[/color]HTW,

I saw you say this on another thread, but thought I’d respond here.
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You said, "My WW has absolutely no remorse with her A and said she wanted to hurt me. I can think of other ways to hurt me so I think that is just an excuse."
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At one point my FWW said the same thing! It was her ultimate display of anger toward feeling neglected. Pure revenge. She told me that her feeling neglected was the real reason for her waywardness. She told me that she wanted to hurt me in the worst way possible. It worked. Of course her rationalization could all be residual fog chatter.

To hear another man’s WW is saying the same thing makes me think that maybe WW’s sometimes do this to act out in anger. They are acting out. Our MC told us that she believes this was exactly the case for my FWW.

It doesn’t change the approach to reconciliation. It just put a slightly different spin on the whole mess in my mind. She still loves me or there is no way in the world she would be going through all this crap with me.

Keep your chin up pal! We’re all routing for you.

Best of,
Plank.

Great posts everyone. I have listened to the same fog induced lines from my own WS. He hates all of this stuff and tells me that I need to quit leaving all this junk around the house.

Keep strong and you can find your way through the fog. Listening to these wise and wonderful friends here will be the light for you to follow.

God Bless
Loni

Weekend update...

We spent most of Saturday cleaning the house, something my WW has really neglected in the last year or so. She spent almost all day in the kitchen cleaning the cupborads and behind the applinances. I helped do some of the heavy lifting and mechanical stuff. I was cleaning another part of the house.

She complained how she hated our kitchen and that we were living their 6 years and still no backspalsh (a shot at me). She did a super job with the cleaning and I gave her some admiration by saying "you must be exhausted because you did a super job and the kitchen now looks like new". I also asked her if she wanted me to ccok lunch on Sunday so she could relax a little. These are little things, but they are all part of Plan A.

In the evening we cleaned up some more. I vaccuumed and she cleaned the bathrooms.

On Sunday, I cleaned up the basement which looked like a disaster area with all the kids toys. She had said she wanted to clean it up so I took the initiative. My WW purged out the closet. Then we had lunch together as a family and my DS tried a few of the jokes I taught him on his sister.

In the afternoon my WW wanted to go pick up her new fall coat and asked me if I wanted to come with her and the kids. I was suprised she asked and said yes. I was surprised because a few days earlier she said she wanted to spend time alone with the kids this weekend.

We had a nice time at the mall and she was excited to try on her coat. She asked how it looked on her and I said she looked great.

We got the kids icecream and returned home for dinner. During dinner we were having some wine and then she asked "what is your favourite item in this house that you wouldn't want to part with". I knew where she was going with this (spliting assets) so I just said I don't have one. She told me it was our bedroom set.

She was playing video games with my DS and then he said "dad can you come and play with me". My WW replied "I hate when he does that" and when I asked her why she said "he always wants to to stuff with you and not me". So I told my DS that it wasn't fair to his mom when he wanted me to play with him while his mom was already playing with him.

She worked out in the evening and I put the kids down for bed.

This morning I needed to know so I asked when her last contact with OM was. She said it was on the 13th of Oct and then I asked a few more questions. Finally she said to me "I like the way you are interogating me".

Then she said "so I guess you don't want to try what the MC discussed" to which I replied "what is that". She said "living seperately". I replied "my only goal is to have a better M where we are both happy" and left it at that.

So we almost made it the whole weekend with seperation talk, but I guess it was bound to happen. I want her to know that I will not participate in something that will destroy our M and family.

Plank, can you tell me when you FWW started warming up to you and how long from D-day and NC that was? I'm glad to hear other BS experienced the same kind of babble from their WW's.

My WW seems like she will never warm up to me again. It feels hopeless much of the time. When we touch accidentally in bed, she quickly pulls away. So when I hear of similar stories that eventually worked out it gives me some hope for my M.

Thanks for listening everyone...

"During dinner we were having some wine and then she asked "what is your favourite item in this house that you wouldn't want to part with"."

A: You.


What you probably would like to say but shouldn't: "You. In fact, I love you so much that I am actually entertaining the idea of remaining your husband even after you lied to me, betrayed my trust and actively pursued sex outside of our marriage. You have set a terrible example for the kids and you really need to grow up and think about your family. Do you have any idea of what this has done to my self-esteem? Sometimes what you think you want isn't as important as your responsibilities."

It is going to take time for your wife to process her emotions. I think I would expect to be dealing with this withdrawal for months not days.

You know Hope, I can't imagine a MC suggesting a couple living apart unless there is extreme turmoil for the children, continuing affair, or violence. To me you want to keep the family together. If you separate them, separation can get to feel comfortable after a while and sometimes it makes it more difficult to get the couple back together.

Keep fighting to stay together. I'm just wondering from her comment if she was looking for you to say you wanted to separate? It was almost like she was looking for validation. So don't give up. The more you fight for her, the more she knows you love her.

