Go to MC by yourself if you must. If nothing else, she will be wondering what the heck you are saying to the MC. This fact alone may get her to go along. Plus, she will know that you do take the relationship seriously enough to actively seek out help.

You can be affectionate without being overwhelming. Smile when you see her. Look into her eyes when you talk to her. If you go to the kitchen to get a drink ask her if she would like something. When you go to the store get something that you know that she likes. Don't make a big deal of it, just do it. No mushy stuff or ILY’s she doesn’t want to hear that right now. She probably wants to see that you care for her . . . again she is looking for continuous action not words.

It took a long time for you two to get so far apart, it will take time before you become close again.

You know, it is really hard to be continually nasty to someone when they treat you with kindness and respect, when they seem to be in a good mood, when the smile and are playful, when they notice the small things that happen in life. I know you are trying, but you are impatient. Baby steps . . .

I love myself with the improvements I've made. I feel much more happy, content, accepting, patient, loving, honest, real, open, in touch with my feelings, more understanding, slower to judge, less critical, less angry, less frustrated, the list could go on and on.

I really see so much potential in my M if only my wife could see this too.

You'll be her hero soon, and that will feel so good!

I have made the decision to do this. If she comes, great and if not she will see I'm serioius.


I've been doing much of this and continue to do so. What I find sometimes is even though I feel like I'm doing much more than I used to, she may still point out the one thing I missed or she faults me when I really should not have been.

For example, the other day I was supposed to pick up my kids from pre-school, but my wife called and said she wanted to. I said fine, but remember to be there before 6pm. Well, I leave from work at 5pm and it takes me about 45 minutes to 1 hour to get home. I arrive home at 5:55 and start getting dinner ready. At about 6:15 I notice the answering machine flashing so I check the messages. Two messages from my wife at 5:35 and 5:45. She is stuck in traffic and leaving me a message to call her and pick up the kids.

Well she get home at 6:20 with the kids and asks me if I checked the messages. I told her that I just did and asked her if the kids were ok. Well doesn't she give me this look like everything was my fault. Like I should have been home at 5:45 and checked the messages as soon as I got in.

Anyways, I will keep trying and hopefully she will start to notice.


I have become more patient, but still need improvement here. I guess I'm alwasy looking for noticeable changes. You are right it will take time. Thanks CN for you insightful and helpful posts.

HTW,

I've been lurking for over a month here reading the boards. Your story here really hit home with me. I have read every single word of your thread here. I read about you going through this with a twisted since of brotherhood. What you wrote about your self improvement is exactly how I feel now about myself. I feel like all this made me grow up at the speed of light. You know, every once in a while I force myself to put on my selfish thinking cap and look at my situation to put everything in a perspective that is about me. I have to be able to find the good in all of this to feel like I'm going to be ok. None of the feelings that you described came to me until I was utterly devoid of energy. Simply put, I was too worn out to dwell on the bad parts any longer and it just happened like a light bulb going off in my head. It was unexpected. One thing I would like to point out to you is that a lot of times the determination of the WS is the inverse of the wrong they have committed. I hope you consider the possibility that your WW may have actually had a PA also to be real. After a while in dealing with my situation I made a decision to accept the "worst case scenario" with the information that I had been given. I don't want to see you get hurt more by coming to terms with the WW EA, then find out it was also PA and have to start all over again from scratch.

My WW's recall of our M, is like your WW's. Heck, it seems like everyone’s WW is reading their recollection of memories off of the same cue cards. They take the good, flush it down the toilet and then focus on the bad. If they don’t, then they won’t be ok with themselves for doing something so wrong. It’s all part of the master plan in helping them to remember those good things that happened that are part of who they are.

I think you are doing great work over there and I wish you the best in your situation. Don’t lose focus of the “good things” that you have found about yourself in dealing with all this! It will be your source of strength for the future no matter what happens.

And man you gotta eat!

Best of luck.
Plank.

Plank...exactly!

"For example, the other day I was supposed to pick up my kids from pre-school, but my wife called and said she wanted to. I said fine, but remember to be there before 6pm. Well, I leave from work at 5pm and it takes me about 45 minutes to 1 hour to get home. I arrive home at 5:55 and start getting dinner ready. At about 6:15 I notice the answering machine flashing so I check the messages. Two messages from my wife at 5:35 and 5:45. She is stuck in traffic and leaving me a message to call her and pick up the kids.

Well she get home at 6:20 with the kids and asks me if I checked the messages. I told her that I just did and asked her if the kids were ok. Well doesn't she give me this look like everything was my fault. Like I should have been home at 5:45 and checked the messages as soon as I got in."

This sounds like my wife.

I think that she was just angry about being late to get the kids and you just happened to be there to be an outlet of that anger.

