Oh Hope we're all so sorry. I remember the night I found out, throwing up was high on my list of feelings.

Expose now. You know for sure. Tell everyone and see if that will rattle her enough to shake her from her little dream.

Do not forget that you are in the right, and that many have recovered from this (including myself)! Love your kids and yourself.

Melody is right, the job must go, or, you have the power now to sink her. Use it if necessary.

Htw,

I know that the new twist to your situation has probably really got you down. I’ve been following your posts for a very long time.

I’m on your team! So is weneedhelp, MelodyLane, lemonman, StillHereMakingIt, and many many others.

It wasn’t long ago I was right where you are and I know how it feels.

Know that things will get better. That’s no bullsh** statement either. That’s why a few of us dropped the hint that it would be a possible (I believed likely) discovery on your part that your W’s A was/is a PA.

Nothing has changed. It was going on when you had a great attitude before and you admitted that it was a possibility. That is BS fog I believe. It helps us cope with some ugly things and there is nothing wrong with it.

You have to root this out for the ugliness that it really is and expose again, but with the new found information. If I was you I would give serious consideration to exposing your technique for information gathering. Maybe consider using the evidence you have to compel you to use other more crafty evidence gathering methods. I say that because it was effective and you don’t want to lose this tool if you need it in the future. Protecting your M isn’t easy and I don’t know exactly what that “other method” might be, but she is running deep and silent and it may be the only way you have to trust and verify in the future if you know what I mean. Maybe one of our other MB’s will have a good suggestion for techniques you can use. A PI might be just the ticket.

For all of our sake you have to keep your head up! You have been an unbelievable inspiration to me personally. You have some wonderful children that adore you. Focus on all the things that you have posted about what you love about your W. Not the bad. She is an alien right now! Don’t forget that.

I’m really rooting for you and your family.

Plank.

Thanks to everyone for all your support during this difficult time im my life. It really is priceless since I don't have anyone else to talk about it.

Melody, on the tape I heard they were on a parking garage and you could hear moaning an groaning. That's all I want to say since it really is upseting.

She finally admitted to it last night when I confronted her and she told me she wanted to hurt me because of what I did to her (exposing in July). She told me she doesn't love me anymore and doesn't think she wants to try to work on the M. She also said that he is so kind to her and that's what she likes. They have been friends for a long time.

I finally got her to agree to quit her job and do the NC letter. So I expect her to give her 2 weeks notice on Tuesday and send the NC letter on her last day of work. She doesn't want me to hurt him (go figure) so I think she is doing this more to protect him than for me. She told me a lot of painful things last night and I didn't sleep a wink.

Today she is depressed and must be in withdrawl for knowing that her contact will come to an end soon. All she has been doing is sleeping and crying occasionally. I'm sure she is begining her withdrawl period now. I expect her to see him or talk to him during the next 2 weeks and then it will be NC time. If she fails, then I expose again.

I was kind of expecig this in the back of my mind but was in denial. Now that it has finnaly been revealed I can start to move on. Hopefully she is successful with NC and goes through withdrawl and slowly starts to reconnect with me.

Should I make up the NC letter and have her sign it or what is the normal process. And when should I send it?

Thanks again everyone

Hope, I would write the letter TODAY together and you can deliver it yourself to him, either in person or via mail. She should have no contact with him EVER AGAIN from this day forward. I would not settle for less, Hope.

And I think her blaming this on you is despicable, sick, and malicious. If she hadn't been or hadn't wanted to act like a pig with him, wild horses couldn't have dragged her to do that. That is a sick rationalization and you should not let that stand. She had sex with him for one reason and one reason only: she is having an affair with him.

So, now you know you were RIGHT and she was lying all along about not having an affair. You have the proof, Hope, and don't you let her get away lying about it anymore.

a sample:

Dr. Harley?s (From SAA)

(OP), I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk with you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that (BS) did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay (BS) for the pain I have caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she?s been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.
Sincerely,
(WS)

FWIW in my case, I got WW to write a NC letter, but it was useless for 2 reasons. First, she didn't want to and her heart wasn't in it. And second, she sent it out before I got a chance to read or edit it, so it was very different from the model NC letters on the MB site. It was Melody, I think, who called it more of a 'warning' letter than a NC letter.

Anyway because it was an infatuation by my WW, NC by WW wouldn't have worked in our case. NC had to be driven by OM. Since I exposed to OMW, OM seems to refused attempted contacts by my WW. Not ideal, but at least it's something. Is there a way you can get OM to refuse your W's contacts?

weneedhelp, yours was useless because your W was not sincere about ending contact. We don't know that about his W. A nc letter is only as good as the actions behind it. Sending the NC letter can never guarantee nc, no one is dilluded into thinking that, it is more a good will gesture to the BS. And she needs to show him this good will gesture right now. Since she has agreed to end contact there is no reason for her to not send it. Often, their heart is not completely into it, but it can effectively show how sincere they really are about nc and effect the beginning of the rebuilding of trust.

I am sorry you had to find out this way.

But YOU KEEP THAT TAPE...MAKE A COPY...GET IT TO OMW..whoever!

She is blowing smoke and saying words right outta the "Sc@ewed Up WS Handbook". The I hate you's...the "you ruined my life." etc etc. yada yada yada.

She's got the fantasy going. It is hormonally driven ok? That is what makes our thinking brains turn off. Darn hormones.

And nothing turns off the hormones like a good cold shower.. or another dose of exposure.

Affairs kill marriages. Exposure kills the affair.

Her actions and words are seriously fogged in nature.

She needs a proverbial MB version of a cold shower to wake her up.

That would be expose to high heaven to whomever will listen.

She is heck bent on the divorce train b/c she is having a cake party. Eating a little here, and a little there...and you are trying to take the cake away...you could substitute crack pipe, alcohol, anything for the cake btw. It is a stupid hormonal addiction to the FEELINGS an affair wakes up that lies dormant in many people.

What I've learned in reading about this phenomena...that if you want a first date to be perceived as "really great", you have to include something that would cause the endorphin response to kick in. You could try a roller coaster, scary movie. Those work. And the same feelings ignite when a person is in an affair. They know it's wrong. It's the "danger Will Robinson" feeling they get that makes it fun. I am being blunt ok? And they're somebody new! They don't see them take a poo, or do laundry, or belch. They see this person who LISTENS TO THEM, wants to be with them, and says all the right stuff. That person doesn't go to work each day and ask you to iron their shirt. That person does not balance the checkbook or rotate your tires. That is what the spouse does. Even the word spouse to me sometimes feels negative. It's the break from the normal...the hormone rush...the endorphin high that makes these former normal people turn itno endorphin junkies jonesing however they can to get from high to another high with their OP.

I think the tape though has woken you up. You should always assume, imho...if there is such a strong emotional attraction that sex is involved. How could there not Be? Easy. Because you wanted to believe it was not happening.

You can still save the marriage. And this may be the impetus for you to get tougher. Get stronger. And become the Arnold S of BS!!! IT's time to get tough, fight the good fight, do all you can do, and in the end say "hasta la vista baby" to this moron of an OM.

It is a positive thing to get proactive. Like my former counselor, the really good tough girl told me "You'll either get your Husband back your you'll get your life back...either one is a good outcome." Either way youre gonna be a winner. So there is nothing to lose right? Work da program brotha! Your kids are depending on you now to be the RESPONSIBLE AND SMART PARENT. You can do this!

WNH...I am sorry that it came to this but experienced folks knew better and their advice has not changed. You must change! You must attempt to kill the affair. She is like a drug addict. It must be tough love. You realize now that this is for keeps, that she can not be trusted. Now do something....just peachy has it right. Get your wife or your life back. Do nothing and all you will do is feel sorry for yourself...and set yourself BACKWARDS from the end result of how you get there....good luck....we're all here...

First of all let me say thanks to everyone again for all your support and thoughts.

Last night my WW threatened legal seperation if I forced her to quit her job. Well something finally clicked in my head when she made that threat. I came to the realization that sooner or later I have to take a stand for me, my marriage and my family. I didn't tell her this but as she uttered those words, I felt a calmness come over me.

Now I am not forcing her to quit her job, I just stated that I will do whatever it takes to stop the A and save our M including re-exposing if NC is not implimented. She feels like I'm taking everything away from her. She said "be angry with me not him", to which I replied I'm not angry...I'm so very hurt". It got heated for a while and I tried not to LB. Finally it ended when she said F***You. That was the first time she ever said that to me.

She also said "I'm not a bad person" and "I'm sorry I hurt you". Boy the sorry just doesn't cut it right now.

Today I kept thinking of the tape and at time I found it difficult to breathe. My WW seemed to be in a better mood, but I was felling depressed. I left with the kids and she got a chance to listen to the tape. When I returned her eyes were all watery. I don't know if she was crying because she was missing OM or felt guilty, probably the former.

