Mel, I'm really starting to appreciate your way of thinking more and more. If I suggest this I don't think she will go for it and may just decide to stay put. Here is why...

1) She wants joint custody of the kids
2) She won't leave without splitting assets or some furniture
3) The only place she could go without the kids or money would be to her parents place.

What if I suggest this and she angrily rejects it which I think she will. She will say something like "I won't leave without the kids" or "then I'll just file and have the papers sent to you".

How could I respond to that?

Also, I am really afraid of going to Plan B.

Hope...I apologize for not responding to your question sooner but I was away for the opening of New York's deer season all weekend. I wish I could say that I have some ready for the freezer but I do not. First time in about 13 years I did not get one on opening weekend! Oh well...

Hope...yes, my xw and I plan on remarrying in the pressence of our two best men (our sons) when we vacation in the Bahamas this winter. Understand sir that our story was difficult to live through. My knowledge of her affair, her past actions still devastate me when I think of them. You also need to know that I am pretty certain that we would have never gotten back together unless I did a "modified" plan B. What was modified was we were divorced and I was a lost , devastated soul. Until I just stopped letting her get to me, in fact I ignored her. And I went on with my life. Made new friends. Dated but nothing serious until it almost a year (I met someone who was special to me, I felt alive again). I just started my life over and I was OK with what ever happened...I really was. I actually did not understand why she was sooo unhappy...she got everything she wanted...the kids, the house, the money, her divorce and me gone...and she was miserable...and I was doing my best to be positive...I changed and she was angry..angry that I actually did change and "someone else was going to reap the benefits...not her"....I really did what I said I would when I was begging her for a new chance...and she said all those things...it did not matter...it was too late...blah...blah...

So...I really think it is Plan B time for you...you need to not let her ruin you...and that is truly what is happening. You're dying...I know...I did too. She also said she would never leave...she would pay me for everything I got my car...guns...snowmobiles...and that was it...I was to leave...and when i did not....divorce action with order fo protection...I lived in my SUV for a night!!! Seriously considered offing myself the second night in a hotel....yet somehow..it came to this...

I wish you luck in this...I feel pretty strong that it now needs to be "about you"....

Hope, I would explain to her that the kids won't be leaving their home, nor will she will be taking furniture. Does she really want to explain to a judge that she wants to rip her kids from their home so she can carry on an affair? Visitation, sure, but not custody.

Also, how will she pay for her apartment? She will still have to pay the mortgage, bills, child support, etc. How will she do this?

Hope, I think that Plan B would be a huge wake up call for her that might very well pull her off the fence. I don't believe she has considered all the consequences of leaving. She is under the impression that you are willing to faciliate her affair by helping her leave and even lending her equal custody of the kids, which will help "normalize" her sleazy behavior by adding a false air of respectibility. Heck, she even thinks you will split up the household contents with her! Wihtout a fight! With the kids in tow, she can pretend like she isn't being a shabby mother.

Hey Hope, just wondering something......IF you decide to do a "Plan B" as has been advised by some here (and for the record would be my choice if I were you) WHEN would you do it?

What are your thoughts on this considering the holidays...this may work to your advantage.....I truthfully don't think you are gonna get a "lightbulb" moment here. Your lucky than most as your WW's family has been awesome here......I hope and pray you are "lining up the ducks as we speak"......

Lem

Well it certainly looks like my WW is feeling guilty about her leaving and me staying in the home. She brought it up again last night and asked me how I would feel to which I told her I would never abandon my family. That didn't go over to well with her or course.

She keeps trying to spin it her way.

Then I told her if she is obviously intent on leaving, then maybe she should do it now before the holidays since the day to day torture is wearing me down. I told her she could visit the kids whenever she wanted.

She didn't like this at all and told me that I am being mean and that she expects me to punish her for leaving. She also said she would never agree to me having custody of the kids.

She said where can I go without any money. I told her to go to her mom's house. She didn't like that either.

She said she can't get over her lack of feelings for me and the things I keep doing. Specifically she was refering to my continued snooping and exposure. She says just as things seem to be going better you tell my family. What she really means by "better" is that I was leaving her alone to continue her R with OM.

So it looks like she is staying put for the time being.
Really, I am feeling better about myself and don't feel as anxious about her leaving. I know what I have to offer and if she can't see that then it will be her loss. My first priority would be to recover my M, but I'm starting to feel that I will be fine if she doesn't come around.

This morning I had a long conversation with her mother who told me she spoke to her priest at church who would like to see the both of us. I told her I would love to go but I don't think my WW will be willing.

