt with this in the manner that you have. You are actually taking an interest in working on this.

I can tell you right now...your wives are very, very lucky. I mean do you realize that you hold all the power to turn this around? I hope your WW's see how great they have it. You are on this board so obviously you don't take what your wives did lightly...you are working at it.I am sure it has been painful.
Ok... ok... I am a little depressed now. My h responded the first 2 weeks following dday and well...that was it...then back to pre Affair indifference tward me...the norm.....that is why I am trying so, so hard right now to do everything I can.
Good Luck to you...don't smother her in fear right now ...but after a few weeks don't act like it didn't happen and go back to old ways. whatever that may be. I think you guys are smart and your WW's are lucky.

FWW-me 38
BS-47
dd-3/dd-10
dday 4-29-05
no contact since 08-09-05
Brandi (brand new me)

brandi, I don't take offence to what you are saying, infact I can understand your sadness. You see my WW wife seems to becoming more distant lately. Last night I asked her if she wanted to go out tonight and she said "NO". That hurt me and I am quite depressed today. My Taker is really trying hard to come to the surface and I really feel like giving up. I don't know hom much more of this I can take. I love my wife so much, but she doesn't really care right now.

I don't know what else to do. She won't talk to me besides the day to day stuff and although I'm trying to be strong and upbeat this is taking a toll on me. Last night was a real low point for me.

So don't feel bad brandi, you see we are all going and have gone through this. I am trying not to smother her in fear right now but I need to let her know that she can't continue to this to me. I need to let her know that her continued contact with OM is hurting me and our marriage.

Thanks for your kind words, but I don't think my WW thinks she is lucky.

This really sucks right now....

brandi, I have had a chance to settle down since my afternoon post and wanted to reply to you with a some level headedness. It is interesting hearing from you since you are a FWW and that is what my wife is. I'm really sorry that your BH hasn't responded the way you would have liked him to. Remember this may be extremeley difficult for him to deal with. I wish my WW was as interested in fixing our marriage as you are with your WH.

Don't give up hope. We all have bad days and today was a very bad day for me, but that doesn't mean I am giving up. sometimes we just need to vent a little. If we don't we are liable to vent on our WS. I don't know your full situation, but maybe your BH is indefferent because he is having trouble coping with your betrayal.


My WW does not feel she is lucky right now. In fact she feels like she is trapped and smothered. I'm sure would rather be with OM right now to continue her fantasy EA. I wish she could see it the way you describe it, but unfortunately she doesn't. I am becoming a little frustrated with her attitue and my Taker is more that ready to take control. It is very hard to keep him repressed. So I take my frustration out on this board and when she is not around. You are right that I am trying so hard to make my M something better that it has ever been. The problem is my WW doesn't think that can happen. What do you mean by "us holding all the power". It sure doesn't feel that way. In fact I feel powerless about the whole situation. My WW doesn't really want to talk to me besides the usuall small talk and she is sidtant from me. I feel like I'm unwanted and it hurts me to the core. I don't know what is pushing me to continue since her coldness would have fronzen most loving feelings anyone could have for their wife. I guess it is because I love her so very much and see the potential in our marriage. Unfortunately she doesn't see it right now.


What do you mean by not "smothering her in fear right now". Do you mean I shouldn't bring up R talk. Since you are a WW I would be really interested in your insight. It is a fine line between being normal and trying to solve the problem. I'm so sorry to hear about your situation, but don't give up on it just yet. Why did you choose to have an affair on your husband? What EN was he not meeting?

Keep up the NC, even though you don't see your BH responding right now.

FWW-me 38
BS-47
dd-3/dd-10
dday 4-29-05
no contact since 08-09-05
Brandi (brand new me) [/quote]

Well so far today seems to be a better day than the past 24 hours. My WW just went out with my kids and her sister to buy a gift for one of her friends at work. I really like this friend of hers (in a plutonic way) and hope she keeps her relationship with her. I would much rather my WW make this ber best girlfriend than her other work girlfriend who was trying to convince my WW to seperate and pursue the OM.

My WW went out to lunch with the good girlfriend about a week ago and told her about our situation. This was the evening when she said "you ruined my life" and "my friends are embarrased to come over now". Well I hope that feeling will eventually wear off since I really would like my WW to maintain this friendship. I always thought highly of her from the first day I met her and conversely I've alwasys been suspicious of the other girlfriend.

I think I'm doing a better job of dealing with my WW than I used to. Even though she may get upset with me over certain things now, I don't withdraw from her and become passive aggressive by trying to hurt her indirectly. Now I try to correct the problem and continue to keep the lines of communication open. I find it is working much better.

