That's the one. And the next too. Terrific. I'll hang in there if you will HTW.

I'm not giving up yet, that's for sure.

The only constant through all this is my love for my W.
That is what has kept me going and continues to do so. I think of how it could be as a happy family and it gives me the motivation I need.

This is the hardest thing I have ever had to deal with and has taught me soooo much. I only hope that I can incorporate what I have learned with my W in a recovered marriage.

I envy all of the BS who's WS repented immediately and agreed to work on rebuilding the M. This route seems so much harder, but if it works will be rewarding.

Right now my goal is to avoid any talk of seperation. It seems it has come up way to often over the last 2 weeks. If we can get through a month or two with no seperation talk and hopefully some improvement in the R, then we may be on the right track.

Whenever she bring up the S work, it stops me in my tracks and I feel like we have taken 10 steps back.

I'll keep being a broken record.

One other thing Steve said...it is rare for a W to divorce a nice guy. So time to notch up Plan A.

I think I missed something. What softened her heart?

(Sorry to TJ HTW). Points #1 and #2 in HTW's note a few posts above. I improvised adding a bit from Owl and aussieswife praising our newfound humility, willingness to work together, honesty and openness and reassuring WW that I will continue to work on the M as long as we maintain those attributes.

Not sure that's what did it, but anyway my WW was quite a bit softer after I sent that note to her. (Thank God I didn't send the scathing 1st version; sending that one would have been a huge LB! It's so hard to be humble in the face of belligerence.)

Thanks much.

Well things seem to be going from bad to worse.

It seems with each passing day my WW is more and more determined to end our M. She just seems to have made up her mind and I don't think anything will change that now.

Last night she brought up the idea of seperate bank accounts again and the R-talk started.

All my faults and ways of how I neglected her came out again. She feels I never did anything to show her that I loved her and her feelings for me have died.

Just so much pain, anger and resentment on her part that I don't think anything will change her feelings.

I basically validated her feelings and then we talked about how hurt I was by her A. I told her I don't know if I can take anymore of this.

She said she was sorry for the A and there is NC, but she keeps saying it isn't about OM. At this point I really think I believe her.

She said she doesn't want to hurt me so then I replied "You told me you had your A to hurt me and now your saying you don't want to hurt me". She said that she wanted to hurt me for how I alienated her family and reported her to her work. I don't really buy that.

I just feel so tired of dealing with all this and trying so hard while she keeps moving further and further away from me. At this point I don't even thing Plan B will have any impact. She just wants out and to be alone.

She doesn't even want to try.

I just feel it might be better, especially for myself to seperate and go on with my life. Every morning brings the same pain, the same hurt. It's a downhill ride that won't end.

The feeling of trying so hard to win back someone's love and getting nothing back but coldness is so dispairing. At least if I were alone I wouldn't have to deal with this every single day.

She can deal with her own problems and try and live on her own to see how she likes it. All the little things that I do she doesn't even notice or care.

Come to think about it there are alot of things that bug me about her.

Since her job requires that she start early and finish later, she can make her own arrangements to deal with the kids during these times instead of me or my MIL.

Maybe she can deal with all the other non-romantic stuff that I do for her like, paying the bills, getting dinner ready, cleaning up, maintaining the cars and house, and just being there whenever she needs me.

She said she wants to spend time alone with the kids so last night she tells the kids to come with her and play while she uses the treadmill. And then she has the nerve to say that I am using the kids against her.

I know I have my faults, but just because some [censored]**** starts giving my WW compliments and treating her nice is no reason for her to submit to an A.

At work all they see is the best of each other. Dressed nicely, smell nice, no kids, no chores, no rushing to do things, no bills,...just fantasy and she fell for it.

If a romantic life is what she wants and she is not willing to try it with me then she can try on her own.

I am just getting really fed up and need some sort of normalcy back in my life.

I need control back in my life and that is why Plan B is looking really good to me right now.

She said she wants us to be civil once we seperate, well she can be civil all she wants, but I will not be part of that with her. I don't expect her to respond to Plan B so in my case it will be a way to put closure on this mess.

No kids birthday parties together, no attending any functions togehter with the kids, no spending time together with the kids, nothing. That ideal kills me, but I couldn't stant to see or talk to her knowing we can't be together.

She wants me to sell our house and move to 2 different houses so the kids won't think she is abondoning them. I am not selling this house and if she wants to move out I will buy her portion out. She thinks that is mean on my part, but I don't care anymore.

My kids will be devastated. Sure they will probably eventually adjust, but it breaks my heart to know what this will do to them. And it is like she doesn't care about that even saying "they will adjust" and "they'll be OK".

I am always thinking that it can't get any worse, but somehow, someway it does. Is there any end to this slow dive into the abbyss?

Sorry guys, but I am just pissed off today!

This is pretty much how I felt this morning, after catching WW in a lie yesterday through cross checking what she had told me. However, I'm going to keep at it for the moment. Still Plan A'ing for myself and for my kids.

Hope it gets better for you.

HTW

I know your frustration. Just as you have told me. It is fog talk. She is an alien at the moment. In her right mind there is no way she would want this. Re-evaluate in the light of day to see if this is what you want. (moving to plan B)

Your pain is very real and noticable in your post. I am praying for you.

What's her rush? If you are to seperate, it doesn't have to be this week, or this month. I don't think she can provide even one very good reason for rushing into it. And your children are 2 very good reasons to give it time.

HTW,
I'm catching up on your thread. Sorry this is such a rough time for you. If you go to plan B will she leave the kids behind? I'll post more later.

Hang in there.

No. She wants us to sell our house and move into seperate places and share the kids. I want to split the assets and stay in our house and share the kids, but she feels by doing this it would make the kids feel like she is abondoning them. You don't say.

I'm just getting so tired of all this.

I am thinking of asking my WW to leave our home and seperate since I don't think I can handle this much more. The last few days has really taken a toll on me and I'm loosing my love for her quickly.

My GIVER has been severely abused and my TAKER wants out.

Her coldness and distance from me is becoming harder and harder to deal with. I need to preserve whatever love for her I have left.

How can she treat me so awful. The person who loves her them most she hates the most.

This is so sad and painful.

It's interesting how this comes up. On the second nite after d-day, when my wife was living in a motel near the airport here so that she could fly away to go live with OM, I found that I couldn't sleep. So I wrote her a letter, telling her exactly how I felt about a LOT of things. (It was a LB in all kinds of ways...it had some good in it too, but a lot of anger and hurt and blame in it for sure).

In that letter, I listed a BUNCH of things that would never happen if she got on that plane to leave me to be with OM. A lot of what you listed here are the same things. I told her that while I understood she wanted us all to be good friends when this was done, that just wasn't possible. Because I would be so hurt and angry with her anytime I saw her after that that there is no way I would ever be able to stand being around her...I'd be so bitter with what she had done to me that there is no way I'd keep ANY kind of relationship with her. And if she was EVER foolish enough to bring OM within arm's reach of me...well, not much more needs to be said there.

On the day she was supposed to fly, I had an epiphany. I really do think it was answered prayer. I didn't sleep at all the nite before, just cried and prayed. Didn't ask for my wife back...I just asked God to make happen what He wanted to happen, and to give all of us the strength to see it through, no matter what it was. I got dressed in some nice clothes, drove to her motel room, and called her on her phone and asked her to open the door. She was shocked...she had no idea I knew what room/motel she was in.

She answered the door, and we had our first real conversation since d-day. A large part of her anger that morning was over me delivering her this 'ultimatum'. She was angry with me, and upset that I wouldn't be there for any family event at all that she was at if she went to be with OM...NOTHING. She told me that doing so would be my choice. I didn't argue with her, but I could tell she was finally realizing that it wasn't my choices...it was repercussions from her OWN choices.

And it was right when she was going through all of this that OM called her, and broke it off with her since he could tell she was STILL undecided...even after he'd spent the entire night on the phone with her talking about what it would be like when she arrived. (YUCK!!!)

You know what my friend...don't shield her from the repercussions of her own actions. Let her know up front that you won't be part of her twisted vision of a three way family...you, her, and OM. Make her understand and face CLEARLY what she's about to lose if she makes this choice. I did...and yeah, it was probably a big LB, but at the same time the fantasy of the life with OM started to tarnish a little right there...because there was too much truth in that letter I gave her that she COULDN'T deny.

I told my wife pretty point blank..."I'm going to either fully in your life as your husband, lover, and best friend, or I'm not going to be in your life at all. Your actions will choose if I'm part of your life or not...but you need to clearly see what the results of those choices are going to be."

Don't know if this pertains for you or not, but it's something to consider. I didn't lie to my wife about our future...I told her that as long as she didn't get on that plane, everything was forgiveable and repairable, but if she got on that plane and left, she was going to END what we had forever in any way, shape, or form. There was no way she could twist what I said into a better picture for herself.

Now, the good news is this...she didn't get on that plane, and I didn't lie to her. I've forgiven her completely, we've repaired a LOT of the long time damage in our marriage, and she's not living a life where she feels like I'm holding the past against her, which was her greatest fear in staying.

Owl, the thing I have working against me is that I feel my WW has already given up on our M. She has stopped wearing her wedding ring and wants out of the M.

Last night she told me she wants me to go out so she can be alone with the kids. She just doesn't want me around anymore. She has no love for me and that hurts like crazy.

So apart from being a LB'er, an ultimatium won't work in my case. She would be happy not to see me.

The way I look at we need to seperate before I can impliment Plan B so I may just go ahead with the seperation and then immediately impliment Plan B.

SH said I should continue to fight against seperation, but it is emotionally draining.

I can't believe she would do this to our kids!

I am also considering a seperation, waiting a while 2-3 months and then Plan B. What do you think of that?

My FWH took his wedding ring off 2 months ago. He said it didn't fit, it was too big. We've been married 17yrs, he hasn't lost weight. At first I was really bothered by it. Then I realized he wore the whole time the A was going on and it didn't stop him.

Have you done any 180's in your plan A? My FWH was very disturbed when I started doing things for myself and not going out of my way for him.

I agree with you that it is time.

HTW you know I'm on your team. But I have to ask something. It occurred to me that on other threads BS think of Plan B with regret, it seems like they're usually sorry that many months of Plan A haven't worked, and have a lot of regrets that they need to Plan B. Please don't take offense, but your note above reads like you may be considering Plan B out of anger? Or out of motives other than last-ditch. Are you thinking about this right? Maybe take a few more weeks to give Plan A time first?

wnh,

I can't deny that my anger has been increasing over the last few weeks. I think it is a result of the ineffectiveness of my Plan A on my WW. Basically I am giving all I've got and all I get back from WW is crumbs. I feel as though I am being dragged into the state of withdrawal with her.

I know the concept of Plan A is to give without any expectations in return. But after awhile it really starts to wear you down, especially when your WW seems so determined to end the M and seperate. I'm not dealing with a cake eater.

She is withdrawing further and further from me each day and I have a sense of hopelessness regarding the situation.

I spoke to my brother last night and informed him of my situation for the first time and he made me feel better. He has a 11 year old daughter with severe cerebral palsay and told me "we all have our crosses to bear, this is yours". So that put in perspective for me.

I also spoke to my parents last night and they were very supportive of me which helps alot. It seems I am getting support from everyone except my WW.

I've been talking alot about Plan B and I think it has alot to do with the deterioration of my situation. I need a break from all this drama and the only way it seems is through Plan B.

I just find it really hard to detach lovingly from my WW.

SH said the A is a secondary issue so I will try to contiune Plan A for as long as I can. I just don't know how long that will be given my current emotional state.

I don't understand my WW sometimes. She's cold and distant to me and then last evening she packs me a lunch while making the kids lunches for today. Does she do this to torture me?

She is not letting me meet her EN's and she is not meeting my EN's. How long can this last?

I keep looking for signs that she is coming out of the fog, but I don't see any.

I miss the days when things were normal in my life...

Well it happened for us, and I think it will happen for you too. It's been just like the experts here say; almost imperceptible change in WW's behavior and attitude, but over the days the changes add up. Then one day she's playing remorseful Eliza Gilkyson music. I'm no expert, but FWIW I say keep suffering through Plan A. It will get better. If not there's plenty of time to Plan B later. Be strong!

What kind of changes did you notice form you WW and when did they start?

I am looking for hope even in the smallest forms.

What really takes the wind out of my sails is when she brings up seperation talk. That puts us 10 steps back in the process. I wish she would stop that talk.