Well unlike your case, there wasn't much communication between us to there weren't many insults or good signs either. But maybe some tiny small signs of progress.. I can't remember what they were. Her making your lunch sounds like a good sign.

The really perceptible change followed my unintentional 180. I just got p*ssed - maybe like you are - and shut down on her. That was 6 weeks after exposure (edited to add AND NONCONTACT!); I'd just gotten disgusted with her attitude and was frankly ready to D. It was not a Plan B; it wasn't plan anything and I didn't intend a 180, it just came out that way. Stopped talking to her/smiling at her. Walked out of the room when she entered. Went to my room, shut the door and sulked like a little kid. And I bought some divorce books.

I think that worried her. She flipped over within a week, and became caring and solicitious. But I wasn't ready. After 3 weeks I was ready and became more approachable. She then backtracked a bit, (kind of a dance?) but we were on the way towards recovery, or at least some sort of relationship. Maybe.

I don't recommend this approach, it just happened that way for us accidentally. Too risky. If my unintentional 180 had happened too soon, - e.g. before NC or before WW felt some remorse - we'd be in D courts now. Besides nothing about this should be unintentional. I did not handle it right.

2 x 4 TIME !!!!

Lately I have been contemplating whether or not I truly want to make a continued effort to recover my M. My WW seems so intent of seperating and destroying our family. I am emotionally exhausted and feel abused. The little things that she did that didn't bother me a few weeks ago, are now starting to annoy me. The thought of her with OM are wreaking havoc on my mind.

So I have all this hurt, all this pain, all this anger.

Meanwhile...at work I have been spending time with a co-worker on a major project...a woman!

She is bright, kind, interesting, nice, young, good looking, single and enjoys my conversation and company.

You know where I am heading.... swing 2 x 4 now PLEASE!

Now I can understand why my WW may have been easily attracted to OM when our M was void of what she needed.

When I talk to her she actually smiles at me and laughs at my jokes. She admires the work that I do and asks me quetions about myself.

These are all the things I am currently lacking in my M and it feels good to have someone fill them.

I know, it's the fog, but my self esteem has taken a beating and she makes me feel good about myself again.

Why am I tormented like this?

You don't even want to go there Hope! But I understand why it's on your mind.

WHACK !!!!! (2x4) Don't do it HTW. I understand. Believe me I understand. I work in an office with many young and very attractive females and it would be easy, but don't do it.

You will hate yourself for it. (If nothing else, think of it like this, it will always be there (it being another relationship) if your WW does not come around. That may not be proper on this post and may not be MB advice, but at least realize you will have other chances with someone else if your wife does not come to her senses.

You are too bright, and clear on the results of actions if you follow through. You are at risk right now, that is for sure. Hold on buddy.

Slap yourself, get a cold glass of water or something. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Your friend, WOL

Hey!!!!!!!!!! Knock it off! We're a team here! I also, have someone who is interested in me, sort of, but NO WAY! It's so hard, buddy, but from what I hear, IT IS THE WORST THING YOU CAN DO!! You'll think you'll feel better about yourself, but you won't. If you want a good relationship, it'll come from your W or someone else, AFTER YOU HAVE WITHDRAWN FROM YOUR WIFE!!!!!!!!!!!

8x8>>>>WHACK!!!!

Now that's a real PLANK eh?

HTW don’t let it happen!

Quick story.

When I was married previously my XW was wayward and I didn’t know it until the last five weeks of the M.

I had plenty of opportunity to shag and have a good time. One of her girl friends found out that the XW was cheating and called me up to “console” me over the issue of the impending separation/divorce.

When I met her, the mental basket case that I was, she put some serious aggressive moves on me. I was shocked and totally rejected her advances. I was just not in any mental condition to mess with her. Yep, she was a hottie too.

I got on my motorcycle and left abruptly.

I never took my wedding ring off until the judge rapped the gavel. And yes, I was faithful till the bitter end and then some.

Stubbornness is genetically ingrained in some of us.

And you know, looking back on all of that I find a great deal of self satisfaction that I never became weak. I was strong and retained every single bit of my self esteem. My dignity was still whole.

He!l, at the time my XW was even encouraging me socialize more. She had herself a little secret.

You’ll feel better about yourself in the long run HTW. Not to mention that you have worked so damn hard at this and you don’t want to be one of the horribly guilt stricken ONS WS’s here saying it didn’t make you feel better.
<pant>

I had to get that out quick before I go to bed, but you know what to do. Besides, if you did end up D’d then at least you know where there is a nice young hottie to have further relations with. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> That woman at work would respect you more in the long run.

You’ll have way more to offer a woman after you’ve cleared your head from all this elephant dung.

Be strong,
Plank.

HTW,

I know exactly how you feel. It really stinks when your EN's are only being met by the nice guy that sacks your groceries or the pizza guy. All I hear from my WH is threats, justification and character assination.

But, thinking about a 4th party does nothing but confuse issues. Plus, I keep telling myself I could never respect someone who would date me now, as I am still married and I do not want to date an adulterer (WH hates it when I say that!)

Just keep your eye on the prize, your self respect and integrity. If the M doesn't work, you will know that you did all you could. And with the pain of adultery, could you really respect someone who would go out with you right now?

Hope:

Looking back on my case, I too was falling out of love with my wife. I told the MC that in front of my then WW. The MC corrected me and said, "did you mean you are falling in love with your wife?" and I said no, "I am falling out of love with her". It was that day too that I told my wife, in front of the MC, to make a choice. Choose him or your family. This ultamadum happened as a result of the OM pulling into the parking lot of the MC to let me know he was still in the game for my wife.

On the way home, my then WW called me and said she will give her two weeks notice to quit her job and make a real attempt to rebuild our marriage. Quitting her job eliminated any Contact with the OM. She did quit and two weeks later, withdrawal started, and the roller coaster ride of recovery began. All the stated steps were needed to begin recovery though. The other life of the WS has to stop cold to even allow for the reconnection with the BS. If you give her an ultimadum to quit the affair completely and do a real Plan B, it will conclude your daily pain. It could also force her hand to begin the rebuilding of the marriage, or you could lose her completely. That is the risk of Plan B as is well stated by Dr. H and the other Plan B experts on this BB.

Reality is, you can't keep living the way you are. You must put your foot down or nothing will change. The BS has to make the bold choices and take bold actions to stop the selfish actions of the WS.

I would like to hear others reinforce my thoughts or to advise otherwise.

TooSoon

HTW,

I'm not going to swing a 2x4 at you. I know how much you need to have your EAs met. That is why they are "NEEDS". Another woman will meet some of those needs but not all of them. Just like your WW. I can't stress enough to not even go down that road. The heartache you have now is enough and you don't need to give your WW ammo to use against you. Remember, you are the light for her fog. Keep the wattage at full strength.

I know how you feel, though. I find myself looking at other men and thinking that they might make a nice boyfriend. I haven't gone there and I won't because I intend to honor my marriage with fidelity even if my WS won't.

As for Plan B...
I personally have decided that if I find evidence that the A has started up again, then I will proceed with Plan B immediately. That is what works for me since I have been in false recoveries at least 3 or 4 times. I won't do another and that is my own personal line in the sand.

Here is my best advice for you...(take with a grain of salt since I am currently forging my way through HE77).

Disconnect from her as much as you can. Withdrawal is something that she has to go through and it is awful. Misery loves company and she will happily make you as miserable as she can so she doesn't have to suffer alone. Take care of you!!! You are the only one who is taking care of you right now. Don't expect anything from her except meanness and when she isn't mean, you will be pleasantly surprised. Go out with friends. Get a massage or a new haircut. Hey, try both, what the hay! Treat yourself like you want to be treated. Your taker will be somewhat appeased and you will have an easier time putting him in the back of the closet when she is around.

When she is around, be your best Plan A self. Your giver will be strong if you take care of your taker in other ways. Physical affection? Get a bear hug from your 3 year old. Conversation? Call an old friend and go out for a beer. Your needs are just as valid and important as hers. You can't ignore them and expect them to go away. She just can't and won't meet your needs right now. Don't expect her to. Remember that she is an alien right now and doesn't know the first thing about caring for anyone or anything other than herself. Her taker is in charge.

Please be strong. And, please take care of yourself. The anger will only fester in you and hurt you.

Hope this helps.
<<<hugs>>>
Loni

Loni,

Your are great. I love your advice. HTW, pay attention to what everyone is saying here. Stay away from the road to an affair yourself. Do what Loni says. Find other ways to have your EN meet. Heck, I find myself petting my Yellow Lab more and more. At least she loves me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks everyone for the 2x4 whack to the head!

Although the situation that is presented to me is tempting, I really wouldn't get involved with an OW right now.

After the pain and betrayal that I have been through, I wouldn't want my worst enemy to experience this pain.

It wouldn't be fair to the OW, my kids or myself and even my WW. I just have too much to deal with right now than to get involved with this. My thinking is clear on this issue so no need to worry.

As for the weekend, well noting out of the ordinary happened so I guess I would consider it a success.

No seperation talk, no R-talk, and continued Plan A.

On Saturday I offered to make lunch on Sunday so she could spend time alone with the kids. She took me up on my offer and spent time playing with the kids while I made a mean tomato sauce dish. No compliments from her though.

Even though I try to do things to help (i.e. give kids a bath of clean up the house, or make lunch), she still finds things wrong with what I am doing. I feel like I can't win no matter how hard I try. This must be part of the WW character that focuses on all the negative things of the BS.

She is still cold and distant and doesn't converse with me. I feel like I am a piece of the furniture sometimes around her.

This morning I said bye to her as I was leaving for work and she didn't even reply. This gig isn't easy.

Hi HTW,

I feel for you, I really do. I was so focused on my WH for a long time. My moods were dependant upon whatever mood he was in. I would become depressed when he was quiet and moody. I would feel joy whenever he was cheerfull and optimistic. It's a hard way to live. It was hard enough for me to handle my own feelings about the A and the junk that went on around it. I just couldn't live with mood swings that didn't come from within me.

I am so much happier and more positive now that I am living my life for me. I am taking care of me and I am doing a fine job of it. Please take care of you. It's hard at first because you want to just work on the relationship all the time. But it is necesary. You have to be a whole person at the end of this. Either for her to be married to or so you can enjoy your life even if she's out of it.

I wanted to babysit my H all the time. I felt like I could control him cheating on me by being with him. That may sound good but no one wants to be treated like a child that needs to be watched all the time. I made myself into a nervous wreck and it didn't stop the affair at all. Now, my feeling is that if he is going to cheat, I will find out and deal with it. That is his choice and he is the only one to make it. Even if his choices have been pretty poor, I can't make him do a blessed thing.

I like the advice that I was given and it seems to be working for me. Pull a 180 on her. Make her wonder what you are thinking or doing. Worse case is that she won't care. Best case is that she might pick up the slack and start doing things to get your attention. Either way, you will be happier because you are enjoying your life.

Lots of Hugs
Loni

Hi Loni,

Well I have actually started doing some things for myself. I have bought some new clothes that have boosted my self-esteem and I am excersising more.

As a BS we become so focused on the WS that we loose focus of the other things that make us happy as well. My main priority is recovering my M, but that has taken from other things that I like to do. I'm trying to get back to those things but as you know it is not easy.

As for the 180 stuff, well I've been busier at work so I am coming home a little later than normal and I am dressing better and taking better care of myself. I don't know if she notices or ever cares but I'm doing it for me.

I don't know if she is still in contact with OM. All I can do right now is stay vigialant and try and hold off her seperation talk so I can continue Plan A and if she is in NC, wait for the fog to slowly clear.

I feel so much better that I told my broher about this. He is supporting and helping me so much just like he always has and for that I am so grateful. He is doing what a big brother does I guess. I am so lucky to have him there for me.

My goal for this week is no R-talk or seperation talk unless she brings it up.

HTW

You are getting great advice. Keep it up. I know it is hard. Heck I am trying to impement too.

I started a diet today and told WS I wanted to run this afternoon. She seemed curious as to why and I basically said I was tired of feeling out of shape and tired. Don't know why she is of any concern, but she was.

I am also trying the 180 approach. Not all the time but some of the time. It is pretty amazing the reaction you get. It is like the fog clears for a few seconds.

Keep working hard for yourself and your marriage. You will feel better in the long run.

After all, aren't feelings what we are all about anyway? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

HTW,

I was thinking about you and your situation earlier this morning and a light bulb went off in my head.

There may come a time in A burdened relationships where I BELIEVE you have to say it’s my turn. I’m not talking about a R with another woman. I’m talking it’s your turn to be ok. You have to do what’s good for you. You have to take care of yourself. You have to allow yourself to be happy. Your taker has to have some satisfaction or you’ll implode at some point.

You seem to making some steps in the right direction with your attitude in the last week. I'm happy for you to see that.

Since I never did darkness, I don’t know if this is the point of it. It would seem so from what I’ve read from BS’s post that are still in A combat. I guess it gives your giver and taker a break from the WS all together while it also ends the cake eating.

And we all know not having your cake or eating it too just downright sucks and turns an A into an actual RL relationship!

Oh the horror of it all.

What's the situation on exposure now? Still doing surveillance?

You think maybe that’s why Harley has the time limit on plan A? He must know that there is no way you can be a healthy person going through the bullsh!t for very long.

I wish that you could tell us that she’s said anything that would give you a glimmer of hope. Has that occurred lately? I haven’t seen you talk about anything good.

I do know that you’ve been at this for more than three months. Stay strong!

Still saying prayers for you and your family,
Plank.

Plank,

My TAKER has been locked up for much of the last 4 months and my GIVER is being abused. If this were a 12 round heavy weight fight, I would say I am in round 8 and have lost all rounds decidedly.

I am finding that the longer I go the harder it is to continue a strong Plan A, especially when there are no signs that things are turning the corner. I haven't really had any glimmer of hope that my WW is softening her stance.

In my session with SH last week he asked what my energy level was. He only recommends a seperation if there is abuse or the BS is loosing their love for the WS. My LB for my WW is draining but I still love her and want to recover the M. If she only knew.

Things cannot continue like this for much longer so there will come a point where going dark is the only option. I will need it to save my sanity and self respect.

I need to recharge myself now that my WW claims to be in NC and she has only been there for 3 weeks. She has transfered office locations so I hope this will make contact that much more difficult, although not impossible.

SH said to keep the exposure card in my back pocket, maybe for use during Plan B.

All I want is a glimmer of hope right now to give me that extra energy to keep my Plan A strong. I haven't seen it yet but I keep looking.

Draw energy from us my friend! Don't fear the future. Dream!! It is what life is about. Live for the present. If you're the lighthouse or the pillar, that is a admirable attribute to have in the presence of your W, and is a strong tool for healing as well. We are all up and down. Your ups will come soon enough!

Hey Hope- it has been a while but I just got caught up with your situation (I am actually losing sleep now!). Been real busy but can't pull myself away from all the drama here completely, and just wanted you to know you were in my thoughts.

My dad once told me (after a bad breakup with a girlfriend): "It's nothing a blond with big tits can't fix." He was half joking of course, and totally unapplicable to your problem, but it's funny to me. If you get a chuckle, it's worth it.

You've been dealing with this for a long time. Too long. The stress will kill you eventually. Are you going to stick it out with her for a few miserable years, hoping she'll come around and be there for you? Or will you be over 40 with a quickly shrinking number of options for a life partner?

You're the kind of guy who needs that partner as much as any of us- I can tell by the passion with which you're attacking this problem. Your wife is very messed up. Maybe you need to tell her to hit the road? That would be a sharp contrast to your Plan A behavior. My wife knew that anything short of repentance and work on our marriage meant she was out (the work part goes for me too, of course). She knows I meant it when I said it.

I am very much in agreement with the MB philosophy, but a guy like you shouldn't have to be tortured indefinitely. Don't fool with the girl at work (my cousin just did that, BIG mistake!)- just tell your wife to head out and think about what her kids will think of her FOREVER if she makes that choice. I wish I could give her a good wake-up smack for you...

For the hopeful: My FWW and I just ended MC and she ended IC (about 5 months of each). I still spy on her pretty relentlessly and she has been good. I hope to quit it someday. She asked me if I trusted her and I said: "As far as I can see you." She said she understood and cuddled up next to me anyway...on the balance we're having a great time. I hope all of you who are struggling can get to this point as well.

HTW:

If your wife remains distant with you and you state she does and if she is not laying around in mourning and depressed for losing the love of her life, you must assume she is still seeing and talking to the OM.

After DD, my wife continued to work with her OM and even though we pretended to try and reconcile our marriage, it never got any better. She remained distant with me. I finally insisted she make a choice and her choice was to quit her job. Once she quit all contact, she went into heavy WD.

Your WW is still actively wayward, I am sorry to say. When contact ends, recovery will begin, but not until.

TooSoon

mflake, good to hear from you as always. I did get a chuckle from your dad's joke and there probably is some truth to it.

Yes the stress of all this is getting to me, but I have become better at detaching from it, although not completely.

I woke up in the middle of the night and just watched my WW sleep for a few minutes. She was so peaceful, so beautiful. Why does she become the cold and distant alterego when she awakes? I don't know why, but I still love her very much.

I understand what you are saying about getting tough with her, but she has already made it clear she wants to leave, so that would only give her the excuse to do so. I can't keep this up forever, so I may be forced to do that for my own well being.

Now I have a problem. My WW just informed me that she has to go to OM office location to introduce her replacement to all the workers there. She told me that her boss has asked her to do this and will be there to. I felt really hurt when she told me of this and told her I felt hurt when she see OM.

Assuming NC was in place (which I can't confirm) this will take us back to square one. This is so frustrating.

I don't think I will ever make any progress with this recovery.