At dinner time we had a really deep conversation. It was sad and emotional, but things were said that needed to be. She asked me what I though was the biggest error, besides the A and I told her it my inability to meet her most important need. She told me OM told her she was beautiful and said things that I never said and that she needs someone to be totally into her and she won't settle for less. She said he did things I never did. A lot of other things were said that hurt, but now I know what I am dealing with. She said she regrets not telling me that I wasn't meeting her need.

I also told her that I love her very much, but my love for her would slowly run out if we continued like this. I would have to stop all contact with her to preserve that last bit of love just in case we reconciled in the future. She was sad to hear this since she felt it would hurt the kids.

I asked her if she would miss OM and she started to cry. I validated that he was probably very nice to her.

She is going to write the NC letter but I have final edit powers. I told her very clearly that if NC is broken I will not hesitate to expose in such a way that my intial exposure would look like a slap on the wrist.

She is more worried about OM loosing his job that her it seems. I said if after NC she hadn't regained her feelings for me given some time, I could better accept our eventual seperation, but I couldn't accept it knowing I didn't do everything possible to make it work.

At one point she said she had a headach and I offered to get her an Advil. She was confused and said "I don't know what you want. Your angry with me and you offer to get me an Advil?" That is Plan A baby!

She also said she loves me like the father of her children, but not a lover.

Do all WW get feeling back for BS after withdrawl? I'm concerned that my WW won't. She seems to be acting reasonalby today. She actually said she loved me hoplessly, but her love started to fade slowly until now.

I think she saw a different side to me tonight and she actualy said something interesting. She said "if things start to improve between us, I would like to go away with the kids this winter". Is she saying there is a chance? Is she open to the possibility that things can improve, that she can get her feelings back?

Well it was an interesting day and should be an interesting week ahead. If it was up to her she would not write NC letter so I don't know how effective NC will be.

Hope...you have now begun the sadistic ride of the recovering roller coaster. Stand your ground, accept nothing less from her than what you know is right and accpet the possibilities it will not turn out as you wish. You're headed in the right direction.
Don't LB...I can not imagine ever having a recording....just plan A....and make sure NC!!

Again, we're here for you...

Hope-

Of course he is "nice" to her, he's trying to get down her pants. How many times has he got up in the middle of the night with her kids while they puked all over him?

I told my wife that about her OM (the convicted felon, if you remember)...that he was only trying to get down her pants (which he succeeded in doing). No, no, she said. He's a poet and a romantic <barf, barf>. Right, the violent ex-con poet thing always reels them in.

Talk about aliens, wow. Don't let her try to pin anything on you. Nothing compares to what she did. You may have been an inattentive [censored] at times, but that doesn't excuse her taking her pants off.

By the way, has anyone not been "nice" to a woman they were trying to get in the sack? And that crap about wanting to hurt you after exposure...please! That's where this whole thing was heading and I'd be surprised if the episode you recorded is the only one.

You can recover, many others have or are working at it (like me!) so I know it's possible. Of course she's still open to it- she's still in the house isn't she?

Well it certainly is difficult not to LB when you are trying to negotiate NC with OM. After lengthy discussions, my WW agreed to ask for an immediate transfer (2 weeks) from OM office or she would resign.

She is the one who is having the A, however I feel like I have been getting all of the accusations and blame. She considers her A a "mistake" that I am using against her.

So I showed her the NC letter I would like to send to OM and she flat out declined. She came up with her own that I added a few things to that I could live with. It basically said their R was a mistake and that she can longer have any business or personal contact with him. She requested that he not try to contact her or ask her why. I mailed the letter this morning so he sould receive it by the weekend.

She is angry and upset with me and I feel so hurt and betrayed. The dynamics of this whole situation is ironic that the BS gets the blame and anger from WS while the BS goes into Plan A. This must be what ****** is like.

Her mood is sad at times and she also is displaying anger with me so I don't know if these are withdrawl symptoms or not. I will try very hard to bring my Plan A back up to the level it needs to be after this dificult weekend.

One interesting thing she said to me was "it bugs me when you read those books...do you think this is a textbook?". Boy if she only knew how "textbook" the whole situation really is?

What signs should I start to look for that WW is going through withdrawl and at some point coming out of withdrawl?

I don't see her feelings changing but I am always hopeful.

Her being weepy and angry with you is a GOOD thing...it may be indeed withdrawal.

