Why won't you expose to ILs? That will shine another light on WW's actions. The affair will then appear to her to be the sleazy ordeal that it is. You are only shortchanging yourself here. When are you going to do what needs to be done?

Hang in there Hope. Take another deep breath. Do the same tomorrow, same the next day. This will pass.

UVA, even though I feel like crap, she is making an effort to have NC. I restated my boundary last night and told her that I cannot accept anymore contact with OM and if there is contact I need to know about it immediately.

She said if there is contact it won't be from her initiating it. I told her if he tried to contact her that I need to know about it right away and we will deal with it.

I also said that if I find about contact on my own it would hurt me greatly and force me to do whatever is required to protect our M (i.e. exposure)

If I expose now, it will blow whatever small traces of trust we have left.

She is living in our house, sleeping in our bed, in NC with OM and attending MC with me. I don't think now is the right time for exposure.

wnh, thanks I have been taking many deep breaths lately and hope like you things will eventually get better. How is you situation going?

Hope, NC has to be a two way street, though. It is not enough for her to agree to not contact him. She has to agree to not allow him to contact her and has to agree to stop working with him. Will she send a nc letter? That should tell you how sincere she is and I suspect its not too sincere at all.

I think you have been beaten into believing that exposure is somehow BAD by this nutty MC and your angry W. But it is only bad for the AFFAIR, Hope, not the marriage, if it effectively ends the affair. Sure it made your W angry, but that is perfectly ok.

What I am suggesting is that you need to step this up and tell her that nc means NO CONTACT. Don't settle for less. It means that she sends him a letter showing her committment and that she not take his calls.

What is the work situation?

HTW that's the way I approached NC too. Didn't work. Because I didn't feel right about going nuclear - exposing - until I'd tried other avenues, I delayed exposing to give WW a chance to establish NC herself. It did not work. She told me (and our MC) that she was in NC, while continuing contact. Boldfaced lies. At the urging of Mel and her friends, I finally exposed. It's now 6 weeks later. I think they're in NC - just from the change in WW's attitude - but not sure. They may have just gone deep underground.

In our case I hadn't told WW that I had a way of monitoring for contact. So she thought she could get away with it. It may be a bit different from where you are.

ML, my WW has already sent the NC letter on Oct 11, but there has been contact since (OM called my WW). So should I ask her to send another letter and insist on NC?

She is no longer attending his office location and as of November 1, she will be transfered to another location far away from OM. Therefore, the only way she will be in physical contact with OM is if they plan it.

I am happy about the transfer, but I need assurances that there is NC (phone calls or emails).

Hope, I would ask that she have a plan in place if he does call. For example, she should not be taking his calls, that is contact and the onus is on her to make sure he doesn't get through.

I wasn't aware that she sent a nc letter already.

I have a bad feeling about all this and am concerned about her continuing to work with him.

Hope,

I see your reasons, and they are good. I hope NC is truly established. Like the rest, though, I feel uneasy about your sitch, so please be vigilant.

Best

HTW,

I have read every single post. You are getting some of the best advice I have heard. I feel for you so much, My WH has said some of the most hateful, aurgumentative and plain wrong statements that your WW has used on you. My WH will tell me how wonderful I am and that I didn't do anything wrong and then(sometimes the same day) tell me that the affair isn't the reason that we are in trouble and that I know I did things to get us here. He can never be specific when I challenge him. He just says that he knows how I am or how I can or would be. If it didn't hurt so much it would be hilarious.

Hang in there and remember that you are the rock in your family. She is floundering around in the turbulant sea that she created and refusing the lifejackets that you and her family are offering her.

I really understand the feeling of love you have for her because I feel the same for my WH. To love someone in spite of the hurt and anger must be what God does for us. Sometimes I am so angry at my WH that I can barely look at him. Just feel the anger, I guess. But don't unleash it on her. She will just use it at a reason to end the M. I take a walk or a bath or read from this site. Like everything else we are feeling, it will pass.

I am in your corner all the way. Take care and God Bless.

Loni

FOG....YOU do know realize the inherent faults with this thinking don't you. The fact that your wife says that C will not be on the basis of her initiating it is kind of ludicrous and just a "half truth".

You have this affair on the ropes, I would suggest you really think hard about letting it (the affair) up for a breath. Exposing the full truth to your inlaws would be a suggestion that I would follow....and would probably be the final nail in the coffin of the affair.

The first NC letter is already null and void. I don't get the impression that your WW sees "contact" as the evil it really is, and how dangerous it is to your marriage and family.

I know that you are afraid, but sadly, I am not hopeful that this "round" of the affair will end any differently as the other rounds. She is being transferred in November, and no doubt probably secretly sees this is a last hurrah untill then, at which point she will go further underground, if need be.

There are people far more knowledgeable about this than me, but I just have such a sense of despait over this one...your WW is a "tough one"...she does not respect your marriage or you, and clearly all of the shots are still being called by her.....your still under her fear.

This is your life, so you know best.....I hope it works this time around.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

lem, I have really come to respect your opinion over these last few months. I just wish you would be more critical <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Point blank...I'm afraid to expose this time even though I did it the first time.

It may be fog talk on WW part, but my gut tells me it is not yet time for exposure.

She is fully aware of where I stand right now and if she decides to continue the A then my exposure will resemble a carpet bombing. I just need to play this through for a little while longer to see what happens. She is making an effort by obtaining an immediate transfer.

My WW just called me at work to ask me to pick up some stuff on the way home. It was quick and she didn't ask how my day was going, but it was good to hear her call. She hasn't called my work in about 6 weeks.

I started calling her again once a day starting last week just to see how her day is going. I had stopped doing this back in late August. I think that may have been a mistake on my part and gave her the impression I didn't care, while all I was doing was trying not to smother her.

