I'm like Mel, I would love to know every piece of information on the OM. You have to wonder who else he has had on the line, or how many times he has been married, or if he is married and how many times he has done this stuff. I'll tell you what surprises me about him, is that he is too comfortable with a huband knowing what is going on. During my sex addition days I made the choice of calling a married woman at home. I had already called her a couple of times. Her husband happened to be there this one time I called and when she answered she let me know he was there, so I hung up. He *69ed the phone and called me back and I managed to lie my way through, but that was the last time I ever called a married woman. I didn't even email her again. I was nervously shaking, watching my back for a month after that.

So my point is, this guy must be a real player to be so comfortable about knowing a husband is watching his case.

Mel, I do agree. I guess I'm just not sure how you explain that to a 4&5 year old. But if you were that age and you understood what was going on, then I guess you just come right out with it. My attorney, who just happened to be the state's AG at one time, has raised 4 or 5 children who are extremely successful and morally grounded. He told me not to tell my son that dad has a girlfriend. [I sheepishly thought ooops-already did!] He said he will figure it out himself. His feeling was that if I was to start putting ideas in son's head, than DS would start to want to protect and defend dad. He said that by the time my DS is grown, he will clearly see that this OW brought about the destruction of his family. He said something about I will be the one who he invites to visit with his children, not WH.

The other week we (DS and I) were having dinner with a family friend. DS was very angry about the situation that day and proceeded to tell us that dad has had this girlfriend for over a year. He went on to describe some things dad did with OW at a sledding party in Feb. when my DS was there. [Was gone too long on a snowmobile with her, left son at party and drove her to her car and again was gone too long.] I was shocked that he picked up on all this. I also wonder if he had red flags at the time or was it in hindsight.

So I guess you are right Mel. Come right out and tell them the truth and tell them you do not support her decision and it is morally wrong.

Remember this saying?
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Ditto for me. At the time I was completely UNABLE to wrap my mind around the fact that my husband was committing adultery AND lying to me. Just could not grasp it. Believe me, I can now!

Hope, do not kid yourself. People have sex in offices all the time, especially after hours.

Hope, Presents are wrapped right? How do you know what's in them? Secondly, you can be sure she bought OM lots of presents. She would not bring them with the group gifts, it would be an intimate gift exchange between them. Maybe last night at the office? You also said she was getting out early today. Is early for her the time most other people leave the office? A lot of offices close early the day before the Christmas holiday. So, if she comes home at 5, she may have gotten off at 2 or 3.

Stay strong Hope. You can make it through this. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Well the PI has started hiw work today and will be tapping into her cell calls to see what she is up to and what her plans are (i.e. rendesvous with OM).

I expect they will uncover some solid info for me that I cna use.

Mel, good point about OM life. I will see if they can get me a bio on OM.

Remember when I recored my WW PA on Oct 7 she said it was a one time deal and was a mistake. She aplogized to me and OM (go figure) and said it wouldn't happen again. If I find new evidence then all bets are off and she will have to suffer the consequences of her actions. I love her, but she can keep doing this to me or my family.

{{{{Hope}}}}}

You sound good hope. I hope you can enjoy this season with your kids. They are at great ages. Don't let the rest of this stuff detract from that. Try and see Christmas through their eyes and have some fun.

Take care of yourself.

Shattered, considering all that is happening to me, I do feel good. I will try to enjoy Christmas as much as I can. The kids do make this easier for me not to focus soley on the M and A.

I just found out the the PI started work yesterday afternoon and followed my WW after work <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

This is what happened...

WW leaves the office with her wretched girl friend and they go to liquor store to by some stuff. Then they proceed to Chinese takeout. Then they go to a house 15 minutes away and in the area where I suspect OM lives. The both go inside (I'm not sure if they took the takeout with them). Shortly after they come out and they proceed to pickup WW friend's kids from daycare. Then my WW drive friend and kids home and then makes her way to our home.

BTW my wife came home with 4 bottles of wine. Her friend doesn't drive and I can't help but feel my WW is a freakin taxi for her. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

If this is where OM lives this would be first time I am aware of that WW has been there. Her friend is defenitely enabling the A and it makes me sick. This is a very good start for PI and I am now anticipating D-day #3. I'm praying for some "paydirt" type pictures or video.

I feel sad knowing this and knowing that I will have to hurt my WW again with exposure. This time it could get really ugly if the evidence is good. I really don't want to hurt her even though she is putting me through he11.
She will think it is revenge or punishment for sure.

OK guys I need your help with developing a plan.

I would really like to get Mortarman's advice as well since he can provide me with a good strategy.

So, assuming I get "paydirt" type evidence, what next?

Who do I expose to? Her family for sure, friends? work? This part worries me since I want to give an open door back. Will over exposure hurt?

Should I expose and continue Plan A for a while and see if she just leaves?

Should I go into Plan B first and then expose?

Do i give her an ultimatum which is not MB practice?

Feel free to shoot away with suggestions. I want a plan I can stick with and feel good about no matter what the outcome.

