You know it seems that for those in the midst of affairs theyfind comfort in movies and TV shows glorifying affairs because it helps them justify their own right to have an affair. But once the person crashes and becomes humble, they tend to hate shows like that. I know I was that way.

Shattered, I meant to say she is in the withdrawal stage of marriage and not withdrawal from her A. She is withdrawaling from me. So when I re-read Dr. Harley's theory of the Three Stages of Marriage, I couldn't help notice how accurate the section on withdrawal was as it applies to my WW and I.



Sadly, I think you may be right here. She has made up her mind and I think the only way she can realize it wasn't the right choice (if ever) is if she proceeds and fails.


Preventing LB'ers is becoming increasingly difficult for me due to my WW actions and attitude. When I am at home with her my emotions take over and I don't think as clearly as I do when I remove myself from the situation.

My DS is a huge Star Wars fan and I have learned alot from these movies as well (believe it or not!). As Obi-wan kenobi says "Don't trust your feelings". I'm feeling hurt, frustrated and angry right now and those feelings will lead you down a path of destruction.


Thanks Shattered, you defenitely have a way with encouragement. Don't stop using it, here or in your everyday life. You sound like a wonderful person and your WH will also realize that one day!

That is so interesting. My WH suddenly started watching The Bachelor in the weeks before he moved out. After he left he gave me the "I don't feel a connection" line. How original! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> And yes, he used to hate those types of shows when I watched them.

Hope....I totally understand where you're coming from and what your perspective is right now. It is my understanding that your wifes affair has ended. Is that the case? I think that in order for you to know exactly where you're at, you must know. I understand that "snooping" is against what you agreed to BUT C'mon...it's not like this is not warranted.

The situation you describe can go on for years! It did in my case for almost 5 years!!! It is something I will never, ever do again. This being prolonged can cause you serious health and emotional issues. It is this period that I really struggle with with my XW..as we reconcile. It was also during this period I was complacent about it. I ignored it. And when it imploded it was like a black hole...I could not get out....do not do that to yourself...wait until after the holidays Hope...then it may be time to Plan B...cause this will only get worse...

My fwXW hates those shows...mainly because I was dating a Terri Hatcher look a like for a while...(I was long divorced)...plus...any mention of infidelity and she wants something different on....even the Sopranos...when Tony's wife confesses of her EA...and Tony makes fun of her saying "he made me feel special"...in a joking way....

but that may have been due to a powerful LB I retorted with when she said that to me...I told her that men learn at a very early age to make sure that women "feel special"..."it's the easiest way to get in their pants"....

Do I feel that way? No..way and I know I was very wrong in saying that but I am a man who won't hold back....but...she told me that that statement was the beginning of her looking at her OM differently....for teh middle aged predator that he really was....

"Shattered, I meant to say she is in the withdrawal stage of marriage and not withdrawal from her A. She is withdrawaling from me." Okay, now I understand!

"Preventing LB'ers is becoming increasingly difficult for me due to my WW actions and attitude. When I am at home with her my emotions take over and I don't think as clearly as I do when I remove myself from the situation."
Hope, I can say from experience, it is so much easier when they leave! It does really hurt, but you don't have to deal with their BS on a daily basis.

"My DS is a huge Star Wars fan and I have learned alot from these movies as well (believe it or not!). As Obi-wan kenobi says "Don't trust your feelings". I'm feeling hurt, frustrated and angry right now and those feelings will lead you down a path of destruction."

How true it is! I don't watch Star Wars but someone here has a sig line from Star Wars that says something like "Train yourself to let go of the thing you fear to lose the most." I love that! I think it is profound. It also seems to be what works is my case. WH and I seem to have this dance going on. I pull back and he comes closer. I come closer and he pulls back. Letting go is a process and doesn't happen immediately. But when you can let go of the reins and go along for the ride, it is amazing what can happen.

It seems most of these shows today glorify A's and watching these shows with my WW makes me feel hurt since I know she enjoys them.

I went grocery shopping yesterday and at magazines at the checkout were flooded with "cheating and infidelity". Am I more sensitive to this now because I have been personally affected or does there just seem to be a tolerance to infidelity?

Sendme, my WW claims she has not been in contact but I highly doubt it. I won't allow this to go on for years since I have needs as well. I want to talk to SH this week or next to prepare for my next stage, whether it is Plan B or seperation with Plan A (which I don't know if I can handle). I'll see what he recommends.

I have been very careful not to say anything negative about OM since she will most likely be defensive of him.

She has said things like "I can trust him" or "he is so kind" or "he did thing you never did"...etc. Hurtful to hear and I wish I could stab pencils into his eyes for coming on to a married woman.

Shattered you are sounding like a wise one!!! You are really good at this.

Hope, I think I'm keeping step with you. I think in the mind of WS its all justified. I see it in my WH..."I love my family...A was wrong..sort of..well, not really...I didn't do anything that bad...I just had a friend..we only talk on the phone now...we're just friend its not like we're sleeping together...BW is so unreasonable she doesn't want me to have any friends." I can see him being pulled back and forth. He will have to make a decision soon after the holidays. I agree with Shattered that it may take WS leaving to make any progress...one way or the other.

