Too Soon...I feel the same way exactly. exceot I never fought the "battle" of an affair as you all have. I did not know, I suspected for a spell but my blind trust and her lies made it go away. It died its own natural death.

What I have found is I would not fight for my marriage if she demanded a divorce. I do not fear being alone and I do not fear others. What I have done is I am myself, I am honest with her. I check on her occasionally but is that trust or insecurity? A little of both...

How is Hope doing in protecting himself? From my own experience I must tell you to not sit by and wait....like a death from cancer you will be in shock when she does strike...

As I have said, the guns are not quiet because they're done shelling you, they're reloading....

I wouldn't say that I am sitting by and waiting. I am in Plan A and have consulted my lawyer to protect myself. He told me that time is on my side...if I can stand it. So she can't hurt me financially or with the kids.

Sure she can spring a LS on me but I will deal with that when and if it happens. I am 99.9% sure she will not leave without the kids.

If she is "reloading" what is the worst she could do to me?

WW was somewhat angrier last night with me and less patient. She still makes sarcastic comments about me or her family checking up on her. I no longer reply to those sarcastic comments. DD was in bed and called for her mom a few times while WW was downstairs. I didn't stop my DD from calling my WW so she took it out on me.

I am feeling stronger and more confident in myself lately. I have an appointment with my Dr. today to look into AD's to help me get through Plan B, if necessary. I don't feel like I need them right now but I want the option if things get ugly.

I have regained 15 or the 30 lbs I lost since d-day#1. I have started playing hockey again. I am reading more than I ever did and am well into "Bringing up Boys" by Dr. James Dobson.

My WW family invited my WW over for Christmas but only if we come as a family. My parents have also invited my WW over for Christmas eve. She is not sure if she wants to go.

Talked to my MIL and FIL last night when I picked up the kids and they continued to support my position. Told me not to let her actions get to me and to stay strong. My WW's nephew told me that my BIL (WW oldest brother) told his family that WW is "wrecking our family". My other BIL who has maintained a good relationship with my WW has told me that I am a "stand-up guy".

I have informed my boss of my situation and he has given me all his support. Asked if I need time off and told me to take whatever time I needed to take care of things. He suspected something was wrong by my attitude and the weight loss. I'm less anxious and more able to concentrate at work.

And of course I am receiving tremendous support and insight from all or YOU here to which I will be forever grateful. Really I don't know where I would be without all of you.

So I get the feeling that I will be fine no matter how this eventually ends.

Hope...you have done ALL of the things I did, all of them. Where I live (New York) you can not sue for a legal seperation, you can only sue for divorce. In NY it is a seperation agreement and since I would not agree to any of it, as you are not she chose to divorce. She knew how dead set against the D I was and I had become numb to her threats simply telling her to do "whatever she felt she needed to do" See I too refused to leave the house, leave my children, agree to anything but saving my marriage. She filed in her divorce papers that I was unstable and she was afraid how I would be when served and afterwards. So when I came home from work to a dark house with 5 police cars in the driveway I was served her divorce papers AND an order of protection ordering me from the house and granting temporary FULL custody of my boys. I could answer the "show cause" order in 5 days. See that is the part that was the shock and what I am telling you to protect yourself from. See in my state you can not "throw someone out"...they have to leave or you can go to court and tell them that my H is an X Marine and threatened to kill me if I dovorced him and said that it would take "20 goons to get me out of the house and it would still be on a stretcher, and I won't be alone"....

Never underestimate her resolve to get rid of you...and your lawyer said she can't hurt you? Let's hope you do not have to pay that lawyer for the services I had to pay mine. Trust me, I have never lost sight of the $28,000 we spent cause she would not talk to me....cause she feared me (I like many on here loath people like her, what she did and when you live with someone for 18 years she knew how I felt about her actions)...in the end I got everything I wanted except a family...see in NY...regardless of stories you hear, you can not stop a divorce you can only delay it....

