Over the past two days I've noticed that my WW has been nicer to me, just barely. It's barely perceivable, but I have noticed and it makes me uneasy.

Yesterday she asked me how my day was for the first time in months and today she said hi when she came home for the first time in a long time. She seems to be in a better mood (despite the voice mail that I got today) and she even talked to me a little.

She called her mom and was calm and pleasant with her. Usually she is curt and somewhat angry. She actually had a decent conversation with her. Her sister called and the same thing happened. While on the phone her sister invited us to her house for Christmas tonight and my WW agreed without a fight.

Remember my WW refused to go to anyone's house for Thanksgiving so this is a little unusual, especially given the fact that she wants to seperate after the holidays.

I don't know if this is just a temporary change in her or what is going on. I don't know what to make of it and it makes me a little uneasy.

We haven't had any R-talk since our big meltdown 10 days ago and to be honest I have felt better since then also. Whenever we have R-talk it just seems to drain us both so the short break has been nice.

The newspaper came and she didn't take out the real estate section like she usually does.

Is she setting me up for something or is she really being genuinely nicer (even if it is just barely percievable)?

I feel suspiscious but hopeful. This is strange.

Hope, I used to hang on to every word my FWW would say so I know exactly what you are saying. I wanted so much for her to give me some hope. One day at a time, but her being friendly sounds positive. Be leary and don't think she wont lie if she needs too.

The turn around takes months and months.

Hope,

Why don't you do some snooping again? I know you don't like it, but that is the only way for you to find out what is really going on.

UVA:

What should hope do with the information he gets? Reexpose this? Reading this thread seems like dejavu...I almost want to ask if this was an old thread and was just "bumped"....but then I see the date and realize I was in error.

Lem

Lem,

Unlike in Dazed’s thread, HTW has been progressing in his sitch. He is no longer in denial, nor is he a doormat to his WW’s whims and bullcrap anymore. I know what you mean by déjà vu, but HTW has grown a lot since his sitch started.


By confirming that the A is still extant, he can create a crisis, as Mortarman would say. He can re-expose to her family and have them pressure her from their end. They would know that she is a big time liar, as most WS’s are, and probably cut her off of any support, given how they feel about her A.

Moreover, HTW would now be in a better position to ask his WW to leave NOW. Since people, as a psychological fact, like to be consistent, she would be more inclined to move out now, even though it would still be hard to get her to do so. She could no longer pretend that she has any good reason for staying put in the home. In short, HTW would then be in a better position to pressure her to get the h*ll out of their place.

Further, HTW could now go to his attorney and have him file and see if he can kick her out legally from the house. HTW would have more evidence of malfeasance and therefore more of an argument to make his case.

Last, HTW would know for sure that his WW is not ready to be with him in anyway. He thus would feel freer to move on to the next chapter.

My 0.02 cents.

Hope, Refresh my memory please. Is the OM married and did you expose the affair to the OM's family?

TS

TS, the OM is seperated for a while and possibly divorced from XW and has been for several years. I don't know much else about that situation.

Well, my WW is still distant from me but just a tad less cold to me this weekend. I can't explain exactly why I feel this way just her attitude and slightly increased conversation with me. No r-talk this weekend.

The difference is barely perceiveable and if I weren't exposed to it everyday I would not have noticed it. I may just be imagining it or fooling myself. Defenitely no change in her affection towards me, still none.

She hung up the phone on me while going through the drive thru and when she got home she appologized for it and said she hung up by accident. That probably would not have happened before.

On saturday she accused me of going through her purse because she found the zipper openned. Later she realized she openned it when she was looking for something and actually apologized to me for her accusation.

Two appologies in one weekend, what is going on here.

We had my DS's friends family over on Saturday and they were really fun. We had a great time and they are very family oriented so I enjoy spening time with them. As the mother was leaving and unaware of our marital problems she said to my WW "Your husband is a keeper WW, isn't he?". Well my WW didn't really respond and kind of changed the subject but it made me feel good to hear that.

I also bumped into a friend who's father just passed away and I told him I was sorry that we didn't attend the wake and funeral. I told my WW this and she said "we will have to go visit them". I'm thinking to myself, why would you want to visit them if you will be leaving soon? Why makes you care about visiting them when you didn't before?

I'm getting more of these small incidents that make me question what is going on in my WW head. I am still very gaurded and vigilant so it confuses me when these small things happen.

We will see what type of mood she is in tonight.

HTW thanks for your encouragement for myself and others in the forums.

Not sure what those things from your WW mean. Sounds like there are at least some good thoughts in her mind. Could it be that as her self-imposed date draws nearer she realizes more and more each day that her plans are a mistake?