[quote}
What you probably would like to say but shouldn't: "You. In fact, I love you so much that I am actually entertaining the idea of remaining your husband even after you lied to me, betrayed my trust and actively pursued sex outside of our marriage. You have set a terrible example for the kids and you really need to grow up and think about your family. Do you have any idea of what this has done to my self-esteem? Sometimes what you think you want isn't as important as your responsibilities."

It is going to take time for your wife to process her emotions. I think I would expect to be dealing with this withdrawal for months not days. [/quote]

CN, would I have loved to lay that on her. If she only knew how much I really love her and what this whole process is doing to me. Certainly, if it wasn't for my love for her, I would have left by now since this could be classified as cruel behaviour on her part. I just keep reminding myself that it is probably fog talk from my WW and not my W talking.

I am really starting to understand why many BS have likened Plan A to a doormat. I will need a deep wash once this is all said and done <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

If withdrawal is going to take months as you suggest, I really need to hope NC is maintained and that she lays of the seperation talk. That will buy us some time to get her through withdrawal.

She will be transfering offices in a week so that will make contact with OM even more difficult, although not impossible.

Her mother and both brothers have come out and asked her point blank if there is another man and she has lied to them in the face by saying NO and blaming it on me what I did or didn't do.

I wonder what she is thinking now that I have proof and when asked has lied to her family while looking at them in the face.

Askme, you may be right about the validation. Although sometimes I think seperation may help, I have to quickly remind myself of what I have learned on these boards and keep fighting against it. hopefully one day she stop bringing up the subject.

My WW said the this MC is first person who has sypathized with her. Go figure. I can't believe there are these type of MC out there.

I had an appointment to talk to a lawyer this morning about what to do if you WW decides to seperate, but I just couldn't bring myself to go. I'm not ready to start thinking that way yet and found just the idea of talking to a lawyer put too many negative thoughts into my head.

As many of you who have been following my story know that these last few months have been the most difficult and stressful times in my life.

And with all of the pain, hurt and anger, comes questions and thoughts about why this is happening. Is this the price I am paying for neglecting my wife?

I find myself repressing all my hurt and anger. I can't deal with those things while I'm in Plan A. They are mutually exclusive. I need to get through Plan A first and then I can deal with those demons.

Hope,

Yea, I know that you love your wife. I can "see" that just by reading what you write. You know, you can hope that your wife keeps NC all you wish, but that won't guarantee that she does. It fact, until she changes offices, I would just be resigned to believing that she is still in contact. The guy can just walk by her desk and say "Hi". I'm not trying to upset you. I'm just trying to make you mindful that your wife isn't in her right head now and she can easily look you in the face and lie. You are just going to have go get through this time and wait for the transfer.

Do not lie for your W. If her parents ask you directly about her and other man, perhaps you can direct them to her. She holds the truth about her relationship. All you can do is make an educated guess about the status of her affair.

Plan A would be so hard to do. I'm sure sometimes you just seethe with anger. I hope that someday she thanks you for fighting for your marriage.

Have you stared working out at a gym? I know that lifting weights and running make my body look better. I feel better about myself when I am proud of my body. Perhaps this will work for you? It will also give you a chance to get away from all the drama for a while. It will give you a place to go when your wife is being especially vicious.

Take care.

Lef me first start by saying I have lots of time today so please bear with my excesive posting. I find it medicating.

CN, That is what I am hoping for. Sure she can still arrange to see him or they can talk on the phone or email each other, but it will be harder now. Maybe he starts seeing another woman and my WW finds out, that could change the whole dynaimics of this situation.


Her family is not naive and they know something just doesn't smell right. I have not come out and said an OM is involved, but they know I am suspicious since I exposed EA to them back in late July. She has denied this and argues they are only friends, but she won't be able to this forever if the A continues. I think this pressure from her family is helping.


I am more hurt that angry right now, but I do feel the anger starting overcome the feeling of hurt. I really get angry when I think she had a PA in our car that we use for family outings. It has the kids car seats in the back seat!


I tried using the treadmill and may start to do it more often. I consider myself in decent shape, but I would do it more to relieve stress and feel better about myself.

HTW,

I didn't want to hijack your thread so I put some of my timeline with time estimates here....

Plank's timeline for recovery

Best of,
Plank.

I aggree ComfyNumb,

That would be what I would want to say.

WOL

waiting, in one of your posts you mentioned that you discussed spliting your assets with your FWW right after D-day. How long did this last and what things did you notice that made you believe your M was in recovery?

HopeThisWorks

I think you have me confused with someone else.

I don't have a FWW or in recovery yet, although it would be nice. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> I wish I could help on your question though.

CYA

[quote
HopeThisWorks

I think you have me confused with someone else.

I don't have a FWW or in recovery yet, although it would be nice. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> I wish I could help on your question though.

