Mel, this has taken alot out of me and I can't imaging going on like this indefenitely. It will surely deplete all the love I have for my WW. How can that be good?

Will it be good for the kids to have two parents who barely talk to each other? I can imagine your response already.

So are you proposing that I go on like this indefenitely?

Look at C42 situation above...she is at her wits end and has resorted to LB'ing. This is what I'm talking about.

"I would never keep the kids from you, dear. You can visit them anytime you want. No one is asking you to leave."


You don't need to prepare for anything, Hope. You don't have to win a debate with a fogged out person. You only have to make her understand that a) she won't be leaving with the kids and b) she won't be taking any of your assets. No money, no nothing. So sorry, dear. SMILE SWEETLY.

And if she gets upset, tell her you are sorry she is so upset.

Hope, I imagine she is plannning on moving, so this probably won't be an issue. If she really wants to move, she will. But you shouldn't help her destroy your family by allowing her to take the kids, the money, the assets.

Hey, Hope. I've taken a different approach. I have made my WW a bit suspicious that there is another woman kinda waiting in the wings. In the last 2 days, I've gone from saying I will fight for custody, to wholeheartedly agreeing to a LS. And doing it enthusiastically!! I'm showing her I'm ready to move on. I gave her a Plan B letter, but it is one that barely touches on the aspect of reconcilation. Only that no one knows what the future holds. Basically a 180, and after the crap you and I have been through, it feels kinda nice not having her in the house!! So there is that option of going a bit against MB principals, and shock her with YOU filing a LS. But I'm certainly no expert here, but at the point I was at, this was kind of a last resort.

Mywife, I've been following your story and I'm sorry to hear what has transpired over the last week or so. I hope one day she crashes, but will you want to reconcile? That will be your desicion to make if that presnts itself to you.

Trust me, I am very tempted to agree to a LS just to stop the madness. I'm glad you got primary custody of the kids and it amazes me how a parent would willingly give up on their kids.

I'm glad you have some relief in your life right now. How is you mom doing anyway? I know it is early, but how is your relationship with WW once she left?

I remember MM suggesting to file once WS leaves the house. Really, I can't see my WW just leaving. She has no where to go and won't leave without the kids.

She will think I'm trying to trap her by using the kids and assets.

At this point, is there any point in trying to avoid doing things she won't think are machinations to get her to do something in her best interests? She apparently believes that of everything you've proposed in the past and she responds favorably to nothing. In that respect, she's got you tied around her little finger. You keep trying and she keeps putting you down. Isn't it time to stop letting her manipulate you with the "you're just trying to trap me..." statement?

I can not say it any better!!

Hope...what I meant about proposed visitation is....make her tell you what she wants...and you counter..

She will want "physical" custody...split 50-50...make her propose the days, times, every little detail needs to be her work not yours....

during my divorce I made her lawyers do ALL the work...all of it..cause SHE paid for her lawyers...so when she says...Sunday - Wednesday at 6pm is me, you're Wednesday at 6:01- Sunday (beware of tying up YOUR weekends!!)10AM...ask her....what about Christmas? What about birthdays (yours, theirs, etc.)...Hope...make her think about it....and then agree or counter...make this a business transaction...When it came to that for me....it was the art of the deal.....

that was all I meant..

As far as assets go...what does she want? Make her spell it out...make sure you CLOSE joint accounts..All of them...you're entitled to all of it as a joint holder....and then in the kindness of your heart you'll give her her share....see what I am getting at...BE IN CONTROL of it...before she sues for divorce, custody and takes all your money o puts you in debt....

/off soap box again

Believe it or not I saw her list of desired assets that include the following:

- bedroom set
- televsion and stand
- coffee tables
- hallway plant table
- family SUV
- treadmill (can't forget that)
- plus half the equity in our home

So there you have it.

On what grounds can she sue for divorce, custody and my money?

Hope, if you do that, make her do all the work and make sure you get custody of the kids, the home and the assets. But make her file and then counter with extravagant demands with the help of your attorney.

Mel, what is your reasoning behind this strategy and what kind of extravagant demands are you refering to?

BTW, we didn't have our "plans for future" talk last night because my WW fell asleep as I was reading the kids their bed time stories. So this morning she said she would like to have it tongight. And she asked so nicely too, I can see right through her cheap manipulaion ploy. She is so sweet and nice when she wants something.