I too am feeling withdrawl from our marriage, but at this point I welcome it to guard my heart. If I don't look to WH to fulfill my needs then I'm not disappointed. I have a little hope tucked deep inside that I will protect and cherish.

Hang in there, gather your strength.

Hope...

Are you more sensitive? Absolutely. In the words of Bono..."I'm not sleeping....".....

Take care of yourself....and I mean that. I wish I had that fortitude to not allow it to continue....in my case. I did not. It was a god awful time in my life. I knew it then but know I seem to really understand it.

Listen, you have accepted the facts. My XW told me that she actually felt that her OM was "looking for a wife"...and she knew it would never be her....during her PA she may have well thought all those things your W is saying...I also know that she has told me over and over how "wrong" she really was....about everything....

Take care Hope...keep us posted....

"It seems most of these shows today glorify A's and watching these shows with my WW makes me feel hurt since I know she enjoys them."
I think it is cruel and unusual punishment for her to watch and enjoy these shows with you while she is in the midst of an affair.

"I went grocery shopping yesterday and at magazines at the checkout were flooded with "cheating and infidelity". Am I more sensitive to this now because I have been personally affected or does there just seem to be a tolerance to infidelity?"
I think it is both. Infidelity is most definitely tolerated in the media. We will forever more be sensitised to it because we have been scarred by it.

"I have been very careful not to say anything negative about OM since she will most likely be defensive of him."
You are right on here. I no longer do this for just this reason.

"She has said things like "I can trust him" or "he is so kind" or "he did thing you never did"...etc."
Ouch. That would really hurt. It just made me realize one good thing my WH has done - never compared me to OW to my face.

"I wish I could stab pencils into his eyes for coming on to a married woman."
I'll sharpen them and keep an arsenal handy for ya! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

C42, I was just thinking of you the second before I saw your post <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I don't know why but I was.

When my WW said "it's not about him" I asked how then she could just give herself to someone who she has no feelings for. She couldn't respond becasue she does have feelings for him and it is about him. You are right in that they make justifications for everything regarding the A and OP.

My WW has her best friend who is close friends with OM so I'm sure they are constantly talking about him and she is being fed the lines.

I believe I'm at the point where OM needs to start LB'ing if he hasn't already. That will be easier once my WW has left and can spend more time with him. I hate that thought!

Hope my informal Plan B, after we were divorced was the result of her PA with someone she worked with that she had an EA with long before we divorced. I knew then and she admitted that the main reason she did it was because she wanted to hurt me (cause I had started dating...MY GOD WE WERE DIVORCED!)...and hurt me it did...And that was when I decided I needed to move on, move forward. There was not anything I could do. I focused on me and my boys. And it worked for me. All those things you miss I started getting. I was doing just fine, was looking just fine and she noticed...significant changes in me...she was the same miserable person I divorced....I told her I did not get it....you have your D, you have EVERYTHING...even a BF now. Why aren't you happy??!! the beginning of our reconciliation was when she said "I miss you"....it took 6 months until we attempted reconciliation.....but I'll never forget thinking...."she can't get to me anymore..."....I felt teh same way I did during the "withdrawal period"...every little nice thing she did I took the wrong way...and I did not trust it...or her...

So...you're onto something here hope...great approach....good luck with it

Edited to clarify

LOL...been there, heard that!
WH: The trouble with our marriage has NOTHING to do w/OW.

Me:As long as OW is around we can't even address the issues w/ our marriage.

WH: She's the only one I can talk to...she understands me.

Me: It doesn't do any good to talk to OW about OUR problems.
You need to talk to me bout our problems.

WH: I can't...I don't know why...you don't know me.

Aaaarrggh! I've known him for nearly 20years! the problem is I know him better than he knows himself. He can talk to her because they speak the same alien language. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Confused: I agree with everything in your post!! Gosh, they are so predictable! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Hope:

Have you exposed your WW to everyone that is important to her? Have you exposed her OM to everyone that is important to him and her? My FWW feared more exposure than anything else and I used that to get her to stop the affair.

You should not make deals with her. If you think the affair is still on....and it is, then get the proof anyway you can and use it against her. Quit being Mr. nice guy. Fight fire with fire. This is a war and the family is the prize. Too many people are too nice and they end up divorced. I would let her know you wont be there when her OM leaves her. If she thinks you will always be there, why not have fun till its over then come home. The problem is you are the one who pays the price.

TooSoon

Sendme, funny my WW said she had the A to "hurt me" also for my exposure to her family and work. I could think of a thousand other ways to hurt me, but she chose the most hurtful way...ouch!

I am almost looking forward to that feeling of "she can't hurt me anymore" as you felt during your divorce. I want to know if she was miserable prior to the seperation or was she happy? I remember you saying your WW was happily telling everyone that you were getting divorced. How and why did she go from happy to miserable...what happened? My WW seems relatively happy and unfazed by all this.