Re the floor plans, my own WW also had those. Based on my experience they don't signify much, or add much meaning beyond the other things.

Sorry to be redundant, but it more snooping in order? Or are you not sure you want to take that risk right now.

wnh, I feel soo much better not doing any snooping right now. Snooping on your WS takes so much out of you and you start to see things that aren't there. The last time I snooped was to confirm the PA, which I did and now she know I know and her family knows. It serves it purpose but can really wear down the BS so I don't recommend contiual snooping. I may do some more snooping if I have to.

Remember prior to d-day #2 I had this gut feeling that her A was becoming more intense and the feeling was very similar to d-day #1. I don't have that feeling right now. She was more angry and distant and I was feeling very anxious.

I believe her family will begin to snoop and follow her if they already haven't done so.

And as you have mentioned, getting caught snooping is a real LB'er. I think I regained some trust when I denied the snooping of her purse and she ultimately realized it was her own doing.

The sepeartion/divorce handbook, floor plans, real estate newspapers all made me very anxious, but now I don't let that stuff get to me as much. I haven't seen them lying around for a couple of weeks either.

I went to my Dr. today to look into AD's and he wants me to seek IC first since he believes AD should be used as a tool only.

Be strong my man. You can do this. Certainly you can do better than me. As soon as my WW started to come back I got a sudden case of resentment, and wasn't strong enough to control it. So for awhile problems ensued that were partly my fault. If I'd been stronger I could have stayed Plan A and prevented some pain.

Hang in there, keep showing your love and don't let the resentment demons get you.

WS's have so much pride. They have convinced themselves the BS was so bad to help justify the affair and it makes it difficult for them to come back. Keep extending your hand to her and the little things she is saying does matter. It sounds like she is wanting to come back, but slowly and on her terms.

We all know she screwed up but continue to eat your pride. If she ever recommits to come back, you will find she will have remorse but it may take months from now. If you feel like a roommate, accept it as it is.

Regarding snooping, it probably doesn't matter right now. You know she did the entire deal so it is more important to deal with the bad she did over time. There is not one thing she can or will say to make it right or justified. You will learn to accept the bad as matter of fact, like accepting death. Time does heal.

You will know when she shows emotional signs towards you, like the little things you saw over the weekend. If she is showing any signs of reconnecting to you, it is because she is disconnecting from the OM....or she wants to get through the Christmas Holiday First. I hope her Relationship is deteriorating and this is not a Holiday act.

TooSoon

wnh, I know what you are saying about the resentment. Much of the BS resentment is suppressed since they expend so much time and energy trying to get the WS back. When there are defenite signs that the WS is reconnecting to the BS the resentment floats back to the surface and can be ugly. I assume this is what you experienced.

Really I am not putting more into these signs than just observing them. To do so could set me up for a massive let down. A BS observes everything that the WS does and this is no different. I don't know if she is just feeling more comfortable knowing that all the cards on on the table and there is nothing left to hide.

My guard is still up...way up, and I am under no illusions that she is coming back to me.

As each week goes by I find myself getting stronger as I'm trying to rebuild the self-esteem that my WW so suddenly destroyed. Brick by brick with comments from people like my DS friend's mother who refered to me as a "keeper" to my WW, my confidence is reemerging.

I'm dressing better, eating better, feeling better and interacting better. I know what I have to offer in a R and I would love for the recipient to be my W. If not then it will be her loss.

I remember the feelings of hoplessness and loss of control from mid September to late November. That time also coincided with me discovering the PA on Oct 7 and my WW continued push for seperation and broken NC. I felt really terrible and out of control during this time mainly due to my WW's coldness and the many hurful things she said to me.

I remember listening to the tape recording of my WW and OM in our family car and crying like a baby and thinking how life could be so unfair. Then lemonman posted and let me know that my M was just as recoverable now as it was before and put it in perspective with an event that happened in the hospital he worked at that day.

That didn't register with me at the time, but he was right in that it is all about perspective. The problem you don't have much of it when you are going through this type of emotional turmoil.

Hope...I need to comment on snooping and it being a LB...it is not. Your W has given you evbery reason in the world to snoop. She has been and remains untrustworthy. Your fear is that it will drive a wedge...the wedge was already there....snoop...don't let these crumbs you're getting be all that you get. I continue to snoop on my XW and she KNOWS it and I do not hide it. If she asks me if I looked at her e-mail, key logger...I tell her when I did....I do not do it often. I have said before..is it trust or am I insecure? It is both and I remain unapologetic about it. There are reasons why I do.

Resentment...remember when you asked me about remarrying and I told you there remained unfinished business and questions left unanswered? Well...she got very upset with me...and said I was "looking for excuses to back out"....I asked her if any of the things I brought up were "new news" and she said they were not new....then I asked her if she thought they were just "going to disappear"....

I told her after d-day #3 (not 3 A's updated on reality 3 x)that I wanted to know how and when it ended and I told her that she needed to "do something" with the very expensive 10th anniversary ring that I got her while in the middle of her PA in 1998. Somehow she seems crushed that I still demand this....and the ring...that she loves (and has not worn since DD#2)is clearly something I resent in a big way...it is a sign of my resentment....and it has to go.....

Stay strong hope...

Hope, how do you know for sure that the OM is really divorced or seperated? Have you spoken to his wife?

Melody,

I thought the same thing. That could be a tyoical WS lie. He may be very married and alligning himself with the OM's wife would be very helpful.

TS

TS, that looks like such a shaky story that it must have set off your bullshi** detector like it did mine! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Well Melody, when you have been there before like so many of us has, it does set off that special detector now instilled within us. My dearest FWW lied to protect her OM for so long that it became almost impossible to get to the real facts and truth. But truth does surface in time.

With Hopes Wife declaring she wants leave after Christmas, I hope she is changing her heart versus buying time. If her OM is married, that would help Hope a lot if he could find out who the OM is. Hope cannot believe ANYTHING his dearest WW is saying today. Maybe, just maybe, she is beginning to come around.

What is weird is, I cannot even imagine my FWW doing it again to herself or to me, but I know she is capable....hard truths from real people.

TS

SM, I have to disagree with you here since I do believe snooping is a LB especially whey your WW doesn't know you are doing it. I guess you could consider it an independent behaviour. Right now I'm feeling much better than I have in a while so I don't want to be sucked back into the fray. Depending on how things turn over the next few weeks or so I may have to resume snooping. If my WW decides to go ahead with a seperation in the new year I will need to be at my strongest so I'm preparing for this.

SM, you talked about this 10 year ring before, what is the story behind this?


On one of the phone conversations I recorded between my WW and her friend they talked about "ever since he became single" and "his ex-wife" when refering to OM.


Really I am just chalking it up to buying time since I don't think she is having a change of heart. I am VERY skeptical of anything my WW says or does right now so I don't put too much into what she is doing right now. They are just observations.

Last night my WW came home realtively early because she had a bad headache. After dinner I told her to go relax while I cleaned things up. She just lay on the couch for most of the night until it was time for bed. I wonder if something happened during with OM that brought this on. Last night was more of a typical night, she wasn't overy mean or nice.

Today she is working from home and has the kids wiht her since my DD is not feeling well and my DS has a doctor appointment. I bought her a coffee before I left for work, hopefully she appreciates it.

On a positive note my appetite has returned with a vengence. My weight is slowly returning and I'm enjoying eating again <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I'm just finding it very difficult to converse with my WW right now. We could be in the same room but it is like we are in different worlds sometimes. Whenever I ask her a question she gets defensive and thinks I am asking to check up on her. If I ask about her work or family it somehow relates back to the A and she gets defensive. It seems the only thing we can talk about right now without baggage is the kids.

Has anyone experienced this and what did you do to overcome this. Our minds are focused on the R right now so having a general conversation without hidden agendas is difficult.

And this information would have come from? THE OM. A LIAR and an INFIDEL who is trying to seduce a married woman. What do you expect him to tell a woman he is seducing? That he is happily married? That is not what they say, Hope.

Please investigate this NOW and find out if his wife is living at his home. He may well be divorced, but you sure can't take the second hand statements of an infidel.

Also, it is not a lovebuster to snoop on your spouse if you have cause. Sure, they may not like it, but that does not mean it is a lovebuster. Harley recommends snooping, so don't feel hesitant to do so if need be. Snooping can be a useful weapon in busting up the affair and protecting the BS. But when it is not used for those thing, there is no reason to do it. To be frank, Hope, I think the reason you don't like doing it is because it angers her and you don't want to do that.


She is defensive because she is guilty. Innocent people don't get defensive about benign questions about their day. This is to be expected from a WS who is committed to seperation so she can pursue her affair.

Frankly, if it were me, I would be snooping like crazy because she is actively planning to destroy your marriage and should not be trusted. You have an obligation to protect yourself from her destructive path.

Appeasing her at all costs will buy you nothing, Hope, as you can see. So, you need to put aside the appeasement plan and do what you need to do to protect yourself and your children from her. Stop letting her manipulate you with her anger.