So this is defenitely turning out to be a roller coaster ride that can change by the minute. I feel like I'm doing a good job of elimiinating any LB'ers although I don manage to LB once and a while. The ones I have defenitely squashed are AO, SD and DJ. I used to a lot of DJ prior to my Plan A and find eliminating them completely is a little more difficult. I now regret doing these DJ and have discovered that they can be extremely hurtful. I have tried to reverse them into respectful comments now, but it is going to take time to make LB$ deposits.

I have alos tried to reduce the LB'ers of IB, dishonesty and AH. Independent Behaviour (IB) and dishonesty is fairly easy to overcome, but Annoying Habits (AH) is a little trickier since I don't know what my AH are to my wife. I did LB yesterday with IB by agreeing to have my uncle come over without checking with my wife first. She got upset and right away I knew it was a Lb'er.

I am trying to get in the habit of asking my wife's opinion before making any of these types of decisions, but I occasionally forget.

So that is my story for today. It is a better day than yesterday, where I felt really down and upset. Let's see what tomorrow brings...

I need some advice for all of you. I haven't brought up the R in over a week now and don't like how things have just settled into a limbo stage. My WW doens't really talk with me or show me any affection. I have pulled back on my affection of her (no hugs, kisses, ILY, etc) mainly because I was coming on too strong and it was making her feel smothered. I want to start showing her all the affection I have but I don't know how to proceed. SOme of you mentioned non-sexual contact with her, but I really need to break through and I only think that can happen through talking.

The problem is I don't know what to say to her to start this process. I can tell she is still distant and somewhat cold to me so how do I start to chip away at this defense shield she has put up. What are some things I can do or tell her. I am a little gun shy after she rejected my offer to go out on Saturday night. I don't want to continue in this stage for too long so she gets the feeling that look it's never going to change so what is the use.

Should I just continue with Plan A and give her some more time to reconnect wiht me. Last night we were talking about the kids preschool arrnagements when she felt her mother and me were controlling their after school arrangements. She said "their my kids and you guys are trying to control where they go...this is your all your fault". Well it seems everything is all my fault and last I checked they were my kids also. Comments like that from her really upset me and it is difficult not to reply accordingly.

When will she take some responsibility for the things that have happened. I have already expressed my regret to her that I did not meet her EN and would like to do whatever it takes to fix things, but she can't accept that it seems.

I am getting tired of her leaving for work and saying "see ya" without even looking at me. Or she when she comes home from work I barely get an acknowledgement from her. She gives me no oppourtunity to give her a hug.

So any ideas on how I can start the ball rolling would be helpful.

Thanks

Argghh..just erased all I wrote! Damn!

Brandi-
You have some guts as a FWW to come out in the open and share your experience with us. I can respect you for that. Remember you've only been NC for a month and it sounds like you guys had other marital issues to work on beforehand. Give it time and keep being a great wife to give you your best chance for success. My wife has/is working very hard to win me back (even though she never lost me). And thanks for all the nice things you have to say about Hope, Owl, and me. We do sound like decent guys, don't we?

HopeThisWorks-

I'm starting to look forward to hearing about your weekend on Mondays. My wife and I talked about your situation Saturday night during an R talk I initiated because I was having a hard time. (I keep kicking myself for letting her go meet OM one day- I knew they were making a "date" right in front of me!) Anyway...she says she can't really remember what she was thinking, specifically, during her A. I believe her because her behavior was very uncharacteristic and I now believe depression related (meds actually worked). She does agree that until NC, things will be hard.

Your wife's new friend sounds promising. Make sure you make a great impression on her- she's very likely to get out the "2 X 4" and whack your wife with it. My wife's friends were very supportive of me/ us. In fact, our families, both of which have seen their share of divorces, really value us as a couple and have been very helpful to us just by being nonjudgemental and listening. We're kind of looked at as a model-type family (something my W took great pride in before her A and does again now) by family and friends. Get all the support you can.

You've got to get NC soon, just hang in there until you get it and you'll see a difference relatively soon (weeks). Also, remeber that your wife will have to admit she is wrong before she can make amends with you. Is that hard for her to do?

mflake, NC is going to be hard for my wife to do. Unless she gets the transfer she requested (which will be difficult) or she quits her job, NC is a pipe dream right now. She won't quit so I don't know what else to do. The one positive is she only see OM once a week.

It's really sad becasue I could see her comimg back to me when she was off work for three weeks and then as soon as she returned she became distant and colder again. I wish she could see it too.

By the way this is not a new friend and I have met her several times. I believe I have put in a good impression, but I fear my wife might have given her one side of the story. You know the part about how terrible I have been throughout the marriage and how I unfairly exposed to her family and work. I'm sure she made me look like a real crack.