Hope...it is good that you have the support of her family and you're taking care of yourself. What I describe above is only ONE scenerio that she can do to you and that is why Plan B (the part where you take care of you) is what I think you should do. there is only so much crap a fly can eat..and I sense that you're just about done eating hers....

As always...I wish you luck..

SM, your story is incredible and the fact that you are re-marrying your XWS makes it even more unbelievable. Do you and your soon to be W ever laugh about the craziness of past events?

How are both of you doing now? Do you still resent her for all that she put you through? Have you completely forgiven her?

I am so facinated by some of these stories since they sound like they are taken from a novel.

In my case I think my WW thinks I will somehow agree to a seperation in the new year and when I say "NO" that is when things should get interesting. Until then I will try to keep a strong Plan A going and prepare for Plan B.

Do we ever laugh about it?

We have one friend who remained a friend to both of us during the entire process. He shared his opinions and there were times he did not like my response but he was a true friend throughout. No judgements, nothing but neutral. He occasionally gives us a hard time about everything in a sick kind of way.

The divorce and teh surrounding events is something we have agreed to disagree on. It is an ugly process. Friends split, alliances are formed...and now guess what...those alliances are gone. People are jerks. Her parents were nice to me, her sister, whose husband was a very good freind was an A$$bag. I am on speaking terms with her and her husband. None of it was easy for either one of us. Trust me, I see that she saw no other way to deal with our issues. My frustration was huge. For years SF was a joke. I remain bitter about the entire process and I can still feel the anger mounting as I think of it now. She added to it by the discovery process of her PA...I cannot and do not think of forgiveness when these thoughts enter my mind. I do not react as I did before. So I have accepted the facts as to what they are.

See...there are a few things that she has neglected to do since we agreed to remarry. I still do not know how her PA ended and when. It is one of those things that I need an answer to. Her response was "you just want me to tell you he dumped me"...and mine was "no, what I'd love to hear is that YOU came to your senses"....that was where it ended...the conversation....and as usual...she NEVER brings it up...I do...and have not in a long time..perceived by her to be a LB....she also needs to take care of the 10th anniversary ring I gave her....that she accepted and wore when she met and consumated her crap....she has not gotten rid of it or changed it...

So Hope....this is probably not what you want to hear...it is a long process....

Dear Hope,

I have been following your thread but have not posted before. I am not here to offer you any advice as I don't feel I am qualified. I just want to share some of my thoughts and feelings with you as I am going through the pain of infidelity as well. You sound like a wonderful father to me. You love and care about your kids, you play with them, you read to them, and you teach them knock knock jokes. I love Dr. Dobson and I think it is great that you are reading about how to raise your children. Most of all, you are trying to keep their family together because you understand that what kids need more than anything is the safety and security of a unified home. My WH told me he needs to put himself first now and shouldn't stay just because of DS10. I beg to differ. It's one thing if you have left no stone unturned and have not been able to work things out with your spouse. As Dr. Phil says, you have to earn your way out of this one. It is another story entirely to claim "I don't feel the love", have another lined up in your back pocket, and bail as both of our spouses have. Tough nuggies, you should have thought about that before you had kids.

I chuckled over your anecdote about noticing an attractive woman in the grocery store and how she would probably be delighted to have a husband like you. I do the same thing. After thinking of 101 ways I may not have been meeting my WH needs, I too start to think "Hey, you're not so great yourself Mr. Perfect." Afterall, they do have their own little annoying habits as we all do.

I wonder if your wife doesn't feel the need to prove herself now. I wonder how she can gracefully return to you and the family. I also wonder how a little taste of her own medicine might affect her. I just think it would be great if there was an attractive woman, maybe one of the kids' friend's mothers, who took pity on your situation and started dropping off yummy homecooked meals. Maybe meet you and your children for playdates. Even better if there was not a woman, but it looked like there was. I wonder how your wife would feel if she started to think that you might not pine away for her forever. How would she feel if she saw another woman mothering her kids or taking care of you?? I can tell you even if I thought I didn't want my husband anymore, it would get my dander up to see someone else stepping in. I believe the WS feelings are compartmentalized during these affairs. In other words, tucked away in a closed box so they don't have to deal with them while they see if you really are the one for them. Just help her remember you are a prize (which you are by the way) that won't collect dust for long.