Did you really think your WW would act otherwise given the fact that you are killing this affair fantasy for her. She is pissed as ****** at you right now....That is all notmal.

I am admittedly a cynic and a pessimist with Waywards, so I would ask you on the "rare chance" that she breaks NC and goes back into the affair...do you have a plan for that? If you read the site here long enough...there is unfortunateley "NC" broken many times BEFORE true no cotact. I hope that you didn't compromise anything on the NC letter. She signed the letter, so I guess that is good???? (sigh)

I would keep HYPERVIGILANT now, as your WW may just go to even deeper means to hide the affair. Did you CONFIRM FOR YOURSELF if she asked for this transfer....ala talking to her BOSS personally. Your wife's credibilty is absolutely ZERO NOW....so you can believe nothing of what she says, and ONLY about half of what you see her do. It will hopefully change, but for now, don't let down only to be betrayed again.

As an aside, has your WW agred to get tested for HIV, and othr STD's....this should be a requirement for yuo to resume discussing reconciliation. To be truly "safe" you will need to be do this for 6 months before resuming SF....you have to be the "smart one" here.

DON'T LET ANYONE TELL YOU DIFFERENT.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yes, yes! Listen to lemonman! You are too nice Hope, which is better than being too mean but still...

Your WW has absolutely no credibility now (like lemon said) so take everything she says as a lie. She's really not pissed at you, she's more pissed at herself but doesn't know it yet.

Keep spying, get her back into MC, and expect crap like "fake recovery" and even more nasty surprises. It will be worth it someday, believe me. Now continue the plan A that you've been so good at!

mflake, I'm not used to my WW lying to me so that is why it is so hard for me to think she is lying when she looks me in the eyes and tells me something.

I am trying to grasp the concept that she is an alien right now and clouded by the fog.

Last night I asked her if she spoke to OM and she told me he called her in the morning and all she told him was a letter was on its way to him that he needs to read. I don't believe that is all they talked about. She also left a long message for her boss regarding the transfer so hopefully she will hear back today.

She also told me she was "appauled" at my attempt at an NC letter since it said "I will try to be the wife he has been missing". I told her the A was wrong and it hurt me. Then she told me something that is the foggiest babble I have heard so far.

She said it is not an affair it was a "MOMENT OF WEAKNESS". I just looked at her and left the room without saying anything.

She seemed to be in a better mood last night even though she came home from work early and lay on the couch with a blanket on her for a while.

I know for sure her #1 EN is Affection. I can't supply much if any right now but hopefully as she goes through withdrawl I will get a chance to give her some.

I'm still Plan A'ing, but I'm sometimes think that I don't want her anymore after what she has done to me. All the lies, deceipt, dishonesty, and infidelity.

Hope, if she has agreed to no contact, why is she still in contact with him? I just don't see this as a serious effort at all, do you?

And please realize that it is FULLY within your right to feel this way. Although you may not realize it, you hold all the cards. Their is alot of fog going on here, but I think a majority of it is your own....that IMVHO is the most deadliest. Your WW had shown her hand to you a number of times already...she has lied to you while looking into your eyes....this is something that you have to realize, and why it is so imprortant to stop believing her....HER actions DO NOT mimick those of a repentful wife who wants to make it "right". You caught her as red handed as possible, and for all intents and purposes YOU WROTE the NC letter, and she is STILL talking to him. The letter means nothing without enforcement from her and you....Itis not some magical act that happens when one writes a NC letter, ESPECIALLY as it went down in your case...consider it a wasted .37....ofcourse many will disagree with me, and still find that the NC was a "hopeful" sign...it wasn't.

I am sorry, but this all "more of the same" with her and the OM.

Condolonces.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

ML, I think the only reason she is in NC is that she is afraid I will expose her again. I set my boundaries down and told her that I cannot accept anymore contact period.

She said what if he calls again in 2 weeks. I told her I need to know immediately and we will deal with it then.

Boy this is going to be very difficult to get through. I am starting to see why the vets said recovery is the difficult part.

Wait a minute. But she HAS NOT stopped contact. She is taking his calls. Why? You said above that she spoke to him.

ML, we mailed the NC letter yesterday morning and he probably won't get it until tomorrow at the earliest. OM called my WW yesterday morning before receiving the NC letter and that is when my WW told him that she cannot talk and that he will be receiving a letter explaining.

That is what she told me and but she has lied to me before so she probably spoke to OM for a while. Now that this first call is out of the way I will be asking her every night if she had contact. Really there is no 100% way to ensure NC is there?