Why can't she be that nice during other talks?

She is surely trying to soften me up prior to her offer. I expect threats and demands when I tell her my offer.

This should be interesting and I'm kind of looking forward to it for some strange reason. I guess I'm tired of not having control of the situation and this may give me some control back.

Also, a friend of WW talked to my MIL and suggested that I move out to give WW some time. My MIL told her why should he go, he won't leave the kids. I was glad to hear that fro her, but it looks like my WW is trying to get me to leave the house.

Because the "extravagant" demands give you room to negotiate and compromise on lesser issues later.

Longhorn and Mel are right. In negotiations, if you ask for more in the beginning, you tend to get more in the end.

Hope you asked what grounds can your wife sue on, unless you have done something we don't know about, then her only option in most states would be something like "unreconcilable differences". In some states that process takes at least a year of separation to accomplist. That means the two people must be in separate homes and cannot have contact in each others home or behind closed doors together at any time.

As far as unreconcilable differences, it then becomes a negotiation of 50/50 for most states and 50/50 custody unless one parent is proved unfit.

Now in your case I think you can file a motion for adultery. Adultery weights more in your favor. Most states speed up the process for the divorce and give more consideration to the spouse who was faithful.

Hope....how it works here in NY is splitting the assets also means splitting the debt. What about a car for her? What about credit card debt? Any other loans on the cars??

Add up the value of EVERYTHING (Marital assets see attorney for definition it is very different depending on what liberal state you live in), subtract debt owed on it and multiply by 50%. That is what she would be entitled to. Make sure you don't give away asset but keep the debt....

Second...she is going to ask you to leave because that is EASIEST for her. Remember she wants the kids and her "stuff"...don't make it that easy.....

Whatever you do, please don't leave your home and children to WW.

True, I forgot about outstanding debt. In our state they look at all the outstanding debt and divide that up too so the spouse get a part of that.

Also, in our state 401K and retirement accounts are considered assets which are taken into account. If you or your wife has them they are considered something that can be split. And don't let her hide anything like a friend of mine tried to do from his wife. He tried hiding his stock plan and they caught him and also got him for contempt of court.

I will NOT be leaving my kids or my home, if my WW wants to leave she can but the kids stay in their home.

I'm preparing for the pity speech from her that she is so miserable and she needs space and we can try again later all to get me to cave into her wants. She will try to manipulate me as usual and when I say that I'd prefer that she stay however if she really wants to leave then she can leave, I'm sure she will get upset and start with the demands or threats.

I was feeling fine yesterday and now for some reason I'm starting to feel anxious. This needs to get better soon.

Hope, remember you have the position of power. This is like a negotiation and the person with the position of power sets the stage. You get to say, you committed adultery, I have not. You want to leave the marriage, I do not. So if you want to leave, leave now and walk out. Tell her you are not listening to her crap and to leave is that is how she feels. Either get out now or quit talking about it and start working on the marriage. Tell her this is her last chance to walk out the front door and you mean it.

Trust me Hope, put some force in it and make her choose what she is going to do. Force her off the fence.

How's it going HTW?

Last night I noticed my WW writing some sort of list and asked her about it. It turns out it is the list of our assets and she even summarized the legal seperation terms for me on plaper (how nice of her).

So I said I don't want to see the list since that stuff is for lawyers to deal with. The she said if I don't do it this way she will have me served with LS papers. I said I hope it doesn't come to that .

I told her that if she wants to leave so bad, she can leave now or start working on the M.

She said "you want me to leave with nothing and I will never do that".

The she admitted she has seen a lawyer and told me I to get one also.

Then it was time for her to point out everything I have screwed up and why she will "never" go back. When I said the "door is always open" she got upset started crying and said I took away her dignity when I exposed. She says people have pity for me and say there is that ******.

She said she now knows what she is capable of from a guy, refering to OM of course. I guess he is really good and making her feel good and laying it on.

I LB'ed when I said I wish she would put as much effort into our M as she has with her focus on seperation. She got upset and said comments like that are exactly why I won't work on our M.

She told me to "screw you" and "f*** you" a couple of times.

Just so much anger and resentment towards me and her cold planning is so painful for me.

So looks like we are stuck in this unproductive state.

go to go...