Sorry this is so long but my heart goes out to you and I wanted to try and offer you some words of comfort. I see how much you love your wife and children and the selflessness you possess under these trying circumstances. Hope, you are a treasure that any sane woman would only dream about. Remember this when you are in your darkest hour.

{{{{{Hope}}}}}
S.

Shattered05, first let me say that I have also followed your story and know you WH will one day realize what he has lost. Like most of us BS's you have learned much and this will help you in the future regardless of what happens with you M.

This is your first post on my thread and I hope it is not your last because that was the nicest thing anyone has said about me here and the nicest thing I have heard about me in a long, long time.

That was truly wonderful and thanks for saying those kinds things about me. I don't claim to be the world's best husband or father all I know is I have learned sooooo much about myself over the last few months that have made me a better father, husband and especially person.

The old me is gone, hopefully forever and I am giving all to my M right now even though my WW is not accepting much of what I have to give. I wish she would soften her heart and let me in. I know she wouldn't regret it.

The other positive is that my kids are the beneficiaries of the new me and they are much better for it. The love I have for them is so great that only a parent could understand. I liken it to expaining the colour green to a person who has been blind since birth. It can't be done.


What do you mean by this?


I'm sure that is one issue that is really holding her back and she has said so herself. She needs to feel that I am a safe place to come back to.


I really don't think it would bother my WW right now since she has withdrawn so far from me. And the other woman thing and warm meals could be dangerous, espcially given my current vulnerability.


Shattered, you certainly know how to make me feel better and I will remember this.

Thanks so much for you kind words!

Well....as a matter of fact.....


<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

TSTBC

“Anyone else feel this way?”

You know, this is not as easy a question to answer as you guys might think.

When first married I thought, as did most of us here, I would never put up with adultery. Once is out. After all, she swore fidelity in front of God, family, friends and the community of all marriages. And on a Bible, BTW. She signed her name to this covenant.

After DDay of the short A 15 years ago I decided, as did most of us here, to recover. But I swore to myself and FWW I would not go through adultery again. FWW agreed she would tell me if she wanted out or wanted another so we would not have to go through that again. I promised her I would let her go with love if that became the case. She cried real tears and swore many times it would never happen again. She promised this in front of her family.

Maybe she really means it. After all she seems really, really sincere.

OK. Great. Cool. Forgive and forget.

Then seven years later comes DDay 1 of the LTA.

Again, I decide to recover (based quite a bit on lies about the depth and extent of the A, I now know). But I swore to myself and FWW I would not go through adultery again. FWW agreed she would tell me if she wanted out or wanted another so we would not have to go through that again. I promised her I would let her go with love if that became the case. She cried real tears and swore many times it would never happen again. This time she promised fidelity in church and in front of family and MC.

So, gosh, maybe I should not be hasty. Maybe she really means it this time. After all she seems really, really sincere.

OK. Maybe not so great. But still cool. Forgive and forget. Again.

Then five years later comes DDay 2 of the LTA.

I swear I will not go through adultery again. FWW agrees she will tell me if she wants out or wants another so we will not have to go through this again. I promiss her I will let her go with love. She cries real tears and swears often it will never happen again. She's even offered to sign a contract.

Big deal. That brings us full circle to the original marriage ceremony.

So tell me. How easy is this question, really?

Added: I have have often wondered lately who is the slow learner here.

SendMe:

Thanks for your post. We all got our own issues and it boils down to trust and betrayal of the trust.

Alf:

I was wondering what your real name was, now I know, HA!