CYA [/quote]

Sorry, that was "waitingpatiently" that made that comment.

I have followed your story though and believe you WW is in withdrawal.

Remember no ILY's or anything that she would deem clingy or needy. Just back off and do the small things that still show her you care (i.e. getting her a coffee, washing her car, some extra stuff around the house. etc.)

NC is critical, so stay vigilant.

You are making progress.

Thanks HTW for the vote of at-a-boy.

It is tough on the clingy needy stuff but that is what is needed. I have done way too much of that in the beginning although I am getting better. I still slip occasionally and say ILY at night before bedtime or a small kiss on the side of her face or head before I go to work with a simple nudge hug.

Man she is foggy today. Just left our office acting real indifferent. Ask where she was going and her reply, somewhere, she didn't know, maybe the house. It is so hard seeing her be this way.

Also, I think she is probably getting very little support from her family to stay and work things out. Her family did not even call me on my birthday last week. In fact, they have not even called me since exposure day (she did exposure to her family).

I feel like I am on an island by myself. I have you guys and a few prayer warriors, but that is about it. Hey, maybe I am not alone after all.

One good thing, I noticed she applied for a username and was on MB site last night. What she was reading was in the divorcing forum but at least she was reading something on the site. (If she is going to start reviewing the post on the site, should I be careful what I say or just let it all hand out?)

She was also looking at some Beth Moore stuff last night. Apparenty MC told her she thought a Beth Moore conference would be a good thing to go to. She volunteered that last night as we were going to bed, when I asked her if she found one she wanted to go to, she said, no. I asked why and she just said she did not want to go by herself, and did not want to be in a hotel room with another women at a conference. Babble I guess. I tried to listen and pick out the important parts, but it was hard.

Its funny you mention the car. I was thinking about that yesterday while reading your thread. I don't know how you can deal with sitting in the car, I would have sold it the next day.

The car will be going once all this gets sorted out. It is a HUGE trigger for me so I try to use the other car whenver possible.


Last night my WW came home from work and was in a sour mood so I just tried to avoid her for most of the night. Not that she was angry, just cold and withdrawn from me. I'm used to that now so I just gave her some space and did my own thing.

Although we still sleep in the same bed, there is no SF and not even any contact. In fact whenever I accidentatlly make contact with her during the night she quickly pulls away or asks me to move back to my side.

Well last night I was sleeping with my back towards her and I feel roll over and tuck her face and hands in my back. I didn't pull away, but I was feeling very anxious with a shortness of breath almost. Strange I know.

Well she did this a couple of times during the night. I don't know if she was dreaming or what was going on, but it felt good to have her so close to me. I'll see if this continues over the next few nights.

I guess this is what Bob Pure was refering to when he says the BS has to live off the crumbs of a WS during Plan A. This is so ture.

Not a good night last night...

We both went to bed and then she says she wants to talk. That it the first time she has said that in a long time and I knew it wouldn't be about how much she loved me.

So she tells me she is not happy, feels alone and wants to seperate. She wants to sell the house and share the kids.

I reply that I won't be part of anything that helps destroy our M or family, that the only goal I have is to have a happy and loving M and family.

She says then you want to do this through the courts? I said I want to rebuild our M!

She starts getting angry saying that we always do things my way and that I never take her into account. I just listened.

Then she says "why would you want to stay with me anyway after what happened?". I replied "because I care for you very much and want us to be happy together".

Then she said "you are going to hold this over my head". I looked at her very lovingly and said "honey, I forgive you, I forgive you for what you did". She got upset and in an arrogant voice said "I don't want your forgiveness!".

I asked about OM and if there has been contact. She said no and said this is not about OM.

There were some other things said as well, but these were the highlights.

I really get the feeling like this will not work. She just seems so focused on getting out and she makes me believe that it really isn't about OM.

She slept like a baby and I didn't fall asleep for another few hours.

She is really pushing the seperation talk and I keep pushing back. Eventually something has to break.

Any thoughts or comments are welcome.

HTW

My heart breaks for you. It is almost identical to my story, at least at this point. I feel the same whay you do. Keep Plan A going. It sounds like you are doing it as well as you possibly can. Keep trying to save the family and M.

IMO she it sounds like babble. Maybe someone with more experiance and on the other side of this mess can offer a better suggestion.

All I can offer at this point is prayer and encouragment.

God's speed and strength to your marriage.

HTW maybe some encouragement will help. 7 weeks ago I exposed. WWs response was to start contacting attorneys in prep for D. We hardly spoke for 5 weeks (in-house separation), then things started opening up a bit. Now she's completely different; open and eager to make a new better M. Of course we have a lot of issues to work out, but we will at least get a chance to do that. I hope this happens for you. You know your W best, I'm sure you'll continue giving it your 100% best effort. Best wishes.