C42, they think their situations are so unique don't they? They are the only ones who know what the feel and what they are going through. Everyone else doesn't know what they are talking about.

TooSoon, after my DD birthday party last night (she turned 4) my WW and I came home and I could tell something was bothering her so I asked "is everything ok?". She said she overheard her mother and my mother talking about her best friend and called her a few derogatory names.

So my WW thinks my parents know about her A and she then said "do you want to go through a mediator or through a lawyer?". Well suprisingly I wasn't completely shocked by this question and replied "I won't talk about that, I'll only talk about marriage and doing what we have to ensure we have a happy marriage".

Her response was "Then I will get a lawyer then" to which I replied "You do what you have to do...I'm ready whenever you want to discuss building a new, happy marriage".

Then I asked her why she feels she can't come back to which she started crying and saying she doesn't want people talking about her and thinking bad things of her. She started getting upset so I let her cry for a while and told her there is always a way back.

So how can I deal with this belief on her part that people think she is an adultress (even though she is) and how can I explain to her that people will overlook this if we can restore our M. She is having a tough time getting over the exposure and that is why I'm a little gun shy with more exposure right now. Any advice?

If she if afraid of the exposure, I would use that to my advantage, because when she brings up lawyers and separtion, I would say fine, but I just want you to know that if you go through with that everyone is going to know you were the adultress who broke this family apart. But on the other hand, I'm willing to forgive and work on the marriage if you are.

Maybe that would turn her around.

I'm confused. She had the affair to hurt you for exposing the affair? The affair came first, not the exposure!


Hope, my WH said the same thing and it tore my heart out until I saw through it. One of the last days before our final divorce hearing I asked if he was still sure it was what he wanted. He shrugged his shoulders and started crying, said he was too ashamed and that he couldn't face my family, our friends, etc. I told him all he needed to be concerned about was me and if I could forgive him, nobody else mattered. He replied it was different for me because I'm not the one who looks bad.

God that tore me apart! I wanted him back so desperately and it appeared that he wanted to come back but was too ashamed. Then I regained my senses. There was some truth in what he said, he is ashamed and worries what people think about him. But if he says he's not coming back because he's too ashamed of what he did, it kind of makes him look good and deflects the responsibility of his actions.

I thought, wait a minute, when he wanted the A he stopped at nothing. He didn't care what anybody thought, only what he wanted. I emailed Melody Lane just to be sure. I asked "If he really wanted to come back, he would, right? He wouldn't let shame stop him? Melody confirmed it and said yes, he would come back if he really wanted to. My feet were again firmly planted back on the ground.

Hope, what I'm about to say isn't consistent with MB advice but I'll tell you what changed my WH's thoughts and actions. I had totally given up on our marriage and wanted this he11 I was in over with quickly. I was going to meet with him at his attorney's office so he could draw up the temp stipulations. I decided if I did nothing else, I was going to handle this with grace and class, and I could have my breakdown when I got home.

I bought a new outfit and walked in there with my head held high. There was no bitterness in me. I was friendly and flirty with him and his lawyer. I told him I just wanted out and wanted it over with quickly. (Hey, those were his words early on!) I asked if we could make the temporary hearing a final one. We left and he asked if he could sit in the car and talk to me.

For the first time he cried and said he was sorry, told me that I never wanted to give him any loving(sex), etc. I didn't do much talking. I didn't cry, I just listened and smiled. I told him to get counseling and he said he would (hasn't yet). We left and he was getting in his truck crying looking at me like he just lost his best friend. He had.

My WH is slowing coming around. What works for me is backing off. Acting like I have moved on seems to be a turn on for him. I don't ask if he made his counseling appt., I don't ask about OW, etc. He is spending more and more time here with us. I get hugs, kisses, I love you, I miss you. But I don't push. I have come to realize it will turn around on his timeframe, not mine.

Askme, wouldn't that be considered a threat and be a LB'er?

Shattered, before the initial exposure back in July it was an EA (or so she tells me) and it turned PA 2 months after that. So basically the EA progressed to a PA after my initial exposure and when I found out she said it was done to hurt me.

She could have fooled me since it sure sounded like she was having fun...go figure that one out.

You may be right about the shame aspect. It sure didn't stop her from making it a PA after my exposure so why would it stop her from coming back?

What I find is really starting to wear on me is the lies, deceipt and dishonesty more than the actual A.

I remember reading one of Sendme's post where he said his WW wasn't meeting any of his EN's and he still didn't cheat because he chose not to. That is kind of how I feel right now even though I find myself yearning to have my EN's met.

I am ripe for an A right now. All it would take is for a good looking women with a desire for SF who shows me some affection and admiration...and it would be soooo hard to resist. I saw it happening last night at my DD birthday party. Several women came over to talk to me (some married some not) and were nice and admiring. It made me feel good inside and had me wanting more. I'm guarding myself strongly right now.