I can sit behind my keyboard in a normal state of mind but in another ten years, I will have 33 years together. If my wife had another affair in 10 years, would I leave her for good?! I am not sure. I can't imaging going through it again. I think, I would probably walk away. First time was a mistake, the second time would be with open knowledge of how affairs start. I would have to think I would move on. My kids should all be married off by then but health and other issues may dictate a different set of circumstances.

I hope I don't have to deal with it again. It is not an easy question and it does require more knowlwdge.

TooSoon

Hope, I meant all those kind things I said. We just need to be reminded of them at times like this.


What do you mean by this?

Well, I'm trying to put myself in her shoes to understand what she might be thinking. I try to imagine if I was attracted to someone so strongly that I was willing to risk it all in a moment of passion. I start to wonder if I married the wrong man. I start to rationalize my behavior and think of every time my husband neglected me. I start to wonder if it would be different with this man. He would treasure me always and never neglect me! This passion would last forever! I am not really thinking about consequences right now because I never think I'll get caught. I figure I'll just have a taste and see if maybe it was meant to be. Next thing I know my whole world comes crashing down on me and I'm totally humiliated as my husband knows all the nitty gritty details of my tryst and shares them with my family. Yes, I would be so angry at him. I wonder if I might then think, now I'm going to have to prove them wrong. Prove to them that this OM is great and wonderful and Mr. Right. Because by proving that to them it would lessen my shame of what I've done. Wouldn't that be the only way to rationalize this train wreck? Then I might figure that now that it's all out in the open and everyone knows anyway, I may as well see it through and see if he really is the one.


I'm sure that is one issue that is really holding her back and she has said so herself. She needs to feel that I am a safe place to come back to.

[I'm trying to learn how to use quotes-don't think I've got the hang of it yet, I seem to be quoting my words and not yours!]

Anyway, I don't know if that makes sense or not but it's food for thought.

Take care.
S.

I believe you are likely correct, the pride of the offender makes her want to now justify her actions.

TS

Shattered, you raise and excellent possiblity and hopefully some FWS can give their opinion here.

The only thing that may hamper that in my case is the fact that my WW has repeatedly told her family that R with OM is over. They have also repeatedly told her they will never accept OM or her R with him. Is she willing to risk loosing her family...maybe?

I remember reading one of Leexxy's post's where she said there comes a point where there is not much more the BS can do to win back a WS. The OP must start to show their true colours for the fog to begin clearing. I think that may apply in my case. I need the OM to start LB'ing my WW.

Last night my WW came home from work and we sat down for dinner and I was about to say something when she asked me how my day was. I was taken aback since she hasn't asked that question in a very, very long time. I almost didn't know how to answer her and wasn't sure why she was asking.

This morning she was more curt and the rollercoaster continues...

Hope, WATCH YOUR FINANCES!! My W is doing some suspicious things, in preparation for her leave on Jan. 1. Look at all credit cards, joint accounts, retirement funds, etc!!!! It's so hard to believe that 5 months ago, I could trust this woman with my life. Now, I fear for it!!! Do the same!!! Stay protected!

Mywife, I have a very close eye on everything right now. Sorry to hear your situation is getting worse. Don't give up on your M yet. You need to make it difficult for you WW. Don't make it easy for her to go through this.

Don't resign yourself to the fact that it is over...it isn't! Sure she wants it to be and when you give up it justifies her actions.

Come on man...do this!


I just got a voicemail from my WW asking if I had called to see how our kids were doing at my parents house. Her tone was angry and curt. Why do WS have to be so angry towards the BS?

I called back and left her a nice, calm message and hoped she was having a good day.

Why does she want to fight with me?

Hope,

My husband was also very angry with me in the time surrounding Dday. When he talked he practically spit venom at me. I was so confused. I actually asked him through my tears "Why are you so angry at me and why do you hate me so much?"