I think she may have met up with him today as well since it was the last time they had together before Christmas. I just have a gut feeling that will hopefully be confirmed by PI next week.

This PI is doing good so far.

Will her knowing that I hired a PI be a major LB'er?

Sorry for all the questions.

When I began exposing, I found out how bad my FWW hated me for it. Most importantly, I found out who she didn't want me to tell. I started exposure and as the affair continued, I told more people. It was a stairstep process for me but I did not tell her mother and co-workers. She did not want them to know.

When I hit the end of my rope, when the OM showed up in my MC's parking lot to taunt me, I told my FWW that she make a choice, him or I. If she chose him, I was going to her workplace the next day and her mother's house the next day and make everyone aware of her affair. That was the final straw and that is what it took for me to give her the ultimadum. She agreed to quit her job that day and quit seeing the OM. She did quit both and Recovery began.

Exposure worked for me in that manner. Was it as taught in MB, not exactly, but it worked. My FWW lived the life of a Christian and made others believe she was very moral but at the same time, she was cheating, lying, and living a double life. I think you must find your WW's "hot button" or the deal breaking button and work it. I would guess the evidence found by your PI will help in winning custody and that will likely be the best tool for you to have over your WW's head. It is like Blackmail but there are no rules when someone enters your house to take away your family against your will.

The pain endured by the WS as a result of the affair must become greater than the reward the affair brings the WS for the affair to end, in my opinion. Of course, you want to be positioned (a good plan A) to be the person she chooses to come back to, once you assist and orchestrate in ending the affair. WS's are like Vampires. They don't want anyone to know they are sucking every ounce of blood out of their BS's vains so the last thing they want is you exposing the affair to the light of day.

Keep up your good work.

TooSoon

When I exposed, it ended the A. Pretty sure of that. My WW hated me so much for exposing that she immediately talked with D attorneys and moved to the guest bedroom. We're past that phase now.

Recently in our Group MC, WW mentioned how I had exposed and that she was still upset about it. The group pretty much shot her down. She was surprised at that. I think it was the first confirmation she had received that exposure is a fair and reasonable thing to do in the face of an affair. Before that she'd thought I had done a terrible thing to her by exposing.

Just a thought HTW. If you should end up exposing further, it could help if you could find an outside party to tell your WW that exposing is fair and reasonable thing for you to do. That could save your M some pain.

Wishing you well this Christmas season.

I'll help you out in that department..send her my way Hope...or you can have Melody Lane do it....she certainly has a way with words too!! :-)

Seriously though...I'm thinking of you, Hope and everyone else going through this

You know I'm sitting here wondering about you WW going into a house. The only houses I have ever felt comfortable walking into was those who were close friends and the ones I had affairs with. It sounds like the PI is at least onto something. If he at least got a picture of her going in his house that shows she has access.

For the next step, once the PI has finished up, if he has some goods on her, which I think he will, plus remember you have her car in his work parking lot, so you know she lied to you. I would tell her this. Tell her that you had a PI follow her and would she like to come clean about what all she has done with the OM. Don't tell her when, or what you know, you want her to tell you. This is a good interogation technique to get more information from her. Tell her if she doesn't tell you that you plan to show the tapes and pictures to her family, work and friends. That you are sick of her behavior and you want it to stop.

Don't worry about this being a love buster, sometumes you just have to lay the truth out there to get the point across love bust or not.

And I would tell her she had a choice, the OM or you, but for right now she needed to move out until she got the choice right. She could go stay with her parents or whereever she needed to go, but she needed to figured it out, but you weren't doing down without a fight. Your intent is to save your marriage, but she has been resistent. She can move out and when she thinks she wants to come home, let you know and you will be glad to work on the marriage with her.

Man I have been praying for you and I think something you have to be is tough. I am in a group of men who have dealt with sexual addiction and I can honestly say that when their wives put their foot down and said move out until you can choose, it's didn't take long for them to make up their minds. THey were crying and sobbing like babies for days begging to come home.

Hope, Do not tell her you have a PI following her. He will not be able to do his job if she is watching for someone. She doesn't need to know "how" you know - you just do.

P.S. Merry Christmas! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Do not tell your WW that you have a PI following her!!! I think that is a very bad idea. Whatever short term gain you would get by doing so would be counterbalance by the steep long term lost of this action. Just as you would not give your enemy your war plan, you should not tell your WW of your tactics. And trust me, this is war, as MM is fond of saying.

I know it’s a bad time, but I hope you have a merry Christmas!

Hope, get the dirt on her, then expose her all over again. Start with her workplace and then work down a priority list. This should be done in Plan A, however, I don't see how it makes any difference for me to recommend Plan B since you refuse to go into Plan B. I won't waste my breath on that again.

Exposure is not a "lovebuster." A lovebuster is:

Selfish Demands
Disrespectful Judgments
Angry Outbursts
Annoying Habits
Independent Behavior
Dishonesty


Doing or saying anything she doesn't like is not a lovebuster. Nor does exposure "hurt her;" her affair is what is hurting her. If you exposed her for winning a creative writing prize would you feel that "hurt" her? Of course you wouldn't. Because it is not the exposure that hurts her, but her OWN ACTIONS. Exposing her is HELPING her by forcing her to face the consequences of her own actions. If she doesn't like being exposed, then she should stop doing things she doesn't want exposed. It's real damn simple.