I know it is hard, but I think you will do yourself a huge favor if you become selectively deaf/blind when she pulls that stuff. You can't win that situation because there is nothing you could have done better. Just smile and let her know that you are sorry she is upset.

I think YOU need a break from this for a while. Go out with a male friend or two. Don't talk about your marriage, drink a few beers and watch a game at the local pub. I think you are trying to hard. This will take time and you are doing what you need to do . . . really you are.

I'm with ya bro, same problems here. Lets go get a beer and talk about it. I tried to add love units by going to a local store to pick up something WW had ordered; she was hostile and angry; 'why are you sneaking around'? Geez where did THAT come from?

Like in your case, my WW's A also seems to be a bit one-sided. I think mine went further than yours, and tried (could be she succeeded) to seduce OM. But after I exposed, OMW told me (this from OM so huge grain of salt) that OM was never that much into it and has been dragging his feet and trying to drop WW for some time. Hope that's the straight skinny.

Anyway if OM wasn't that into it, could be that we might have a somewhat easier time than you, in getting to NC. We may be there already, but I'm scared to look and don't want to ask for fear of producing strong adverse reactions in WW.

Hope you don't mind a question; Do you have a next step or series of steps in mind to try to get NC? What might they be? I'm interested in case I should have a need for another step myself.

Plank,
Thanks for the kind words. It funny how "typical" many of our situations are like. Initially I thought my situation was unique and how dare someone say that it is "textbook" or "script". Well I know different now. Yes the details are different, but the signs and process are very similar. That is why this site has been a God send.

I am eating and feeling better now and I must have put back on 10 to 15 lbs since my crash diet. The whole situation doesn't bother me as much and I am not as obsessed with it, although it may seem that way by the number of posts that I create. I'm beginning to understand that many things are out of my control, but I can defenitely control me.

If this turns out to be a PA I will be crushed and will want to die. That is all I can say about that.

I hope your situation is progressing they way you would like it, but remember it is a very, very slow process. I'm very impatient at times and want to see results, but when you look at what has happened and what needs to happen, it does require extremem patience as many have stated.

Hopefully I will be able to read up on you situation soon.

CN,
I seem to be the outlet of much of her anger lately.
I do need a break from all of this and plan to take a day off tomorrow or Friday just to focus on me and recharge my batteries. My WW doesn't know I post here and I don't want her to know (for now), but if she could only see how involved I am with this it would make her think that I am either nuts or hopelessly devoted to her.

No and that scares the heck out me. If her transfer doesn't happen I don't know what I will do. I really don't like to think of it right now, but I must admit that it frightens me. I will need some advice from the experts on this one.

For me the PA revelation was devastating at first, but then I realized it couldn't get any worse.

Good to realize your weight is coming back and you're not obsessing as much. That's a reflection of how you feel about yourself. Great!

mflake, I feeling really anxious this afternoon for some unknown reason. I just don't like the way my WW has been acting lately. So cold and distant towards me.

I keep thinking maybe she has resumed the EA. I don't know what to do anymore. This whole thing is eating me from the inside out.

It is as though she is slowly detaching from me or trying to close me off emotionally and I can't do anything about it. How can she treat me this way?

I want to bring up the issue of NC again tonight, but I don't know if that is a good idea or not.

It's funny how a BS can go from feeling good to awful in a mattter of hours. Will this insanity ever end.

I just want the truth...that's all I want right now. I hate this. If she is having EA or PA, just tell me. If she wants to seperate, just tell me. I just need the truth. I hate living in the dark!

Hey, the EA has never ended. It won't until there is NC.

Don't flip on her now, you've made some progress. You're right, it's not fair of her to treat you like she is. Funny, they treat you worse than they would their enemies.

I guess you could tell her you hate that she won't tell you anything. You could try asking her to tell you how she really feels and then NOT going crazy if she tells you painful stuff. I've told you all about the stuff my FWW told me and I'm still alive, so if you hear it you'll live too.

Tell her to think about the kids, and that you guys need to work toward some kind of resolution for their sake. That you're willing to stay the new you for your marriage and your family.

I know it's tough- I watched my wife make her f*** date with her OM. That was the most painful moment I can remember. Just remember to stay cool.

Boy it doesn't look good right now. We had a conversation during dinner and I feel really awful.

My wife is full of resentment towards me. She says I was not happy when she became pregnant with my kids and didn't do the stuff she expected of me.

She said she loved me but doesn't think things will change now. I never spent the time with my kids and that I never wanted her after the birth of our kids.

So much resentment that I don't know if I can recover from this. I am sad.

I told her this new me is permannet, but she doubts it. I told her I want to make it work, even for the kids, but she doesn't know if she wants to. She is willing to split everything even the kids.

I am so sad right now. What do I do if she asks for a seperation? When she comes home from work she takes off her wedding ring. That hurts.

She has agreed to MC but doesn't think it will do any good. I need to find a good MC in the Toronto area that will help me. I can't affort a hack.

She said that if she had a place to go after exposure that she would have left me. I don't know if I can ever recover from this.

What do I do now? If MC doesn't work I think this M is finished.

I love her so very much that I am crushed.

She doesn't love me right now and I don't know if she will ever get that back.

Sorry for this but I'm so sad...

Hope: I'm thinking she may not be very susceptible to reason right now. But still I'm wondering whether you've had a chance to ask her how she would feel if things were reversed, and you were having an EA with - who knows? - some possibility of PA? Would she not try to take steps to save the M?

In that situation we all are in the dark, and we make mistakes. She might not agree with your actions, and she might say she would have acted differently than you did. But surely she can understand that you love her so much you are willing to go out on a limb, take chances, and maybe make mistakes just to try to keep the M intact? If you'd done nothing, and continued to do nothing, that would mean you cared little, right? But you've demonstrated that's not where you are.

If you were to say something like that to her she would likely scoff or worse. But maybe somewhere deep inside it could have a small impact?

Another thought; One of the wise heads here suggested I ask "what would you say are the biggest walls between us now?" If you haven't tried that, may I suggest you do? Seems way too simple to work, but when I asked it opened up a 60-minute monologue from WW after 6 weeks of sullen silence. The good part was that it gave the conversation a focus.

Rather than being tried and convicted of unnamed crimes, I am now being tried and in danger of being convicted of a few specific things. But also I'm given a chance. Not for rebuttal, but a chance to address and change those things. So far at least, that change in the conversation has sustained the relationship.

Maybe part of it is that it took some of WW's guilt away and let her project it onto me, as if the whole A were my fault. Untrue of course. But I wonder if it's not therapeutic for WW to have such a defense mechanism. May help her to heal. Sounds like that's a big part of what's going on with your R right now.

It may not be so bad to have a few specific accusations levelled against you? If it gives her a few things to look for in you, and if you can address those few things, then you have a good chance of ultimately being exonerated. And - not by good fortune - she may come to that conclusion just about the time she's come to terms with her own guilt and is ready to talk about the truth of the A and take possession of her role in it.

FWIW. Lots of caveats. I'm not a professional, and have only limited experience in these things. Learning the hard way, like probably almost everying in MB forums.

Wishing you the best in probably one of the most difficult times you've ever faced. I think you'll get through this intact. Won't be quick or painless or nice or pretty, but you'll get through it. Hang in there brother.

T/J warning coming up.

You know what "hope", I was thinking of your situation "in a way" the other day as I was watching NFL football. The NFL football season is such a great time for me and I literally live for Sundays, and work just to pass the time between games...it brings such a profound joy to my life. I have a great HDTV set up with a sattelite dish that gets every game on all over the country. Every Sunday morning is ritual with getting the sunday papers and other print media magazines, and then getting some bagles and donuts from DD, and ofcourse some coffee to mull over the papers and previews of the games. I then start the pregame shows to really start getting revved up, and by this time, friends (and their significant others who are ALWAYS encouraged and welcomed to attend), show up with more food and the like. The day is great and has now become sunday ritual for me and friends and family.

Your situation sucks no doubt, but my friend, I think you desperatley need to find something like I have in your life. Not everyone is as nuts as me in watching and loving football and that is not something I am telling you to necessarily do, but you have to find an "outlet" for all of this $hit with the wayward. There is so much more to life than this infidelity stuff. There is so much more to life than talking about PLans, Steve Harley, PLan B, Love BUsters, and withdrawal........I know Steve doesn't like when you try and have hobbies that are not intuned with or jointly agreeed enthusiastically with your spouse, but come on bro.........SANP OUT OF THIS.

Save your marriage if you choose, but live a little along the way. Your Wayward will probably come back when she is done doing her $hit.....you have been more than willing to say you will take her back when that is done, so why not in the mean time...GET A LIFE....find something that can inspire you and help you out of your clear depression. Your right....it is sad.

I am roothing for you here, so JUST DO IT !!!! Live your life now to the FULLEST. Be the best dad to your children, the best employee at work, organize your financial goals, go buy the book "The Success Principles:-:How to Get from Where you Are to Where You Want to Be" by Jack Canfield.....it should be required reading for all BS....and you know why, becasue it will be at least one book that you will have that doesn't have the affair as being your whole focus. This was my PERSONAL RECOVERY GUIDE.

OK, I think that was enough said in my ambien induced delerium here..........

Out...to bed hopefuly



Lem

HTW-

Man that really sucks. I'm thinking of you frequently these days. I just hate all the pain around here it's pissing me off badly.

I'm telling you she's foggy as heck. The EA is in full bloom still, she has more to tell you and is trying to drive you away. My wife did the same crap but it didn't last as long because everyone dropped the hammer on her quickly and we got NC right away.

For your wife:

Look, if nothing else she made a promise to you when you got married. If she's been letting all this resentment build up until now it's partly her fault. Her EA IS all her fault. She owes you and the kids a shot at saving your marriage. No guarantees...just an honest attempt without an OM hanging around. There's time for that stuff later (from her perspective) if you can't work it out.

I'll remind you my wife had convinced herself she was only staying with me for the kids until her brain came back.

I'm crying for your little ones, the same ages as mine, their whole world about to be torn up. She owes them a chance at their mom and dad being together. She's willing to "split the kids?" Who the f*** does she think she is, King Solomon?

Being in love with your spouse after the lust period is a choice. Not very romantic sounding but it is. Do you want to be in love or not? If you do, it's pretty easy. You forgive past transgressions, you communicate your problems, you try your best to fufill your spouse's needs even if you don't feel like it.

My wife thanks me for believing in her and for "picking her up when she falls." You know, I can't promise I won't need her to pick me up from any sort of fall I might take in life...so I try to understand.

Print some stuff from this forum for your wife to read. She may not understand it but there's the off chance something will register with her. Didn't you both make promises? Aren't they worth fighting to keep?

I will lose sleep over you guys, and I won't be able to see your updates until tomorrow night. Keep up the hope.

Well I'm up early this morning as my DD is not feeling well. My WW has left for work without a bye, just a remark for me at what time to get my DS up for school.

Lemonman, I hear what you are saying, but I am having a tough time focusing on anything else right now. You know how it is. I'm sure I will get to the point where I can focus on myself and do things for myself, but I'm not there yet. It will come though.

Why doesn't my WW see all the times that I come home from work early when our kids are sick, take them to the doctor or stay home for them like today. I had to remind her to schedule my DS 5 year check-up or who knows when she would get to it.

When my kids have a high fever at night, she doesn't seem concerned and will sleep. I can't sleep when my DS or DD has a fever of 104. I'm constatnly cooling them down and checking on them, while sometimes she just sleeps. How can she say I don't spend time with them when she comes home 1 hour after me and she only has 2 hours to spend with them. And during that time she might be sitting down on the couch or working out. Hey I'm starting to sound like my WW when she re-writes our history. I better stop.

Sorry but I just need to vent for a while. She seems to be shutting herself down to me, really withdrawing herself from me. I really feel like shutting it down on my end to. It seems pointless to even try right now since none of my actions towards her is working. It's just like Dr. Harley talked about pouring water into a tank with a hole in it...it just comes out the hole without filling up. That sums it up for me right now.

I want to start snooping again, but almost feel like what is the point. I'm afraid of what I may find. She has so little care for me right now it makes me sick. I feel like a piece of the furniture sometimes. Why can't she see the good in me, all of the good times we had, instead of focusing on the crap stuff.

I didn't get a very good night sleep since at about 1:30 I roller over closer to my WW (by accident) and she asked me to move back to my side. Her lack of love and care for me is so obvious right now.

mflake, yes she actually said we can "split the time with the kids". My DD and especailly DS would be devistated it that were to happen. He looks up to me like an icon. I could not bear to tell him mommy and daddy will be living seperately because mommy doesn't love daddy anymore. Can you imagine what that would do to him. Mommy doesn't love daddy anymore...maybe she won't love me either some day!

I cannot deny that she loves our kids immensely, but what is she thinking. She puts her work ahead of her family and for that I resent her.

It seems the more love she looses for me that it goes to the kids. Does that sound strange?

I feel like I'm being treated like trash by her and I am starting to hate her for it.

mflake, my wife thinks this whole MB stuff is a joke. She thinks love is unconditional and the idea of a Love Bank, LB'ers or EN is silly. She would defenitely not read this stuff here. She even said she felt worse after talking to Steve Harley.

I hope I can find a MC who can pull down the wall she has built up. It's not going to be easy.

I did ask her if the roles were reversed would she have a problem with it. She said NO. She also said her conduct is not inappropriate.

I really don't think she see it that way. Instead I think she sees it as I loved him once, things changed, I tried to fix things, I tried accepting him that way, finally I am giving up. She is in the Withdrawl State of a Marriage right now and has lost the will to fight.

That sounds like a good technique. I will try that.

wnh, I feel your pain. I just spoke to a MC who called this revisionist history. I am not disputing my neglect, just the amount and severity.

I'm not sure why they start to see things differently with the OM in the picture. Yes they could be unloading some of their guit or just trying so set up a smokescreen. Maybe some of the vets could enlighten us here.

Without question this is the most difficult time in my life and I wish it never happened. But it here just like every new day and it must be dealt with. I hope it makes me stronger.

It's strange, but I somehow feel the same way I did prior to D-Day. My wife is also acting very similar to how she was then. Could D-day 2 be near?

Funny thing is I would welcome it just to get this whole thing out in the open once and for all.