But she has a great head on her shoulders and I respect her alot. My wife bought her a a small gift and card that she wrote "Thanks for sticking by mean when I needed it" and will be giving it to her today.

I really believe NC is the only way to get to recovery but right now all I can do is Plan A and hope her transfer happens. It would be nice if OM was fired or left the country but that is a pipe dream.

It sounds like you and your wife have developed a great realtionship after these tough times and it gives me hope for my R as well. I must make sure I don't mess up with Plan A since I don't want to give my WW more ammunition to talk to OM or her girlfriend. If she has nothing negative to say about me then what else to they have to talk about. Maybe they can talk about how much of a changed person I am or how wonderful I have become <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Ya right!

I don't think my WW will ever admit what she did was wrong. She already said she felt there was nothing inappropriate about her conduct and they are only very good friends. I wonder if that is fog talk. Funny that she doesn't want to listen to the tape of the phone conversation where she sounds ga ga for OM. Maybe she is affraid of the truth or just trying to repress it.

I think she is also upset that I still have the tape since she is constantly asking me I still have it. I don't want to get rid of it because I need it to deal my my hurt. Everytime I listne to it I feel betrayed and hurt and until I can deal with that better I need to keep it. I'm afraid if I don't my memory will convince me I was srong about everything. My wife is a fantastic lady, but she rarely admits being wrong so I don't know if she ever will.

I love her terribly and want our M to be better than it ever was, but that is not evident right now. Did you FWW notice the changes in you while she was in the A and did it have an effect on her?

I dream of the day where my WW asks me about my day or takes an interest in me again.

My wife noticed nothing of my improved Plan A behavior while she was in her A. I will say I've never been inattentive or neglectful of household/kid duties either, so me turning it up a notch wasn't much of a difference.

maybe she was too busy in the A to nitice flake..mine has noticed but is too busy living with OM, although it isn't the fantasy land they thought it would be.

Brandi-thanks for your inisght on this. too bad you aren't like my WW. I would take her back tomorrow(shes been living with OM 3 weeks) but I supose time and patience. Hang in there with your H, were their issues prior to A that may have not been resolved?

Big-

I'm so sorry you're having to struggle like that. I don't know if I could do it and I'm very thankful my M didn't come to that.

Yep, she was too busy all right. But when she did snap out of it I looked much better. I also developed better habits:

I'm a better dad.
I'm a better housekeeper.
I'm a better husband.
I'm a better friend.
I'm in great shape.
I beat a 20-year nicotine addiction-5 months free!
My wife has no doubt about how much I love her.

Best of all...all improvements have carried over into recovery and I'm even more zealous about them now!

Boy I've got other issues going on that are making all this that much more difficult. My WW is in a foul mood today for other reasons.

My DS was very emotional going to daycare this moring and my dad who accompanied us saw this. When my WW called my dad to see how things went, my dad said that he wants to watch my kids now since the daycare is not for my son, blah, blah blah... Well my WW calls me and starts saying my kids are going to school and not to your parents house. I don't want them telling me what to do...blah, blah, blah...SO I call my dad and tell him to lay off and let us take care of the day care. One problem extingushed for now.

Then my neighbor calls me and tells me that he heard something from my DS that disturbed him. It seems my son told his son (in ear shot of his wife) that he (his son) is bad and if he is bad he can't come over to our house or vise versa. This boy is very aggressive and has a tendency to be mean to my DD and even my DS sometimes. My wife and I don't like this and feel that my neighbors don't do enough to stop this. We may have said to our kids that he does bad things or is bad on occasion and told my DS that if it continues he can't go over. Now my neighbors are upset and when I called my WW about it she seemed to care less.

When I informed her that this is our son's best friend and we live next door to these people so it would be best if we could be on good terms, she finally agreed to have them over to talk about it. She finally said in a sour tone "ok invite them over for coffee tonight but make sure it's early since they have school tomorrow". How I wish she could talk to me in a nice tone of voice instead of this angry tone. That is a huge LB to me!

My WW seems to get along with people who agree with her, thus OM and her wretched girlfriend. Heaven forbid if they are upset with her, then the whole world stops until she can apologize. But if someone who loves her is upset or thinks she is wrong, she doesn't care less. That is what I'm dealing with right now. Sometimes I feel like screaming and yelling at her, but I know that would kill whatever progress I have made.

Another crappy day and fun evening to look forward to. This is my life right now, putting out fires and dealing with a cold and distant WW who for some unknown reason I love so very much. Life can be brutally unfair at times.

You have got to get NC my man. As long as fantasy land is accessible real life will be put on the backburner.

Get your wife to go to a local, face to face MC if you can. You might have to drop the hammer on her head and "get real" with her. Ask her how she's going to explain to the kids why she wants to run off with another man who's not daddy. Does she want her daughter to run out on her husband? I think you can selectively use tough talk as long as it's calm and you go right back into plan A.

****** what do I know...

mflake, I will raise the issue of MC later this week unless tonight she transforms into a loving WW. Is the MC helping your situation?

Tough talk, I haven't done much since just after exposure. I wanted the dust to settle a little. But now since things seemed to have stalled I may tighten the screws a little, in a nice and loving way of course.

I really enjoy your support and input....thanks so much!

What are you thinking of doing to turn up the screws? I'm in a similar place and have been lurking. Hope you don't mind if I watch and learn.

I exposed to OMW, who said OM got so disgusted with WW that he would impose NC from his side. Who knows if that's really happened? If WW is in NC, there's no sign her heart is in it yet. So - like you - I'm adding love units and waiting for her to come around.

WNH, I'm sorry to hear you are dealing with this also. I am currently in Plan A as you know and will keep it up as long as I can handle it. If I find she is not breaking out of this constant withdrawl I will start put pressure on OM by unleashing my two BIL's. They would like to have a talk with OM and ask what his intentions are, but I have told them to hold off for now to see if my WW is able to come out of this funk.

Everything has already been exposed and she has indicated they are "just friends" so any further discovery to the contrary will kill her defense. I'm watching her, her family is watching her, her work is watching her so she is under the microscpe. Obviously I can't force her to end the EA but I can start to creat a crisis for her every time she breaks my boundaries. Kind of like tightening the dog collar when your dog is not responding to you.

I learned this from mortorman since he was an expert at creating a crisis for his WW whenever she exceeded his boundaries (i.e. was in contact with OM).

Keep up you Plan A and eliminate all LB'ers. Then slowly try to meet you WW most important EN. That will be hard since she won't be in a position to receive them.

Familiarize yourself with the great information provided by bOb-pure* in the link below. He did an incredible job of turning a near hopeless situation into a wonderful recovery. I have gained tremendous insight from his posts. His d-day was almost exactly 1-year before mine and it is funny how his emotional timeline is similar to mine. His FWW is a truly lucky woman to have a husband as dedicated as he is.

If OM has agreed to NC then the A may be dying a slow death already. Don't try to kill the A, it may already be on its death bed. Try to focus on your WW and if she is in withdrawl prepare to be there for her when she come out of it. You need to be her soulmate.

Listen to Pepperband since she knows what she is talking about. Her advice is priceless.

Try not to smother your WW right now, but be there for her.

Bob's Newly Betrayed Spouse MB Toolkit

Well last night went as most of the nights have gone recently. Nothing unusual happened and we talked about some non-R issues at dinner time. Then we went out with the kids for icecream. Later I got the kids ready for bed and read them a story. Today was my DD first day of school and she was excited about it.

Meanwhile, my WW made lunches for the kids (and me too) and them came to be to read one of her novels. During the night I tried to rest my hand on her back while she was sleeping but she pulled away. I'm getting used to this rejection from her so I don't take it as hard anymore. I hope one day she will be able to accept my affection.

Tonight I plan to place a small teady bear on her pillow with a note that reads "something for you to hug and cuddle with until you want to hug and cuddle with me". I got the idea from one of b0b-pure*'s posts (I hope he doesn't mind) and thought it was a great way to let my WW know that I want to be affectionate to her. Steve Harley told me that I should let her know that I'm willing to meet her EN even though she won't let me. He said I have to chip away at her wall slowly. Hopefully this will knock a small hole in it.

I don't know how she will react, but I sense there may be mixed feelings from her. She maybe slightly happy at the thought, but feel guilty or upset that she can't reciprocate the feelings. I'll let you know how it goes.

I wish I knew what she is thinking or feeling right now. She is obviously built up a wall around her that is there to keep me at a safe emotional distance.

Might just leave the note off...or simply have it say something sweet and meaningless.

She's likely to take it as an attack if there is any HINT at what she's not doing now. My wife was EXTREMELY defensive about stuff like that...you might face the same kind of stuff.

Owl, I think you are right that she will take it as an ATTACK. I think subconsciously I realized this but I felt that I needed to let her know that I am not getting my EN met right now. Maybe it was my TAKER trying to make a point to my WW in an indirect way? You might even look at it as a quasi Selfish Demand in that it is something that I wanted but didn't come right out and demand it or ask for it.

What do you thing of the following notes. Keep in mind it is a suffed puppy:

"thought you might be having a RUFF time, Love myname"
"I heard you are having a RUFF time, Love, myname"
"I'm here for you during this RUFF time, Love mynae"

I kind of like the last one, but if you have any suggestions, please feel free to add them.