How long is the trip? Can be fun for a night or two, but eventually it gets boring, and one thinks fondly of home.

She returns Thursday night and I want to do something for her when she returns (i.e. some crafts from the kids saying "welcome back" or something of that nature).

I hope she misses me even a little, but I'm not crossing my fingers on that one. She brought some pictures of the kids with her on the trip, but none of me.

I can't believe the crap BS have to put up with. This is defenitely thickening my skin.

I still love her very much though.

I wish I had a good suggestion. Given enough time she should forget her hurts and warm up to you a bit. Giving her a chance to vent will help too. I know that's pretty passive, and you're looking instead for more active ideas.

Hmm.. Yr welcome home card and teddy bear idea sounds terrific. Also maybe some way to give her a catch-up break? Take an additional domestic responsibility off her agenda after she returns? Rent a chick flick for her and give her a chance to just chill out and watch it by herself while you occupy the kids with something else nearby so you don't have to leave her by herself? Or maybe a movie she and the kids would like? Sounds like she may not be in that mode right now.

These may be too heavy-handed: did she drive her car to the airport? Maybe a welcome home note from the kids in her car if you can find her car in the parking? Or if she took a taxi, maybe order a limo to meet her and bring her home? Probably too heavy handed, and not cheap either.

Need advice....

As you know my W is away on business and as I was reading a bedtime story to my kids in my bed they fell asleep so I decided to let them sleep with me for the night.

At about 3:00am I woke up and saw my kids sleeping peacefully beside me and for some reason I started crying like a baby. I haven't cried like that for a long time, in fact I didn't cry like that even after d-day.

I think all of the pent of frustrations, anger and sadness came out at the same time. I felt better afterwards, but also felt like my LB for my W had taken a hit. I'm starting to resent some of the things she has been doing including: treating me like I'm a piece of furniture sometimes, making her work more important than her family, her constat anger at everyone else other than her work friends, etc.

I truly am starting to feel like a doormat and it doesn't feel good at all. I am so tempted to give an ultimatum, but know that will make things worse.

Both families are very upset with my W actions of late. She is disrepectful and easily gets angry at her family members. I don't recognize the woman I married sometimes. She was always very organized and respectful, but lately has let things slide. She used to be very practical and now sefishly spends money on personal items. Before she wanted a minivan for the family, now she wants a sexy sedan.

I can't continue to live like this for much longer since it is really taking a toll on me. She is still very devoted to her kids, but has cast aside everyone else that loves her. When her sister calls, she is sometimes mean and rude to her and her sister has a heart of gold.

I feel like a have to start speaking up but I don't want to push her away. I would really like some adivce on this please.

Sorry you're having a rough time Hope. Seems like some days are particularly difficult with lots of internal turmoil. Maybe it could help to think a year ahead and visualize how it will feel once you're past this ordeal? Sometimes that works for me.. Is there less going on externally with your W traveling this week?

I actually feel better today so I guess it is all part of the rollercoast ride.

With my W gone this week, it has given me a chance to relax a little and spend some real quality time with my kids. I used to find that I had to always rush to get things done, but this week I have been able to slow it down a little. I feel much better when I don't feel rushed.

I do think of the future sometimes and don't know what it will look like. Will it consist of a renewed happy marriage with my W, or will it see us seperated?

Like your babe, I think my W needs some time to get over some of the things that have happened between us lately and to realize that my changes are permanent. If this happens, then I feel we have a good chance of making it work. She is not good at letting things go so I don't know how this will play out.

All I can do right now is impliment a strong Plan A and hope to start seeing some baby steps. She needs to start feeling safe around me so I have been trying to provide a safe and calm home for her.

No R-talk, no ILY, no persuing her, no pressure from me, just a loving, supportive attmosphere. She hasn't really responded yet to what I'm doing, but I hope the seeds I have been planting start to germinate in the near future. I really don't think there is too much she can complain about me lately so I'm hoping her conversations with her friends about me start to take on a more positive theme. If that happens, if she starts to look at me in a more positive light, things should start to improve.

The way I'm looking at it now is the old R is dying or dead and that has to occur for any new R to begin. My wife is in an antagonistic stage right now and I don't know how long that will last. This stage needs to end before we can begin to build a new R. Right now I am trying to lay the foundation to that new R by being there for her and implimenting a strong Plan A.

My kids were already asleep last night when my W called and she said "I miss them so much". I really hope that this time away from the kids alters her thinking in reagrds to the seperation by forcing her to realize she would be without the kids often if seperated. If that occurs it will buy me some time to continue my Plan A.

A couple of weekends ago she was talking about a seperate bank account, bringing home real estate magazines (thinking about selling our house I guess), and not wearing her wedding ring after work or on that weekend. I haven't heard of seperate bank accounts since, I haven't seen any more real estate magazines and she is wearing her wedding ring 24 hours a day now. Baby steps...maybe but I would love to see some additional positive signs.

Wow I think that's a really good summary for us too. It's a bit frustrating, I want to do more - you too I think - but there's a limit on what I can do, W has to do her part when she's ready. So there's some waiting and stewing involved..

[quote
It's a bit frustrating, I want to do more - you too I think - but there's a limit on what I can do, W has to do her part when she's ready. So there's some waiting and stewing involved.. [/quote]

I know exactly how you feel on this. My initial response was to try and force the issue by overcompensating and looking for immediate results. That doesn't work, if fact it just made my W feel annoyed and smothered.

When the vets say it too a long time to get to this situation so it will take a long time to get back is true. Success will be measured in months not weeks and that is why patience is the most critical part of the whole process.

Yes there will be plenty of waiting and stewing involved, but during that time make yourself better and do things for yourself. I'm starting to get to the point where I think I cna do that now instead of always focusing on the state of our R. By doing this it will also have the added benefit of giving you W some time to herself and show her that you have a life of your own.

I think you are absolutely right when you say "W has to do her part when she is ready". Our W are not ready and may not be ready for a while yet. So until that time we need to be in complete GIVER mode and do the little things that don't put pressure on them but make them feel appreciated, loved, cared for, admired, etc.

We need to look for the little things that indicate we are having some success. Your W hasn't brought up the D work in a while so I would suggest that you are being successful. If you want your M to succeed NEVER, NEVER, NEVER give up hope.

My W comes home tonight after her 4 day business trip and I'm a little nervous since I think it might be a bit awkward at first. It was right after I came home from a business trip in early June when she told me she "feels funny" around me.

A couple of weeks ago when I had made plans for MC, she told me that she wanted to attend MC after we seperated. This makes me believe that she is intent on seperating. How should I handle this if she brings it up?

Also, my W hasn't called since yesterday morning and as I was on my knees praying for strength, patience, and to be able to control the things I have control over and not those that I do not.

As I was making the sign of the cross to end my prayer, the phone rang...it was my W. That kind of freaked me out a bit. She seemed only interested in the kids, but the timing was spooky.

She'll probably feel awkward too; would it work to comment on the awkwardness? Or just be cool..
Wishing u the best.

How did it go last night when W returned?

wnh, First let me start by saying that I feel for your situation right now. Hopefully that cash cheque was for something other than a lawyer. I know it is hard but try not to get to down on the situation.

My W returned last night at around 9:30pm and was in pretty much the same mood as when she left. She didn't seem angry but she wasn't very pleasant either. She was very happy and excited to see the kids however. She is constantly talking to the kids about doing things that don't include me and that makes me feel hurt.

She bought herself some boots and clothes and some toys for the kids, but I didn't get anything. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I knew it was a long shot but it would have been nice to know she was thinking of me even a little.

We all sat down together and played for a while. I made some small talk and she did to for a while. So it wasn't really awkward, just more of the same really. I am so much wanting to see some baby steps from her, but nothing as of yet.

Then she said she wanted to have the kids sleep with her since she missed them so I ended up sleeping in my son's bed.

While in bed, I could hear my DD asking my W to read a story, but my W was really tired and told her that she could tell her a story (which she did) and that she would read a long story tomorroe (tonight). My DD started crying and my W told her she would not get a story. So then my DD said "mom I want to go talk to dad" to which my W replied "Ok, but I think he may be sleeping".

When my DD came over she asked me to read her a story and I told her that it was late and that we would read her a story tomorrow. Well doesn't she start sobbing and it broke my heard so I said "OK a quick story".

Well I think I LB'ed because my wife piped up and said "that great that you are reading her a story, when I told her she couldn't have one". I think she was right and I will tell her tonight that it wasn't a good idea to do so.

That was my night.

It sounds like your WW is so thick in the fog AND the A. What is good is that she is getting NO support for her A from her family, that's an enormous pressure.

How long can you keep up Plan A? And what other EN's have you been able to fill in Plan A?

It sounds like Plan B is inevitable, she is Sooo on the fence. She has placed OM firmly in her fantasy, and villainized you. Yep, you are the bad guy and represent everything that has gone wrong in her life...the OM, everything that she hopes will change. But we all know this is the wrong persepective to look at, that SHE alone is responsible for her happiness.

Time to come up with a plan...and you should stay in the house, with the kids, while she has some "space". Perhaps you can talk her into a temporary situation where she moves out for awhile and you can take care of kids and she can think things through...then Plan B her...no contact with her...she is taking you for granted, sir.

SHMI, I think I sould be able to keep up Plan A until the end of the year at least. We will see as the year ends.

As for which EN's I ahve bee able to fill:

Affection:
- No hugs, kisses, touching of any sort unless by accident. She doesn't want this right now.
- No flowers, cards, gifts, etc. She doesn't want these either.
- No phone calls to her during work since I felt I was bothering her
- I have been trying to do the small things that are not as noticeable including: buying her a coffee, keeping her car filled with gas, asking about her day (even though she doens't tell me much).
I could really use some help on this one.

Conversation:
- No much right now except small talk with the occasional in depth conversation
- I am usually the instigator
- She seems indifferent at times
I could use some more help her also.

Financial Support:
- no problems here

Honesty & Openess:
- I try to be open and honest with her when we get a chance to talk.
- She is not very open to me right now, but I think she is honest when she does talk
- We could use some work on this one also

Family Committment:
- I have been doing much better here
- spending much more time with the kids
- trying to teach them and hep them grow
- I have improved much on this one in the last 2 months

Domestic Support:
- Doing much more here also in the last 2 months
- In addition to dishes and vaccuuming, I now also give the kids baths, make their lunches, make the beds, fold clothes and put them away, increased child care,
- so doing very good here

Sexual Fulfillment:
- none since August 21

So that is a summary of how I am trying to meet her EN's.
I need to improve Affection and Conversation, which I think are her two most improtant, but she is not letting me do that right now. Any ideas?

To me it seems early to be thinking of Plan B. But I'm a newbie.

Your evening sounds like a small success; could have been worse! I bet she was glad to be back in her house with her kids; and maybe even with you - even though she may not want to show it or admit it.

Just thinking of some things W has done for me and vice versa over the last few years. Kind of subjective, but also hard to guess what would be accepted vs rejected in yr sitch - the 'no gifts' is hard to get around. Anyway maybe one of these will jog a thought..
- Pick up a carton of her favorite ice cream or other treat at the grocery?
- Hand her a martini or whatever when she walks in the door?
- Fix or clean something around the house/garage/yard?
- A new shelf or something in the kids' room? (W would appreciate yr being a good dad).
- A nice new showerhead or towel bars? Some women like those kinds of things; not really a gift since it's for the house.
- Some kind of thingy for the garden/yard/patio/deck?
- Something she could use for exercise?
- Rainy days can bring opportunities, e.g. a new umbrella for her, or pick her up/drop her somewhere so she doesn't have to walk in the rain.
I'll try to think of some more.

Well things have not changed much lately and seem to be in a state of constant limbo, but we did have a short R-talk yesterday for the first time in 2 weeks.

Last night at dinner my W asked me what time our next MC session was and I said that I was thinking of cancelling it. I told her that I felt she didn't seem interested in going and I didn't want to force her (I know this is a DJ).

She then told me how I expect to work on our marriage to which I replied "do you want to work on our marriage?", to which she said "I'm still here aren't I". She said "is this the kind of marriage you want?" to which I replied "no, but we both need to make an effort to make things better".

Then I appologized for the hurt that exposure caused her (but I didn't appologize for exposing) and told her why I did it.

Then the topic of forgiveness came up but this time she didn't say she will NEVER forgive me as she usually says, but she said something about needing to forgive to move on. I can't remember the exact words, but the word NEVER wasn't used and that gives me some hope.

She also mentioned that the exposure was another way that I humiliated her.

Then she said she doen't have anybody to turn to. I told her I will always be here for you. She responded by saying "What if I wanted to go stay at my mom's place for a while, I can't even do that."

I asked her if she noticed any changed is me and she replied that she saw the changes with how a interact with my kids. I told her that I would like to show her my changes towards her but I can't since she doesn't want to accept them right now. She said if I were to try and fill her EN's it makes her upset.