I feel she has successfully manipulated you, with the help of that useless counselor, into thinking that exposing her is BAD. No, it is not. Having an affair and lying and defrauding your family is BAD. Exposure is the solution.

I think Askme was suggesting telling WW about PI once the investigation is over. I still don't know how I will proceed until I get all the info.

I must say that this Christmas was the worst ever by far. My energy level is critically low and I have a tough time even looking at my WW in the face, espcially now that I know she may have been at OM house.

It really bothers me that after taking my DS to the doctor because he was ill and throwing up, she stated she had to go to work and may have to work late for starting late.

Then I find out she went to OM house with her friend during work. It makes me sick that she would choose that over staying with her sick son. I'm loosing respect for her quickly.

Then she comes home and treats them like everything is fine and is happy to see them and plays with them. What a freakin hypocrite.

Mel, you said I won't do Plan B. That is not true, I just don't know when the best time will be. Will going to Plan B right after exposure hurt my cause? I can't take much more of this. She will be getting alot more of the stick of Plan A than the carrot from here on in. I don't have much more to give her.

Hope, how exactly will you do Plan B if you won't ask her to leave? Or prevent her from taking your kids and assets?

p.s. you should expose first and then go into Plan B after you have assured her there is still a place in the marriage for her if she straightens up and flies right. You don't want Plan B to look like punishment, so you will want to wait at least a couple of weeks before you go dark.

Once my FWW was out of the fog, she said she felt like scum for hurting and lying to the kids. My son said to me during the aftermath of DD, "If your own mother lies to you, who can you trust in this world?" During the fog, she lied to everyone probably everyday. You must break the affair and the WS must not have any contact before she will begin to act like a real wife and a mother again. The addiction is tough to break.

I understand how a person can fall out of love and lose respect for their WS and I think that is why Dr. H promotes Plan B so some love can be preserved for the WS within.

TS

Mel, I will eventually ask her to leave and feel like doing so right now. She will not leave without the kids or some of the assets.

If the PI can wrap up his investigation in a couple of weeks and I expose immediately, then I will Plan A for another few weeks (if she doesn't leave).

After I expose she will threaten to have me served in days like last time and this time she just might. I'm at a point where I am looking forward to a seperation to relieve me from this constant agony.

Hopefully I will be able to use some of the PI info in a custody dispute. I don't want my kids involved with kind of crap.

The exposure will seem like punishment to her for sure. As Mortarman said, she needs a crisis and hopefully this will create a major one for her and OM.

For our M to have any luck she will have to leave her job, OM and even girl friend behind. That will be a HUGE task.

She is just acting so "as if" about everything that it really disturbs me. DO these WS have any remorse at all?

I just wish I had a decent chance at full custody. Usually the mother seems to have the best chance at full custody unless the father can prove some sort of neglect.

I don't know if the information I have will be enough and that scares me. My fear is throwing awasy 50/50 custody at a chance at full custody to loose it all.

She doesn't feel like she needs to tell me anything now and will do things like say goodbye to the kids and ignore me or very seldomly ask for my approval on anything.

If I get "paydirt" proof I will talk to both BILs about visiting OM. He needs to be "scared" a little since he is probably making fun of me right now.

Once I find out where he lives, he is in for some suprises.

WW girlfried from work is on 2 weeks holidays now so it will be interesting to see how she spends her time at work. I hope I get some good stuff on her.

One problem I forsee is my WW has made me into a wacko husband at her work and how do I expose again and be taken seriously? Do I go even higher up?

I want OM to suffer and feel the pain I have been feeling. He is scum I hope he suffers the consequences of his appauling actions. The thought of them in our family car with 2 car seats in the back still haunts me and probably always will.

HTW:

Hope the holidays were happy for your children. These times no doubt suck for you. Sorry <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I have to ask you a question though. I am kind of confused of why you think you need "paydirt" proof to "scare" the OM (considering what you already have with the "car" proof) and more interestingly, why is it that you think he is only "probably making fun of me now"....WTF is that about? The time for "making" fun of you was months ago. What he has done (and your WW primarily) to you and your children goes so far past the line of "making fun of you" that I really question if you yourself have your head on straight.

I understand the severe, soul crushing hel& you are in, but come on now. I think the time for Plan B has passed, but you have been advised by many people to do this and you continue to to be in stark denial about this. I read your posts and wonder if your posts are "bumped" from old posts. I have to look at the date to make sure I am not posting to a post made in October...that's probably not good.

I know your scared...but I think your own "fog" is probably as bad as your WW's.

You are a big guy and you are an adult and I presume can make adult decisions. One should not make decisions based on what they DON't WANT...but rather on what they want.

I feel for you, but I fully believe that you stay mired in Hel* because you choose to. Maybe that is not any solace to you, but at least you can feel a little "empowered" by it. At least that is something.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />