Thanks waiting,

She repeated last night that she feels I am trying to make the kids love me more than her. I told her that that she won't accept my affection right now so it is going all to the kids.

I also told her it makes me happy to see the kids having a good time with her.

I Love my kids dearly and love spending time with them. Why does she have a problem with this?

I could feel the anger building inside of me last night when she was talking, but I ensured I did not LB.

Hard stuff this Plan A is...

Don't you think it's about time you expose to her family and friends and bubble her fantasy some more? Are you waiting after divorce to expose to them? If you expose now they can help bust the affair some more and make it possible and easier for you two to recover. Right now your wife thinks she can separate from you, be with OM, and share custody of the kids with you. You have to let her know that being separated and divorce will not be without its consequences. I think you need to put more pressure on her.

Have no doubt, she plans on being with OM after separation. It is up to you to do something about it. And when you choose to expose, do not forewarn her. You'd just be undermining your action. Expose to her family and friends today. Let them help her understand how sleazy her affair really is. Waiting to expose has not helped you one bit so far. Has it?

"She repeated last night that she feels I am trying to make the kids love me more than her."

Don't pay too much attention to her babbles right now. She is just looking for ammunition to use against you so she can justify in her own mind why she should be with OM. She just wants to go back to him. BSs waste their time when they try to parse the meanings and reasons of their WSs. Since she is in deep fog, I would not take her words too seriously.

Hope that just tells me she still feels she hasn't done anything wrong. She is still lost in the fog. She hasn't got it yet that she is harming her family. She is looking at the short term picture and not the long term solution.

UVA, I know I will probably get a 2x4 from many here, but I don't think further exposure will help right at this instant, especilly with her family. They are not stupid and smell something fishy. They have all confronted her about a possible OM and even though she lied to them, they still suspect OM.

They are already putting lots of pressure on her. Further exposure may stop all contact between my WW and her family and stop the pressure as well. When they ask me about the possiblilty of OM, I don't rule it out, but let them know that she is acting funny and something just doesn't seem right. So they keep putting pressure on her.

You are right about the babble. There is no point trying to put any susbstance behind it right now. It confuses the crap out of me though.

On another note, she stopped wearing her wedding ring back in late September and I suspect that is when the A was really heating up. She started wearing it again two days after d-day #2 (Oct 9) which also coincided with her mom giving her flack about not wearing it. She hasn't taken it off since.

The last time she wore her engagement ring was on September 23 (the day before her business trip). Well this morning I looked in her jewlery box and the engagement ring was missing. So if she is wearing it again, it would be the first time in over 4 weeks that that has happened.

I don't know if I'm putting too much into this, especailly after last night, but I will monitor it.

Hmmm...so she said it's not about OM...did she CLEARLY say "No, I've not seen or talked or had ANY kind of contact with him."?

To me, she sounds like she's had some sort of relapse of contact...the fog is deepening, not clearing.

Especially since she's wanting to seperate, etc...that's almost always a clear sign that she's got an alternate plan in place. Very rarely do you see someone who wants to seperate but does not have a support plan in place...and if infidelity is involved, that support is almost always OP.

Try asking her why she feels the way she does on some of this. "I don't want your forgiveness"...hmmm....why would you NOT WANT to be forgived? She's still angry, and still doing the best she can to make your life a sufficient HE!! that she'll convince you to give up on her and let her go live her life with OM.

I asked her if there has been any contact and she said NO.


I have no way of telling if she is in contact right now. Next week she will be transfered so it will be much harder to be in physical contact, but the emails and phone call will be very hard to detect.


She said she did this the A to hurt me so it that is the case whe probably doesn't want to be forgiven since it was a maliscious act on her part. I'm just getting very tired of this whole thing.

Based on your comment she had the A to hurt you, I almost think you ought to quit asking her about the OM. Continue to carry on the A plan, but don't discuss the OM or the affair with her. When it doesn't seem to be working one way, flip it and go the other. She doesn't want to be forgiven, don't talk about it. She wants to be asked about contact with the OM, don't ask. Make her wonder for a while what's going on.

Maybe some others can chime on in that thought.

It may be possible to track cell call numbers to/from.

Should I start preparing for Plan B since my WW seems bent on seperation. If she does leave of files for in-house seperation wouldn't that be the best time for Plan B?

I may start putting together a letter shortly.

Hope-

Man your wife sure is being crappy to you. Mine was afraid I'd hold it over her head too, but I don't.

Maybe you should tell her to "Go ahead and leave, you can explain to your folks and the kids how mommy has to leave because she likes to spread her legs too much." Yeah, I know it's a big-time LB, but that might rattle her cage a bit. My FWW basically collapsed when I told her that and reminded her there would be no more family trips, we'd never all be together on the holidays again, the kids would be alienated for the rest of their lives, etc. I told her that her a** was grass, that she was totally in the wrong, and that I'd push for full custody based on her "mental condition." She got mad at first, then realized I was dead serious and came around pretty quickly.

Being a bit of a "penis" at times seemed to help me at certain crisis points. You've tried for quite a while and I know her crap is getting old with you. Tell her parents about the PA. Screw her. They need to come down on her hard. Heck, tell everyone about it...she wants to share the news of her wonderful relationship, right?

Fog schmog. You've been a nice guy to long. Time to get ugly with a smile on your face. I love the MB philosophy, but I think you're getting pushed around. Go get her...can it really get any worse? You don't deserve to live like this.

I cannot make any sense of your logic. You are on the verge of separation and doing Plan B but yet you refuse to fully expose your wife's sleazy affair. There is no rhyme or reason to your plan. On your reasoning, the best time to expose will be after she separates from you and moves in with OM. This is absurd.

"I don't think further exposure will help right at this instant, especially with her family. They are not stupid and smell something fishy. They have all confronted her about a possible OM and even though she lied to them, they still suspect OM."

Suspecting and knowing are two different things. Read your own sitch and you'll see what I mean. You suspected something fishy for the longest time, but until you had proof of the affair, you were not really in a position to fully address the problems of your M. Only after you knew of the affair did you really know what you were dealing with. Similarly, your WW’s family may suspect something is wrong but until you provide them with irrefutable proof of the A they cannot bring the full ammunitions at their disposal to help your sitch. You should count your blessing that you have such in-laws and that you are in a position to use this exposure tool to help your cause.

"They are already putting lots of pressure on her. Further exposure may stop all contact between my WW and her family and stop the pressure as well."

They can put a lot more pressure once they know for sure of the A. And no your WW and her family will not stop all contact with each other after exposure. That fear is unwarranted as blood is thicker than mud. At most if there is a lull in contact between them, this will only be temporary. In any event even if they stop all contact that can only help your sitch. How? Because you WW will understand that others do not respect her actions and deem the A as the sleazy ordeal that it is. The more people who are close to her disapprove of her A, the better are the chances of saving your M.

I know that you insist on doing things your way, but as Dr. Phil would say, "how has that been working for ya?" You need to do the things that will give you a chance of saving your M, like exposing the affair to your WW's family and friends. Regrettably, your inactions as well your WW's actions are contributing to the demise of your M. In short, you are enabling the A by not exposing.

mflake & UVA,

I did tell her some of that stuff the other night and I hope it had an effect on her. I told her that the kids would NOT adjust to a seperation and that I could not "be friends" if we seperated.

If she is in NC and going through withdrawal, I don't think now would be the time to expose further. A WS going through withdrawal is hard enough to deal with, but adding exposure to the fray doesn't make sense to me right now.

She is not fully committed to the M yet, but she hasn't left either. I know she is talking seperation, but that could be driven by her withdrawal symptoms. Remember she has only be in NC for just over 1 week.

I don't have any evidence that she has broken NC. Next week she transfers locations so contact with OM will be only possible through phone or email (or arranged contact).
She doesn't go out at night and the only time contact may occur is during the day.

I may be wrong, but I will give it some more time.

Exposure is a tool that is used to put pressure on an active affair. It is not a tool for retribution. It is not a tool to hurt or embarrass your spouse.

If your wife has ended the affair, no further exposure is required. If she hasn't then I would give her parents a call and ask them if they can help their daughter stop her damaging behavior. I would tell them that she is having sex with another man and you have the audio to prove it. I would tell her brother. Maybe he can have a little talk with this guy. Maybe he can tell him that he doesn't appreciate anyone helping his sister act as a [email]wh@re.[/email] If her brother is really large, this may prove to be a very powerful behavior modificaton techinique. I know if someone was messing around with my married sister I would love to educate the man a bit. Verbal only. I mean that.

Your wife cannot change what she has done. She can, however, stop doing it. I hope for you and your kid's sake, and her's too, that she stops this behavior. She isn't going to find what she thinks she needs through an affair. I know this, personally.

If she is telling you the truth and she did this as some kind of punishment . . . that is a pretty low . . . and pretty stupid too. It is like putting out her eyes and saying "ha you have a bilnd wife, take that." I think your wife really needs to spend some time on a shrink's couch.

CN, this is exactly why I do not want to further expose right now. I do not want to punish her or embarrass her, in fact I have already forgiven her for what she has done even though she is unrepenting. This was done to help me heal, not for her. The last thing I want is to hurt my W.


I am closely monitoring what she does and if the A is ongoing I will call her 2 brothers who have already let me know they would like to "TALK" with this guy. She has given me her word that she will stop all contact. I know her word doesn't mean much right now, but committment has to start somewhere. I am just being very vigilant and monitoring her actions right now.

She can't even look at me in the eye right now and it seem as though it is hard for her even to be around me. I am just trying not to pressure her and keep myself busy.

She has straight out lied to both her bothers when asked if OM was involved and I'm sure that is adding to her guilt right now. Might be why she want to get away from everyone.


Amen


AskMe said his FWW felt the same way. I don't know why they feel this way, but it may be some kind of get even for what was or wasn't done in the past.

HTW,

We are in such similar situations. Your strength is your biggest friend right now. Continue. You'll learn more about yourself and all your relationships through this time. There is always a lesson to be gained from every challange in each of our lives!! Fear not the future, my friend, for life is meant to fullfill dreams!

I think that you are doing great. You seem to be following your heart as well as the tried and true advice from these experts. I wish that I could use my inlaws as leverage for the A to not begin again. However, I have 3 teenagers who have told their dad and the OW that they won't tolerate a relationship between them and that they hate what he did and they will never like or accept the OW in their lives. I think that is as much a deterrent as he needs for right now. And since my WH can't have her and his kids then he is left with the option of staying married to me. Not his first choice, but I know I am his best choice.

I can live with this right now because I know he is just the "alien" pretending to be my H. he he he.

Loni,

I do't know your story but I wanted to comment about something that you have written.

"And since my WH can't have her and his kids then he is left with the option of staying married to me. Not his first choice, but I know I am his best choice."

You have the option of allowing him to remain married to you. That is a position of power. Don't forget it. Don't let him forget it either.

I know that Plan A, if that is what your in, makes you feel like a doormat. Remember, you do these things because they have proven to work most of the time. You don't do them because they make you feel good (they don't). Playing the loving-devoted wife when someone has been so disrespectful is about the last thing that you are going to want to do. But it is the result that you are after. If Plan A helps your H find his way back to his family then it is worth doing. Do it until you can't stand it. Then do it a bit more. Someone has to be the rational adult. One day he will thank you. Really.

Just made an appointment with Steve Harley for tomorrow morning. I need to a good plan to help me proceed at this ciritical point.

HTW I hope you'll be able to report SHs comments?

I think I understand your thoughts about waiting to expose further. Been there. On this thread you'll get lots of pressure to expose - from very experienced people. But they don't know your WW or your sitch like you do. You have to make your own decision. In my case my analysis told me it was best to wait a bit and see which path WW would choose.

Unfortunately my WW chose the wrong path, and I later decided to expose. But I don't really regret giving her a little time and the opportunity for her to make the right choice - even if she chose wrong. In my case the delay didn't cost much. And I feel like a better man for giving her the chance to come around before I took the next step.

In your case what's the cost of delaying? Suppose you take a risk and delay a bit, but then WW does not come around. Then later you might have to expose further. You are in the best spot to understand the risk. E.g. could that extra bit of time be the critical factor in cementing WW's relationship with OM? What are the other risks? If the risks are small, it may be worth the risk to wait a bit. If they are large you need to further expose right now IMHO. Others may differ...

Edited to add: My delay decision was based in part on my belief that WW was in NC. That part turned out to be untrue. Also based on the belief that OM wasn't that interested in my WW - that was true. If I'd been wrong on that assumption it would likely have been a terrible mistake to delay.