How do you know when you are in Recovery?

What is the criteria (i.e. NC, both want to work on M, etc.)?

Hey Hope-

For my situation, here's when I knew recovery could start:

My wife totally capitulated, told me the whole truth, told the MC the whole truth, begged my forgiveness, and made a real effort to meet my ENs and change her thought processes. That's just me though.

Now do I know 100% that she has changed her tune? No.
Do I trust her like I used to? No.
Is our marriage the best it has been? Yes.

That's because we are both really trying, focusing ourselves on our marriage and our kids. You may or may not have the same experience.

I would say the next time she gives you any crap you phone her parents and let them in on the PA part. She needs to cater to you since she lied her a** off to you.

In the last two weeks I've found out about two marriages close to me dissolving. It's an epeidemic. I guess people think that to deal with their problems they need to pop pills or take their pants off.

By the way, my FWW "busted" me writing about her. It didn't make her mad (because I've said all the same stuff to her face). That's another good sign of recovery.

mflake, I think you were one of the rare BS who's WS had an "enlightening".

I really don't expect that to happen in my case, but I would like to see some effort on my WW part besides the NC and MC.

I want to hear her say that she wants to work on the marriage. I want to her to start meeting some of my EN. I want to feel safe. Since she is still in the fog I can't expect that right now.

Did you WW lie to your MC as mine has done. I can't wait to see what happens Wednesday when we attend our first MC session since the PA was discovered. I hope she becomes more honest and reveals more information to me. Now that our MC knows she has made a huge lie, I expect her to be a little more firm with her. If not she will be fired.

Sorry to hear you got busted, but at least she now knows.

How did you WW come out of the fog so quickly? Any ideas?

About contact with the OP.

Lemme let you in on a hint...

Unless the WS is committed on recovery...really..the A will just go further underground as Lemon said.

How do I know?

Easy.

My xh and I moved 7.5 hours away from my home in TN to here in ATL. He said that the distance was NC from ow1 monkey...he would say all along "how could you carry on a long distance affair?"

I say easy because HE DID..Just think moving from one division to another is not gonna cut it. there has to be committment from the Ws.

My xh used cheap airfare, cheap hotels, business trips, and trips when I'd go home to see my family to fly his CHEAP mistress into ATL and wine and dine her.

The idiot lovebirds found it even more "romantic and dangerous" to carry on that way.

Oh, don't be sorry about her catching me, I already told her I hung out on this site and shared experiences. She just got a bit curious so I happily shared.

My FWW lied the whole time! Even after NC and 3 MC sessions she wouldn't admit to the PA for over a month!

I think her fog really lifted when I sat her down and told her I was seriously thinking about leaving and that she could explain to the kids later about "how mommy couldn't keep her legs closed." Nasty, I know, but I'd had enough and I would have left her if she didn't straighten up.

Another aspect of her "awakening" was the fact that her family loves me, her friends like me, and I have never treated her with anything but trust and respect. Everyone telling her she had a good deal was instrumental in getting her out of the fog.

Right after NC she faked being out of it, but it took a while longer for her to really get it, and that's when the capitulation happened. I was real straightforward with her about what I would and wouldn't tolerate, and I kept the moral high ground the whole time. Being an SOB at the appropriate times seemed to help my situation.

Your is still in fantasyland, you've taken her boyfriend away so you are evil. Keep up the spying and keep after her. Treat any overnight recovery as fake to yourself but encourage any good behavior she has, even if it isn't "real."

Well today is my lovely W birthday. She is 33 YO.

As I was leaving for work this morning I asked if I could give her a hug for her birthday. She kind of looked at me strange for a second and then gave me a nice hug while she was still in her robe and hair curlers.

As we seperated, I said "you still look beautiful, even in curlers". She gave a quick smile and went on her way.

It is so hard trying to give her affection right now since she doesn't really appreciate it or want it.

I'm sure if OM had said that she would be all over him.

Last night she babbled a bit to me. The dialogue went like this:

ME: Are the kids home on Friday?
WW: No, why are you looking to take a day off?
ME: Yes but if they are at school there is no point staying home.
WW: (IN SARCASTIC TONE) Why don't you take it off anyway I'm sure you can find something else to do.
ME: What do you mean by that?
WW: I just said it.

That was a nice jab at my snooping tactics I guess.

I missed the oppourtunity to reverse babble again.

I will learn...

HTW.
It is amazing how the WS' try to throw the blame back on us for checking up on them. Mine loves to throw at me that I will "never" trust him again and how I screwed up by tapping the phone and having a recorder hidden in his car. He says I went against everything that the books told me. I just asked him "which books?" He didn't know. I told him that actually the advice was to check up on your cheating spouse as long as you need to to make sure the affair is over and that the lies have come to an end. I told him that checking on him is my way of learning how to trust again and as long as everything comes up innocent the better I feel. I also invited him to check up on me as much and as often as he wants. I have nothing to hide and everything to gain. I also reitterated that the affair was my enemy, not him. I will fight the affair with everything I have. I also told him that I still choose to love him.

<<<hugs>>>
loni

Loni, that is a great statement and I would like to use it if you don't mind.

Good luck in your situation. Don't give up.

I am thinking of emailing the OM with the following letter. Is this a good idea?



OM,

I would like you to know that I love my W dearly and I want my marriage to survive even in spite of the A between you both.

By continuing your relationship with my W you are contributing to the destruciton of my home and family. I don't want my young son and daughter to be part of a broken family and to one day find out their mother had an A with a co-worker.

I know what happened on the 4th floor of the parking garage on October 7, 2005 and will do whatever is required to protect my marriage and my family.

Sincerely,

ME

Tes, I would send it. You might also add that you have the entire thing on tape.