After DDay I purchased some tapes from a website -lightyourfire.com. They were excellent tapes but WH was too deep in his affair for them to work. They are actually like Plan A tapes. Dr. Ellen Kriedman of that website told me this in response to his anger:

"Many times, when a man's behavior makes no sense and he starts distancing himself from you emotionally and sexually, he is usually seeing or interested in another woman who he has made an emotional connection with. Just so you know, usually, one of the first signs that an affair has been going on, is that he tries to find fault with you in order to justify the affair in his mind. Anything he can find, he magnifies, because if he can prove that you are a terrible wife, then he can feel justified for doing what he is doing. Another more important sign is that he no longer wants to kiss passionately on the lips and no longer initiates making love because he feels guilty. Many times, when a man swears there is no other woman, he says that because it's not a physical affair at this point. But he doesn't realize that an "emotional" affair is just as bad because it cheats you out of the emotional connection the two of you should be having and ruins a marriage. Every couple argues, but if there is another woman who he can talk to, then he secretly thinks he'd be better off with her during those times and your arguments become more frequent and you stay distant longer and longer."

Of course this applies to both sexes, not just men. Also, I wouldn't believe for one second that your wife is not seeing OM right now. See quote above? Maybe (and that's a big maybe) they have laid off the sex and that's why she swears it's over.

Good luck.
S.

I asked this exact same question and she would say "It's not you, it's me"


These commnets make so much sense and explains alot for what is happening with my WW. That also explains why it is critical not to get sucked into arguments with the WS since it gives them an incentive to seek out OP. It certainly is frustrating when the BS is in Plan A mode and the WS is angry and distant.


I am pretty certain they are still in contact, I just don't know if they have been in physical contact lately.

Hope,

Yes, I also got the it's not you it's me, but mostly I got it's you!

"These commnets make so much sense and explains alot for what is happening with my WW. That also explains why it is critical not to get sucked into arguments with the WS since it gives them an incentive to seek out OP. It certainly is frustrating when the BS is in Plan A mode and the WS is angry and distant."

Yes, I agree. After DDay I sucked up every book I could find about affairs. My family kept asking me, what does it matter? How is this possibly helping you? They thought I was being obsessive (I was) and wanted me to move on. I tried to explain that knowledge is power and if I understand it, it doesn't hurt so much.


"I am pretty certain they are still in contact, I just don't know if they have been in physical contact lately."

Imagine how paranoid they must be now, knowing that you taped them. They can never know now where you might be lurking. I bet that puts a big damper on any SF. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hope:

After the WS is exposed, they become accountable to others. Their actions are scrutinized and they are questioned by interested third parties, family, etc. This scrutiny ticks them off and they feel they have been betrayed by the BS. This makes them angry. MY FWW was mad over expsoure for a long time, but I didn't care because it was the tool that broker the affair.

TooSoon

[quote]Hope,

Dr. Ellen Kriedman of that website told me this in response to his anger:

"Many times, when a man's behavior makes no sense and he starts distancing himself from you emotionally and sexually, he is usually seeing or interested in another woman who he has made an emotional connection with. Just so you know, usually, one of the first signs that an affair has been going on, is that he tries to find fault with you in order to justify the affair in his mind. Anything he can find, he magnifies, because if he can prove that you are a terrible wife, then he can feel justified for doing what he is doing. Another more important sign is that he no longer wants to kiss passionately on the lips and no longer initiates making love because he feels guilty. Many times, when a man swears there is no other woman, he says that because it's not a physical affair at this point. But he doesn't realize that an "emotional" affair is just as bad because it cheats you out of the emotional connection the two of you should be having and ruins a marriage. Every couple argues, but if there is another woman who he can talk to, then he secretly thinks he'd be better off with her during those times and your arguments become more frequent and you stay distant longer and longer." [QUOTE]

-------------------

Sounds just like my case, particuarly my FWW wouldn't kiss me during her affair. Looking back, she probably didn't want to betray her lover, although she would let me have sex with her, even though it was only a sex act at the time. No emotions were in play.

TooSoon