I explained about the going out to dinner and my describing him as "wonderful". I also described about him giving her a gift and not telling me about it. I also described that my wife and her friend would talk very much about OM and how the past was the past and she was only concerned with the present.

The C thinks this is approriate and I'm not happy with this.

Time for a new counselor.

Hope: Your first post yday morning sounded like a description of a good MC session. Okay you took some undeserved whacks. But then you expected that. Please don't be discouraged.

And thank god MC did not say you're 100% right she's 100% wrong - because W would reject that and shut down, further widening the divide between you. Better you take the pain for now; it will become more balanced later. And that could well be what yr MC is thinking.

I'm not in your shoes my friend, but even though W came out seemingly feeling worse, I think she really feels better for having unburdened herself in front of a C.

Either with same C or a new one, can I suggest you continue counseling? Next session will go a little better since W has had a vent. She may need to vent again. And again. But - pls try to trust me on this - very soon she'll be bored with venting. Who can repeat the same speech 5 times? And, if for no other reason than to fill the hour, she will have some productive exchanges with you. You'll be prepared with just the right words for that time.

FWIW early on we switched counselors after just 2 sessions. More for MC's lack of personality than his approach. Even though W and I weren't getting along at the time, we could easily agree that the old C was horrible. The current one (7 years) is terrific. Was referred through church. Over the 20 or so sessions in several years, sometimes I've felt very unjustly treated. But so what? It's not about me, it's about the M. It's not about who's right who's wrong, it's about the M. Whatever helps the M..

Totally appropriate?

Did your MC get her certification throught one of those online degree progams?

Get a new MC. Married people do not go out to dinner multiple times with and receive secret presents from members of the opposite sex.

Please, ask your MC what is appropriate about this? I'm interested to know.

I doubt MC's purpose is to determine what's appropriate behavior and what's not. More likely, your goal is for MC to help you both put together a new better M. And to that purpose MC may say some things that sound strange. He's not a judge, he's a facilitator. He's not a truth-teller, he's a catalyst. Remember chemistry? Take a situation where nothing good is happening, add a little catalyst, and nice surprises occur. MC isn't quite so scientific or predictable, but you should expect it to work.

BTW my firm had a Employee Assistance Program which paid for several MC sessions a year. C/b worth looking into..

I will entertain one more session with MC to see what happens. If I find she is not givng us a plan to work on the M then I will not go to other session.

For the next 2 weeks she has asked that we don't ask each other anything unless it is for the kids or finances. I guess the idea is to give each other and especially my W time with no pressure from me.

It has been two months since d-day and things have defenitely become worse. I guess that is to be expected, but I was hoping for a gradual improvement. Instead it has been ups and downs, followed by a sharp decline in the last couple of weeks. A couple of weeks after exposure my WW made an attempt at being somewhat pleasant to me, but now she just seems determined to do what she wants to do.

When I told my WW that I felt things have worsened over the last few weeks, she said she felt that they haven't, just stayed the same.

I haven't said ILY in several weeks and have only had one R-talk over the last 2 weeks. She used to accept me doing things for her, but now she wants to do more stuff herself.

I've been very good at not LB'ing, but I can't seem to meet her EN right now so how will I be able to start filling her LB$? This is my dilema right now.

I am doing the small things that she said I wasn't doing in the MC session (i.e. giving the kids baths, spending more time with them, reading to them).

I am trying not to pursue or pressure my W, but I don't want to seem indifferent either. How do I make this happen?

In the past few weeks my WW has shown more anger, defiance, and independence towards me. This most likely indicates that the EA has resumed to some extent.

She is starting work earlier again and coming home later. She is working out more often and spending less time with the kids even though she does love them very much.

Her house work has dropped off noticeably and she seems more concerned with what she is wearing than the state of her household.

This is similar to how she was prior to d-day and she changed much after exposure since she was forced to take 3 weeks off work. She was more pleasant, worked out less, spent more time with the family and took an interest in the household.

Her relationships with me, her family, our friends is non-existant. She has distanced herself from everyone except her kids and even that realtionship is not what is used to be.

Her realtively newer work friends seem to be most important to her right now. She has found faults in everyone who loves her almost as a mechanism to distance herself.

Does not sound good. You should start investigating again.

You can't feel good about those developments or your EA reading of the situation. But where to go from here? If you were to just ask her - calmly - about her current relationship with OM, would she be likely to answer truthfully?

How's it going Hope? Wishing you a better week this week!

wnh, well this weekend didn't produce any major ups or downs so in that sense it was a success. I am just trying to limit my LB'ing right now and to keep things even keeled for a while so that my W memory of my exposure wears a little.

She is still distant and cold, but we do talk about non-R stuff and she can be pleasant at times, especially when the kids do somethning funny and she looks at me with a smile.

No talk of seperation this weekend so that was an improvement from last weekend where she was talking about a seperation and seperate bank account. She is probably still thinking about it, but hasn't verbalized it.

My BIL appologized to my W for how he initially reacted to her when I asked him for help during exposure. He told her he was sorry for yelling, but wants her to understand this would be a detrimental decision that affects many people not the least of which is our kids.

I know it is about baby steps, but sometimes you want to see progress come quickly. I have really be laying off my W the past week with no R-talk, no ILY (for a few weeks now), no pressure, just backing off and letting giving her time to think.

In the MC session she said she had no more emotional feeling for me which really hurt, but I was expecting to hear things such at that. I'm sure many others have heard similar things.

I am going to the doctor tomorrow to ask for some anti-depresants not because I feel severely depressed, but to help me focus on my work and R. I find that I am thinking bout my W and R far too much during the day and need something to help me with this. I figure that it can't hurt with the R either since it will help me be in a better mood for most of the time.

Boy I want so bad to hold her and kiss her that it hurts me sometimes. I dream of the day where she tells me she wants to work on the M and give me a hug and kiss. My kids are really helping me with the incentive that I need to get through this.

So all in all it was a better weekend that last weekend. Call it a baby step forward. I don't want her to feel that I don't care, but I want to also start showing her some care and affection, but I don't know how without it bothering her.

But even those baby steps do make progress. You're doing great Hope! Hang in there. I think it was Mortarman who said 'this is a battle you fight from your knees'. I remember that often.

I'm not too original, but maybe I can pass on some ideas along the lines of those given me by Shattered?

Is there any excuse to give her a hand-drawn card or tiny gift from the kids? Maybe something good happened for her at work, at church, etc? Anything to use as an excuse for the kids to give her a little card? W would know you were behind it of course (We just did that so it's on my mind). Or maybe pick up or make a dinner that she'd like? Even if she doesn't sit down to eat with you and DB and DD, I'd bet it will still register with her that you went out of your way for her.

She may not seem grateful. At one point I got a big speech from WW, one line of which was '..not only do I not want to see you or spend time with you, I don't even want to touch the food you prepare for dinner!!' BUT in stark contrast to her words, she does almost every day eat the dinners I make. I count those as small victories (especially as I'm such a crappy cook!)

I suppose it takes a very very light touch, (no heavy-handed drawings of a family with all four of you there e.g.) Those little light kinds of things seem to be opening up communications in our house - or maybe it's just that elapsed time makes things less abrasive. Not sure they're helping, but maybe...and at the very least we're a bit more comfortable together.

When is your next MC session? Even though painful for you, that might be the one single best thing for your M this week. Even if it doesn't feel like any progress was made..

Wishing us both a good week. Not expecting any miracles soon. But a couple of baby steps can over time amount to progress..I think time is on your side even if it may not feel that way.

It certainly does feel like I'm fighting from my knees. In fact it also feels like I'm fighting with one arm tied behind my back and blind folded. We have to take all this abuse and in turn be nice, considerate, loving, kind, etc. That is a great quote from mortarman and I will keep in mind.

I just did this and snuck the card in her luggage for her 4 day business trip. The card was from the kids.

Yesterday I offered to cook lunch for the family so that she could spend time with the kids before going on her business trip. She declined, but this morning she said "I think I'm going to take you up on that offer for lunch so I can give the kids a bath". A small baby step.

Yes I have learned this also. It is the subtle things that will have the greatest impact. The wispers and not the shouts.

I am really concerned with my next MC session in about a week and a half. The C told me things don't look good and she wants my W to let her anger out. Is that good? Shouldn't she be giving us a plan?


I want to do some sublte things for my W while she is away on business and would like some ideas. Anything is welcome.

[quote
I want to do some sublte things for my W while she is away on business and would like some ideas. Anything is welcome. [/quote]

Will your wayward spouse be seeing or interacting with the OM on this "business" trip?

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

She will be ging with 8 other people in her department of which OM is not part of. I know OM office number and will call him tomorrow to see if he is in (I won't talk to him of course).

Obviously nothing is 100% for sure, but every indication and piece of information she has given me tells me he won't be on that trip. She may contact him via phone or email of course.

I would just 100% assume that she will be talking to him while in the trip...that way, at least you won't be so upset if you find eveidence of this.

I read your posts with a heavy heart. I hope that you are able to get your wife back and keeo the family intact.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Lem. Things are really hanging by a string right now and I am trying to keep things together.

I've been praying for humility and patience for myself and clarity for my WW.

Dude, you are the only one keeping the family together now. There is some honor in that. I don't know if you will ever get your WW back...but I do know that you are a good and honorable man and will survive this and someday prosper. That I can promise you.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Business trips are lonely. When I would go on business trips I'd think fondly about spouse and kids. Could be yr W will have some of those thoughts while she's gone? A little taste of what she could miss out on if she doesn't work things out with you?

wnh, I think it could go either way since she might feel relieved from escaping me for a short while. That may give her a sense that it is what she really wants.

I have a feeling she will enjoy this short time away from me and everything that has been happening. So this may add to her belief that things would be better seperated. Then again she is living in a hotel with meals taken care or and no kids to watch, so really it is like a holiday for her.

I know she will defenitely miss the kids, but will that be enough to keep her from persuing a seperation?

I went away on business in June and my W told me she didn't miss me at all. So it will be interesting to see what she is like when she returns. This is her first business trip in about 4 years.