I noticed her sighing more over the last couple of days (taking deep breaths as if something is bothering her). She hasn't done this much lately while she has been in withdrawl from me so maybe she is struggling with something. She did these alot before d-day and into late August, but then she seemed to disconnect from me and stopped sighing a much. Maybe I'm just over analyzing.

So I'm considering this a very, very small baby step since she didn't use the word NEVER when the issue of forgivenss came up. Also, even though it wasn't exactly the way I would like to hear it, her comment about "I'm still here aren't I?" was her way of telling me she is trying. She also packed me a lunch last night while she made the kids lunches.

So I will continue to Plan A and see what happens. I hope our MC can begin to break down her wall a little and help her deal with the resentment she has.

Well my in-laws are trying to get my W and I to come over for Thanksgiving but she is having nothing to do with it. This is upsetting my in-laws since they are trying to throw out and olive branch to my W but she is very stubborn and will not budge.

My W wants to have TG alone (this will be a first for us) in our home just with the kids and I. I would really like to go to my in-laws so that it may show my W that reconciliation is possible.

She is still very upset at how she was initially treated by her family after exposure. My MIL and FIL and getting upset at her unwillingness and I feel are getting close to closing her off to the familiy all together.

I'm stuck in the middle since my W blames me for all this and I don't know what to do. I have tried to thoughtfully get her to consider going there for TG but she will have noting of it.

I'm afraid her family is close to abandoning her and I really don't want that to happen.

We have our second MC session tonight and the MC told me she will try to get some goals for us. This is pending my W support of course.

She is just so distant and bitter towards everyone right now. How long can her attitude last? Does she need a real wake up to see what the consequences of her actions will be?

Last night she said if we don't make it and we share custody with the kids that they would see it as an "adventure". Is this babble talk or what?

Hope,

Perhaps the Thanksgiving issue is an opportunity for you to show some leadership and some compassion. One you and your family having Thanksgiving together is probably a very good thing, and for that you should thank your W and praise her for this choice. Be enthusiastic because it is really something good. Then make sure it is a fun, and family oriented event.

Next, talk to your W and ask if she realizes that they are extending the olive branch. If she doesn't see that, explain it to her, but agree that spending TG with just your family is an excellent idea. Rather than make a DJ, ask your W how she feels about going over there at some other time. If she is even a little accepting of this idea, then talk with your in-laws.

Perhaps you, your W, and the kids can go over there on Fri, Sat. to eat left overs?

It seems to me if you show your W sensitivity and care and you show your ability to be a diplomat, you will put a few coins in the old love bank. She will need to reunite with her family for a good recovery and to the extent that you can help do so.

She has not figured out that exposure was not about punishment but you recruiting as much help as you could to save the marriage, and oddly even save her. She probably won't realize this until the A ends and withdrawal ends.

Think diplomacy and support her idea for Thanksgiving.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks JL, I will try showing some leadership and diplomacy for this Thanksgiving.

Her father and mother said some mean things to her and she is really hurt by that. I told them after exposure that I asked for help in talking to her, not making demands or yelling.

She talks to her mother, but it is very quick and only involves non R issues.

I will try to talk to her tonight if the MC session goes well, otherwise I will leave it for tomorrow.

I'm starting to feel like I'm running up a slippery hill since I don't seem to be getting anywhere with her. She is cold, distant and indifferent with me.

I beginning to think time is the only way to begin her healing, but hopefully by them she will still want to be involved with our M. As time goes by and she reconnects with her family and doesn't feel alienated at work, hopefully she will come around. She told me she is ashamed of me and what I did...ouch!

It has been over 2 months since d-day and I don't think I have made any progress. Sometimes I feel like things are getting worse.

Sorry to hear that you feel this way. I am sure you have made some progress...you are not divorced yet are you? That is progress !

How much do you have "left in the tank"? You should probably recheck your "reserves" and keep a close feel for what you have left and act accordingly. You don't want to wake up one day and find yourself "empty" and just say "F-this"....I'm out..

On the bright side, the comment your Wayward wrote of being ashamed at you because of what "you did" will be nominated by me at this years "Wayward spouses most innane comments ceremony".

The current winner is the moron Wayward Spouse who said upon being given a Plan B letter that the "Plan B just was not practical"....... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Good lord !!!!

Goodluck,

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />