Protected? Hhhhmmmm?!?! Not quite sure what protected is, as if it was ever really protected. Is any marriage ever really protected, in a sense where we know with 100% certainty what our partner is going to do? I doubt it. But to answer your question, I have learned a very valuable thing during all of this. And that is that I dont really need to trust my wife, I dont really need to know for sure if she is still onboard. Why? Because during that 3 year ordeal, I was taught that the only way to make it thru this...shoot, the only way to really make it in this life, is for me to rely on Jesus. I am protected not because of who my wife is or anything that she does...I am protected because Jesus has my back. While I would never want anyone to have to go thru what I did during this, I also have come to thank God for what He did with this. I really doubt I would have ever gotten to the point of trusting Him and relying on Him as I do now. What do they say...God plus me is a majority!


Oh, you KNOW the answer to that! Harley has this written all over his website even. Of course I dont know if she will ever do this again. I mean, I never thought she would have done this in the first place. What I do know now is that she is CAPABLE of doing this. And you know, that doubt is actually good to an extent. It keeps me from getting too comfortable. From not paying attention to the state of my marriage. It comes me on the straight and narrow. Mankind's tendency is toward doing nothing. What I mean by that is that left alone, we would eventually do nothign at work, nothing for our spouses. Without a accoutability, without the paycheck...without even the threat of losing that paycheck...we might never do one thing at work. Same thing goes with this! While I do the things I need to do because I enjoy it and I love my wife, at the same time, I could very easily fall back to doing the bare minimum...and even less so. Knowing that my wife is capable of this helps me understand that there is a line that she can be brought to that might cause her to leave. It is that line that I never want us to get close to again.


Nope. There are still times of doubt. There are still foggy times where my wife will sound like when she was in the affair. it doesnt happen as much now. And we are all much better at handling those times now.


They did a lot during it. And I had them in counseling, they were (and still are) going to church. We talked a lot and I explained pretty much everything about what their mom was upto, what God's standard is, what I was trying to do. So, as things happened, they already pretty much knew why and what it was. Now? Nothing about any of that. I am sure there is some doubt in the back of their minds. But they see my wife and I together a lot and acting like we used to. And they have definitely settled down, are less emotional. They got what they needed and wanted which was their family together. They are spending a lot more time with my wife, and she with them. She doesnt hide out at work anymore, but instead has begun to really re-engage her relationship with them. And as parents, we have again become one voice when dealing with the kids (which frustrates them sometimes <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />).


Of course. All of us do. it is unavoidable. but we also have learned so much. The kids have learned valuable lessons about marriage, family, commitment, faith in God. During all of this three years, two of my kids went forward and accepted Jesus and were baptised. You are a doctor, right? Well, I have heard that scar tissue is much tougher than the tissue it replaced. I have heard that when a broken bone mends, it is much stronger where it has been repaired. Well, the same goes here. While it has left scars, I am also finding that this has made all of us (including the kids) much stronger.


Many days, there are fleeting glimpses or a little voice in my head. Or my wife says something, or is outwith a girlfriend...and I wonder if there might be something going on. I know it is Satan, though. He is attacking me, making me doubt God. Notice I didnt say doubt my wife. With what my wife has done, I should doubt her. But since I decided to rely on God for my protection, then there was no reason (except for the lies of Stan) for me to worry about that. Sure, I keep things above board. My wife lets me know where she is going. When she notices somethign might not look quite right to me, she'll go out of her way to explain. She'll ask me if it is okay if she goes out with her girlfriends after work. So, I have to give her credit for helping me stay ahead of the lies. Of course, a relapse is always possible. But each day we move forward, it appears that it becomes less probable.


I am human...and these things do come in. I wont lie to you. And there are no guarantees in life. Except that I do I have the promises of God that He has my back. That doesnt mean my marriage wont end. He does allow free will. but it does mean that He has my back, which means that for my wife to cheat again, for her to try to divorce, would mean that she isnt just fighting against me...she is fighting the God of this Universe. So, I can sleep hard at night. I can feel good about things in the morning. My trust is not in my wife...it is in God. And He has never failed me. Never failed to take a situation and turn it in my favor...in my best interest.

I hope that answers your questions.

In His arms.

Mort:

Thanks for answering my questions. Your answers make "sense" to me, and have helped me to at least understand how you have been able to do all that you have done. It gives me a different perspective of seeing all of this. That is good, I am eager to learn.

I can understand your "scar" analogy with your kids, and I can see where you could take it as a good thing in the end.

As always, that was a very insightful post, and I thank you for taking the time out to answer my questions. I am 100% positive that others will also glean some knowledge from it.

Lem

Saying again for the zillionth time, I sooo much agree with and value your POV...

"On Christ the SOLID ROCK I STAND. All other ground is sinking sand"...

Thank you for being such a BLESSING to me and others....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

By no means is anyone thread jacking so please continue to post as I am finding this insight extremely beneficial.

MM, thanks for joining in on the discussion. I have always found your story compelling and your actions the true defenition of charcter. I don't think I could ever put up with or go through the things you did.

When I originally exposed back in late July with the encouragement of people like Mel and SHMI, I hoped the EA would end, but my WW denied, denied and denied and it became a PA. One of the things that also motivated me to expose was your story and how you created a crisis for your WW whenever you could.

Although exposure has not ended my WW A, it has inflicted a significant wound and may ultimately speed up it natural death. My WW has told her family that the event of her and OM in her car on Oct 7 was a mistake and one time event. She has told them the R is over, but they are very skeptical and have told her that if they discover further proof that it is ongoing, she will be abandoned by them. My BIL himself said to me "I want you to know that I will take steps to find out for myself if she is still involved with OM and that she will have to get a restraining order against me if she shacks up with OM. If you get any additional information come to me first".

I have been in Plan A for approximatley 5 months now and the situation has not improved, my WW's A has progressed and she is very close to leaving. My Plan A and exposure have not killed the A as I had hoped they would and it looks like I will need to resort to Plan B in the very near future.

I'm on the home stretch of Plan A and haven't yet figured out how I will transition to Plan B. I will not do an in house Plan B so I will either wait until my WW leaves or ask her to leave and then slap her with Plan B.

Really my WW has not been an absentee mother so fighting for custody will be extremely difficult. She has carried on her A during her working hours. Although she leaves for work earlier than me and returns later, she never has left the kids at home outside of work to see OM.

I talked to my lawyer and he said the courts in my provice don't care who is at fault or if someone had an affair. In custody battles they look at who provided for the kids (i.e. fed them, took them to the doctor, bought groceries, etc). Since my WW was on maternaty leave for two of the past 5 years, she defenitely did most of that and still does alot. If it becomes a custody battle a mediator will be called in to see who should get custody.

So when she tells me she will accept 50/50 custody and wants to be the primary residence for the kids, I think (maybe mistakingly) that it may be the best I will get.

If this turns ugly and she gets full custody, I won't be able to deal with seeing them only a fraction of the time.

This is one of the main issues I am struggling with right now.

I'm actually feeling alot better today for a couple of reasons.

First, I was approved for the refinancing of my mortgage should my WW leave and take have the equity.

Second, the mortgage specialist is also a BS! He went through the same thing all of us went through and we will be going out for a coffee soon. His M has ended and he is now friends with his XW. She actually asked him to take her back after 5 years but he wouldn't do it because of the A and says he can't trust someone after that kind of betrayal.

His wife was a manipulator, just like my WW and he also became a "yes honey", just like me.

He really has come a long way and highly recommended a weekend self improvment seminar called the "Landmark Forum". It focuses on improving relationships, increasing confidence, making a difference and adding joy to your life. Has any here or that you know of taken this seminar? I am strongly considering it. He said it has changed his life.

Hope, can I ask why you are talking about custody arrangements and refinancing? This is not your problem. You are not in court mediating custody or assets. So what gives?? Why do you keep doing this? This is up to your W to settle since she is the one who wants it NOT YOU. If she initiates any of these actions, then you certainly have to defend yourself, but I would caution you again about handing anything over to her that would help her destroy your family. Make her do all the work.

Do what it takes to defend your family from her and don't help her. And what difference does it make if she "wants" to be the "primary residence?" Tell her YOU want to be the primary residence. She is not entitled to it.

You seem to be under the illusion that if you don't hand the kids over to her umimpeded that she will get "full custody." Nonsense. If anyone is likely to get full custody, it is you.

Mel,

I see what you are saying about not making it easy for my WW to seperate and that she needs to do all the work.

If a WS interprets this as a method used by the BS to trap the WS could it make it worse and build further resentment towards the BS? I think I already know what your answer will be, but let's hear it anyway.

My parents are now telling me that maybe I should just get this over with so I don't loose my mind. I don't want this and have explained that to them. I guess they hate seeing me go through this.

It's a good day today, I'm feeling stronger and more confident. I'm not sure why I feel this way, just hope it continues. All the recent posts have helped immensely.

“His wife was a manipulator, just like my WW and he also became a "yes honey", just like me.”

Welcome to the club. Does that make three of us in this local chapter now? LOL.


I have no earthshaking advice, just prayers and some observations (Ok, I admit, and an opine or two). But I mainly want you to know, hope, I am praying for you and your children a lot.

I understand your fear you will lose your children. I had the same fear. It is overwhelming. Way more debilitating and an impediment to action than any fear of losing the WW.

I found out when FWW left after DDay 2 that if she was out of the house for more than 27 days the courts here would affirm abandonment and I would automatically get full custody. So, try with all your might to get her to leave. Let her take everything, including the house if you must. Just don’t you leave or let her leave with the kids.

But that was not the only bright spot in our separation. I turned it into a modified Plan B after I found MB. Not having to deal with her during that awful stage was a definite plus. You will fairly quickly become much calmer and self assured and clear thinking. It is amazing the peace that a good Plan B can bring to a tormented BS. Dr H knew what he was writing about.

Document everything. Talk to your attorney. Even though you are in a no fault system, most judges and guardian ad litum worth their salt consider active WS to be detrimental to children’s welfare.

IMO, this is still not too late for a traditional Plan B. Your WW knows what she is doing, fog or not. She has her own plan and it makes sense to her and OM. You can make it fruitless for her though. If she leaves without your kids she will lose even that EN. OM hasn’t a chance in that case. But, you may not want her back by then, you know. Your LBank appears very low. That’s quite alright, though. You tried very hard. You did well. You can already say you fought the good fight. But now I think you are entering the harming yourself stage.

Hope, your marriage is over. It has been over since the A started. Even if she were to shed her scaly WW skin tomorrow a marriage with your W now depends on a clean and certain break with your previous marriage. She must do the work now. But it appears obvious she won’t – not for the foreseeable future.

I always thought it was a PA, BTW. And even now I think there is a lot more to the PA you don’t yet know about and never will. But now it is time to recover a real life for you and your children. Let her go (without the children) into the dark of a good Plan B.

With prayers,

Edited to fix a missing negative.

Sometimes I just think you ought to put a speakerphone right there in the room with you and your wife and call up the OM and say, "I want you to come get my wife right now and I'll even pay ya to take her since you wanted her so bad". You know he will turn you down. Men like to hunt, but they don't like to be handed someone. And when he turns her down, you know it will just blow her out of the water. It's not something I recommend, but I know someone who did it once and he even started upping the offer on the money and the guy wouldn't come get his wife. I think he went up to $4000 a month. In the end the wife felt right humiliated that the OM wouldn't have even have come gotten her for free.

AskMe,

Actually, that's pretty close to what I did when I confronted OM after DDay 2. I told him he could have her (no monetary inducements though - he's already wealthy) if he wanted her so much. He cut and run as fast as he could. Left me holding the bag, as it were.

At the end of our little tête-à-tête he shook my hand and thanked me for being so civil. I felt like I had just closed a dubious used car deal.

Added: I washed my hand three times before I left the building. True, I really did.

He was so dismissive of FWW, and this after a ten year LTA, I knew it would hurt her terribly. I could not bring myself to tell her until well into recovery.

I wished I had told her sooner, though. It finally brought withdrawal to a thundering close.

HTW,

quote:-------------------------------------------------
You will fairly quickly become much calmer and self assured and clear thinking. It is amazing the peace that a good Plan B can bring to a tormented BS.
-------------------------------------------------------

Being currently in PLAN B, I'll second Aphelion on this one!

Aphelion, you always know how to cheer me up <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Really, the longer this goes the more I'm looking forward to my Plan B even though it may mean having no contact with my W.

Yes, I would agree that I'm entering the harming stage now. My TAKER wants out. My WW doesn't look as appealing as she did, even from a few months ago. Maybe my fog is clearing. Although I still love her, I look at her as a selfish, decieptful, liar and adultress now. I don't want to be married to that person, she is not my W anymore.

My W was simple, loving, committed to her family. I loved her dearly.

My WW is superficial, uncaring, and unfazed about destroying her family.

Okay, I have a slightly different tact on this.

First, I am almost never of the mind to have a BS force the WS to leave. At least not overtly! I believe that until you actually want a divorce, that you should ALWAYS be about the marriage. My favorite line I always gave my wife was "I am not goingto talk about that. If you want totalk about our marriage, then I am here. If you want to talk about divorce, then call my attorney." I do marriage, my attorney does divorce.

I do agree with what Aphelion said (mostly). I think you probably need to create a crisis. One that causes your wife to do the crazy things WSs do, and will help you with custody.

But I will say this...if she leaves, she leaves on her own! You do not allow the children to leave. Did you hear me? You do not allow the children to leave! That is their home, as it is yours and your wife's. If she chooses to leave, she leaves on ehr own.

Melodylane is right...if you talk about this stuff with her, then she is negotiating her way out. Only talk about the marriage!

You are going to have to fight for your family here. Yes, she was at home with the kids. So was my wife. She was a SAHM for 8 years. Yes, she is a female, which gives her the advantage. Which is why you document everythign now, and make sure you are the end-all-be-all for those kids. Some WWs call it being a SuperDad. Havent you read on here "Oh, sure...now you want to save the marriage. now you are being SuperDad." Be SuperDad.

There is an online book that you can order that helps fathers get custody of their kids. It was very good and helped me. I will have to find the website. But try this one, as it has some good stuff on the front page: Father's Custody

I hate it when guys give into the threats of their wives when custody is concerned. "If I dont take 50/50, then I wont get to see them at all." Bull pucky! My wife told me days before the court hearing that she was "under no illusion that you will get custody." Even the day of, when we sat down at our tables, she came over and said that she would liek to come get the kids clothes after the hearing...assuming that she would get custody. These were all forms of intimidation! And she should have known that Mortarman cant be intimidated. As a matter of fact, I take intimidation as a challenge!

You only lose if you dont fight! do what is right for your family, your marriage and yourself. Get the goos on your wife. Shoot, if she wants to carry on her adultery during the day, then be there when she does. Nothing dampens the sex drive than to have your husband show up at the motel when you are trying to get it on!

Make her uncomfortable in the affair. But at the same time, try to meet her needs. And, get with your attorney, draw up the paperwork and tell him to prepare to launch. As soon as she walks out, you have your attorney file.

Like I said, you have to get smart about this stuff. Dont assume your attorney will do everything you need to. And dont assume that you wont get custody. Most guys lose custody because they dont know how to fight, or just wont!

You want help as you go along, just ask. But dont you back down from saving your family, nor protecting your kids.

In His arms.

“Although I still love her, I look at her as a selfish, deceitful, liar and adulteress now. I don't want to be married to that person, she is not my W anymore.”

As Christ says, you may need to love her as an enemy.


“I'm looking forward to my Plan B even though it may mean having no contact with my W.”

Actually, it means NO contact with WW. You will need an intermediary.

The hard part here is getting her to leave, not you, without your children. Think some on how to accomplish that goal.


“My WW is superficial, uncaring, and unfazed about destroying her family.”

And she may never recover from her self immolation. Remember, you cannot control her or make her think. She will have to think and stand on her own. Almost time to let her go.

With prayers,

PS: Say, HTW, what I really want to know is what are the knock-knock jokes you told your kids back on 8/04/05? I’m always on the lookout for a good knock-knock joke.

This is the MB way however other have taken the approach of forcing the WS out of the house and it has worked. Personally I am not comfortable with that approach since it conveys to the WS that the BS has given up on the M and that they are justified in wanting out. The only problem I have with this is how long can I go in this current state without loosing all my love for my W? BTW, I have said something similar to my wife when I told her "I do marriage not seperation".


Any suggestions?


She has me believing her wanting to leave is not about the OM. When I say she can't leave without the kids she throws it back in my face and says things like "how could you use the kids against me" and "I knew you would punish me and be mean to me" or "you can't keep the kids from me"


I can do this and have done so for the most part, but what if she files for LS?


My WW now says I'm the best father she knows. She resnets how well my kids interact with me now and thinks I am trying to "use them against her" when in fact I am building a better relationship with them. I can still do better here.


I will check it out.


Looking back I have given in to my WW threat on many occasions for fear of one thing or another and I resent her for that. It is going to take a differnt attitude for me to change.


MM, I really hate snooping it takes so much out of me and it drains my LB for my W.


What file as soon as WS leaves? File for LS or D? You are refering to LS right?


My WW said she wants to be primary residence becasue "she is the mother".


Thanks and I will.

In His arms. [/quote]

Thinking of jokes,

A man arrives at Heaven and Michael explains to him how some things work. “We will provide everything you need here but your mode of transportation is based on how faithful you were in marriage.” The man is satisfied to see that he is given a Volvo. While driving to his new home he sees one of his friends who also arrived that day parked on the side of the road crying in his Aston Martin. “Why are you crying?! You’ve earned an Aston Martin for your marital faithfulness!” he says. His friend looks up and explains, “Yeah, but I just saw my wife on a skateboard!”

I have really no idea right now how I will accomplish this. I hope she starts to get fed up or whacky and leaves but I don't think that will happen. She loves her kids dearly.


knock knock
who's there?
Police.
Police who?
Police laugh at this joke!

knock knock
who's there?
tank
tank who?
you're welcome!

knock knock
who's there?
olive
olive who?
I love you too!

knock knock
who's there
Sarah (my DD name)
Sarah who?
Sarah reason you don't like this joke?

Some other kids jokes...

Why do bees buzz?
Because the can't sing!

What do you call a large ant?
An elephant!

What do you call an old ant?
An antique!

What do you call a sheep without legs?
A cloud!

My kids still get a kick out them.

Stop me if you’ve heard these. (Stop me, please!)

knock, knock
- who’s there?
orange
- orange who?
orange you glad to see me?


knock, knock
- who’s there?
who
- who, who
what are you, an owl?

knock, knock
- who’s there?
boo
- boo, who
don’t be sad, daddy’s home now.

Ok, that’s enough for now… (evil cackle fading in the background) …

“My WW now says I'm the best father she knows. She resents how well my kids interact with me now and thinks I am trying to "use them against her" when in fact I am building a better relationship with them. I can still do better here.”

I heard the same thing. Almost word for word, I bet.


“She has me believing her wanting to leave is not about the OM.”

You must stop believing your WW. She is still in the A. Blatantly. You cannot believe anything a WS says. If she were to aver the sun rises in the east, check the facts first.


“When I say she can't leave without the kids she throws it back in my face and says things like "how could you use the kids against me" and ‘I knew you would punish me and be mean to me’ or ‘you can't keep the kids from me’ "

Heard this too. Again, typical WS drivel. Dismiss with an internal groan and work your plan. I think it’s good to keep reassuring her you will never keep the kids from her, though. As long as OM is not around them, anyway.

With prayers,

It is hard to believe that I felt the same thing not too many months ago. I came to not trust anything my then, WW said. Now, going on two years past DD, if my FWW tells me something, I believe her. In the event she would have some unexplained time away, it would make me wonder and suspicious, but overall, it is possible to rebuild your trust back into your FWS. I never thought I would say it.

I have asked her if she becomes so unhappy or falls out of love with me in the marriage and begins to fall for someone, I have asked her to tell me and I will let her out without a battle. Under no circumstances do I have it in me to begin the entire infidelity battle and process again. I would not have it in me to fight her, I would prefer to part ways and accept life as it is.

Anyone else feel this way?

TooSoon

I feel exactly that way. I would part ways if it happened again. And I do trust my H today. When he says something it is always true. He worked very hard to regain my trust and was successful.