She also provided me with some additional detail on the family meeting. Apparently her brothers let her know that they will be monitoring her and if they find any continued contact with OM they will bring it to her company to have them both fired.

My WW also complained that I spent $180 per session for coucelling with SH. When my MIL heard this she put the screws to my WW by saying that it was money well spent and that she knows my WW drops hundreds of dollars on clothes at a time and asked her what was more important.

They know they can't change her feelings, however they won't condone her actions.

My MIL also said her youngest son wants to talk to me. He is the one child who hasn't blown up on my WW and so she feels somewhat safe with him. He may want to get my side of the story now.

So what do I do now? She won't leave until after Christmas at the earliest. I will try to continue my Plan A for a little while longer.

Hope this is the point about making her face the reality of leaving. She needs to clearly see the reality of her choices.

What will change after Christmas that will facilitate her leaving? How will she have money AFTER Christmas that she doesnt have now? I don't understand why she won't leave now. Do you?

Did you explain to her that she won't be taking the kids? See, I think you need to make these things clear to her and ensure that reality is not going to change between now and post Christmas. You are not going to finance her move or allow her to rip the kids from their home after Christmas...or ever.

As far as "mean" goes, isn't it "mean" to have an affair, lie, and rip apart your marriage and children's family?

Talk her into leaving...talk to her about the freedom she will have to do what she wants, to do what will make her happy.

I disagree with Mel, I think it is A-OK for you both to talk about some fo the the 'things' she can take...that extra TV downstairs, the fold-out couch in the garage, etc... Nothing that will cause undue harm on the family.

Let her know this move or separation is just temporary, just till she gets her feet on the ground, just till she becomes established, then you can both work out custody...don't make any promises about custody later...but you are HOPING this is just temporary,a nd hte custody you mean is JOINT custody with both of you living as man and wife under the same roof...

It is possible to do an in-house Plan B. There has been much back and forth discussion about this on the forum...some say you can, some say you can't, that it needs to be a complete break. I have read a few cases where SH has recommended an in-house Plan B in a few cases...it is possible.

Do you have plans for another phone session with SH soon?

I agree with this. My only concern is her desire to start breaking up the home by taking essential pieces to feather her pad. That will make it hard for you and the kids and make her feel more secure in her new pad. Give her a few lawn chairs and some sleeping bags. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I do think it is a good idea to have another session with SH and get his input. Personally, I am horrified at the prospect of an in-house Plan B, because it is almost always a nightmare. It usually ends up with the WW feeling entitled to live an openly single life right in full view of the whole family. So, I would not consider that option until all other avenues have been exhausted. And you haven't even really tried those avenues yet.

...and a bug zapper for a lamp.

My H has been out of the house for over a month and he didn't take anything...but the computer (good thing the kids each have their own...we are a geeky family). I have offered to give him spare furniture, but I think he likes the sparse surroundings...I thought it was because he wanted to live life as a monk, make life miserable for himself, but now I realize it is because he thinks this is VERY temporary (wants to move back in next month because he ran out of money).

SHE is the one unhappy living with you...it is up to HER to find surroundings that will please HER. But she is NOT entitled to live at the home unless she is willing to work ont he marriage. You can explain this is a pro-marriage zone, and only positive pro-marriage values and activities will continue there...if she wants to worrk on a separating, it is time for her to get her own place so she can build a life the kids can visit and eventually sstay over at...and she will need a place the OM can visit too... Tell her she can think of it as a hotel they don't have to rent by the hour any longer...

Send me, sounds like you have been through the ringer and back. It amzazes me how BS's put up with so much crap and for such a long time. I'm glad things worked out in your case. I don't know if I could go through all that with my WW, but I do know that I will never go through this again. If it happens, it is over whether it is with a reconciled M with my W or someone else. If I have to go through this again it WILL kill me!

Mel, the whole thing with the kids and splitting assests is a sticky one. If I play hardball and she files for full custody I could loose EVERYTHING. My WW is not a terrible mother (except for the A), in fact when she is with the kids she is a good mother. From my understanding custody battles are settled through an outside mediator that see who is the better parent (i.e. feeding, providing, shopping caring for kids). They also look at who the kids are more attahced to. My lawyer said the courts don't really consider A as a deal breaker unless they lead to the children's neglect.

My WW does all these things and both my kids love their mom. If it went this far I could loose them completely and I don't know if I could survive that.

Lem, your are right, the "lightbulb" moment won't happen with my WW and I am preparing for Plan B.

SHMI, last night was the first night I suggested that she move out. I may continue to propose this idea and "enforce" her desire for freedom. Hopefully, she will bite and decide to leave. I will not do a Plan B while living the same house. That would be just crazy.

My MIL wants me to keep trying, however I told her this ordeal has probably taken years off my life and is slowly killing my love for my W. I feel bad for her since I know this is really getting to her. She told my WW that if she is alive when the kids get older, she will reveal what she has done to them and her family.

I find that I am starting to focus more on the negative aspects of my WW character and behaviour. I don't know if that is my fog clearing or what. I now realize that she wasn't the best wife either and that some things she did bothered me.

Hi!
Ive been reading up on your posts ,and so far you have recived excellent advices from people.
But however i think is time for you to ask your self the
qustion Whats init for me??...If nothing else to protect
your own sanity..Besides her behavier towords you,

Strongly suggests that the affair is still going on.

probably mostly by phone an IM..so far

I hope am wrong.. but anyway.. you have handeld your self far bether then a ever did...

/Marcus

Hope, wait a minute. If you are afraid she would get those things via a potential LS, why are you not afraid to hand it all over without a fight? huh? I am not getting your logic here. She has not filed for seperation OR custody and it most likely won't come to that. You should hand over nothing and make it clear that the kids will not be ripped from their home without a fight.

Nor should you assume that any court is going to award an adulterous mother full custody of her kids. Fathers do have rights too.

Don't make it easy for her to destroy your family. It is up to you to defend the destruction of your family.

MAKE THIS VERY CLEAR TO HER, ok? It is imperative that she know that you are not giving up the kids and not giving up any furniture. She must know that you will not make it easy for her. And don't bring up any legal aspects of that. If she says, "I can get custody." Tell her you hope it never comes to that and refuse to discuss it. Let her DO ALL THE WORK! Understand?

p.s. I think you should continue discuss moving out before Christmas. SMIH had some good suggestions. Since she is not working on the marriage, she is not entitled to stay there and put you through daily ******.She really is eroding any love you have, Hope. It is time for Plan B.

MEL, I forgot to mention something in my previous post. Previously I told my WW that I will not agree to a seperation and she told this to my MIL. Then she told my MIL that if I don't agree to a seperation she will just file and stay in our house for the year. I think after 1 year then the courts can split assests.

I don't know if I want a WS in my house for another year. How can I go to Plan B in that type of situation?

MEL, I need to know where I a going with all of this. What is the plan here?

I know if I tell my WW that she needs to leave now without the kids or furniture she will spin it and I will start to look like I am kicking her out, especially to her family. Don't you agree?

And if she decides to suck it up and stay because she has no where to go, it will make my life a living nightmare.

She could file for LS and we could live in the same house. That would not be beneficial to anyone.

I understand that I must defend my family, but I'm trying to look at what the consequences might be.

I need help with this.

Yesterday my WW called home at about 3:30 and left a message. When I got home I did *69 and found out she was calling from OM office location.

She was supposed to be at her new office location. When she called at 6:30 to tell me she is on her way, I must of sounded upset and she said "you sound mad".

Well when she got home she said "I don't want lie to you and want to let you know I was called to OM office for an emergency in the afternoon". So she confessed but I don't know if she is telling me the truth about the reason.

I came really close last night to just saying "I'm sick of your sh1t, just leave me alone". I didn't of course.

Hope, your W says lots of things, it doesn't mean she will follow through. That is why it is a good idea to never make plans based on what they say, but on what they DO. Talk is very cheap with a WS.

Make your plans based on REALITY instead of the fogged out threats of a WS.

Further, you don't seem to be getting something important here: she does not need your "agreement" to seperate. All she has to do is walk out the door. You are not her daddy.

It doesn't matter how she spins anything, Hope; you need to stop worrying about that. How can you "kick" someone out who is intent on leaving? It was HER idea to leave, remember?

Hope, what time would she normally leave to come home? Is 6:30 something outside of the norm? Does she normally call when she leaves late? Just looking for the odd behavior. I know WS's sometimes make those calls when leaving the OP so they can make sure things seem ok before they get home.

Hope,

ML's advice is about the same as what I've been trying to tell you...quit worrying about WW's plans...start making your own, and sticking to those. Stop REACTING to everything you wife does, and start ACTING according to your own plans.

It will slow down the rollercoaster a bit for you, and help you out a lot in the long run.