Okay, I understand where you're coming from. You're beaten down and a man (or woman) can only take so much.

Been there. So I'll take a different tack. Please be VERY careful the woman coming to work in your section isn't just being polite and friendly. When I was where you are, I was exceptionally vulnerable and tended to interpret such overtures incorrectly.

I'm not an expert at this but it seems to me it's time for Plan B. Could the experts comment on that?

I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. Normally I am very conservative when it comes to these things and look where it got me? Right now I am ready to throw all caution to the wind and say giddyup pardner! to the first cowboy that saddles up to me. Honestly, I don't think I'd act on my feelings but damn I just want a piece of exactly what you described above.

You know what I really want most of all? I want WH to watch someone else walk into my life and say WOW, You blind fool! If you don't want her step out of the way because I damn sure do!

I realize I'm probably hurting more than helping here. I guess I should just say we probably all feel this way but we don't have to act on it. Boy, they sure do know how to bring us back down to earth on this site! Yeesh! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Shattered, I can almost say with certainty that if the above happened, your WH would be knocking the door in to get you back. When he starts to see you slipping away, that is when he will come back.

Really, I don't think anything will happen between me and my work colleague...not in the near future anyway.

I know one thing for certain, whether it is my defogged W or someone else, I will have that person doing back flips for me after all I've learned about EN's and LB'ing. I really, really hope it is my WW, but if she decides to take another path, someone else will be extremely happy.

Tonight I asked my WW if she thinks we should bring our DD to bed since she fell asleep in my car on the way home from my parents house. My WW said, "why are you asking my imput, you don't ask me for any imput on other stuff".

I will admit that I have been withdrawing from her lately and have LB'ed with independent behaviour. So I will try to include her in the things I do. I wish she would see that she is LB'ing herself with her IB towards me.

Also, my WW's godmother found out that my WW is planning on leaving from my MIL and called my WW yesterday. Well she is divorced from her first husband who had a severe drinking problem and basically told her to think twice about what she is doing. That the romantic feelings she has for the OM will not last. That raising our children with an other man would be wrong. She told her that even though she left because of her XH drinking, she still regrets the decision.

I know my WW respects her godmother very much so I was very glad to hear her call.

I'm glad her Godmother called her. I love to hear about people who aren't afraid to speak out for moral values. Afterall, it seems to be counterculture these days.

Hope, has your WW said anything more about moving out since it is the new year?

I am liking what I hear Hope....see...your WW like my fWxW walked down the path away from us...and from experience I will tell you there are many reasons why they won't walk backwards down the path they originally chose. Remember, their affairs mean they have FAILED...and we all know ho wthey don't like to admit failure...imagine what a failure it is to "come back"? That being said. Work on YOU. In my case, I had long given up on her and was involved with someoen else for a spell...and that is where I caution you. I hurt a great person by trying to work out things with XW. I was honest and forthright and this Xgf still thought I was worth it! You'll get there....just be careful...

Godmother's call? Will have little bearing on your WW....just MHO....

Shattered, she hasn't mentioned anything about moving out or seperation since Dec 19th when she said "would you like to go through a mediator or lawyer?". My reply to her at the time was what Mortarman suggested, "I don't want to talk about that, I will only talk about M. Lawyers can talk about seperation".

I really think she wants me to make it easy for her and agree to seperate.

Sendme, she has told me repeatedly that she can't come back after what has happened. I think you are bang on when you say that she realizes she failed and if she comes back I will be the good guy and she will be forever known as the adultress. She even said this to me a few times.


Probably, true in the short term since she doesn't seem to care about anybody's opinion right now except her girl friend at work. I do think what people are saying that truly love her will eventually start to sink in when she comes out of the fog. Who knows when that will be.

As for my co-worker, she is a great girl and she has so much to offer. The best part is she doesn't really know it. The last thing I would want is to hurt her so I will keep distant emotionally from her.

Are you still in touch with your XGF?

Hope...what your W needs to understand is that there will be a group that looks at you as INSANE for still wanting to be with her. Now clearly not all feel that way. However, we had friends who were not really friends during our separation. People who thought that spreading half truths and innuendos helped us with our pain regarding our divorce. A woman she worked with was supposedly friends with us. During the divorce and my struggles regarding the kids this friend "turned" on XW by constantly giving me details (or perceived details" of her R with old EA partner. She made sure that I knew everyone She also made assumptions about me because I would not "date" any of her friends...I told her I was "too busy"...When we got back together, this so called friend was basically "called out" on the comments and innuendos mainly because Xw and I held ourselves accountable for our actions during separation and divorce. That meant everything this "friend" said to us was discussed. It was not pretty. See these people thought I was CRAZY for still wanting anything to do with her. This is just one set. My own mother, brother and my best friend thought I was crazy. They accept my decisions though and are past it already. Well, except my mother. Understand, No one knows about her PA except her best friend and I ( and the participants of course).

No contact w Xgf since the week after I broke it off. She sent me an e-mail telling me she understood and thanking me, it was quite nice. I did not respond. Since finding this site and understanding how things go I made the right call. Understand, I harbor nothing but good feelings for this person and would be humble in her presence. I hurt her and I feel bad for it. I was honest with her from the onset. I still care about her, her well being, etc. I can't help it. There was nothing inherently wrong with our relationship other than in my heart she was #2...these feelings I had for her certainly make me understand how people have affairs....when there is an apparent tug and you're too weak to choose...

Just received a call from my WW saying she wants to talk about our "future plans". I don't think she wants to talk about working things out instead it will be about how to seperate.

Honestly, I need a break from this and I am leaning towards giving in to the seperation. We are at a standstill it seems right now and our M isn't getting any better. At least I will be able to do a Plan B that way and get on with my life.

I feel so bad for my kids.

Hope, now is the time to call your lawyer and make sure you have everything in place to protect your assets and kids.

If she is going to discuss "future plans", I would be ready to tell her my version of future plans and not listen to her version. It sounded like you weren't getting anywhere with the PI anyway, and you already have enough evidence between the tape of her in the car, and her car in the parking lot of the OM's office. I say go for PLAN "B" launch.

Askme, what exactly are you suggesting?

BTW, I have a meeting with my lawyer in 1 hour. Any questions I should ask him?

Ok, let's say the "future talk" is "I want to separate".

If she makes that statement to you, you need to be prepared. So you need to ask the lawyer if you separate, what do you need to do to retain primary custody of the kids and retain the house for their care. You need to know what to do the second she says I want to leave, because you need to respond with your answer of "Then leave, I want you out of the house until you can break off your feelings for the OM and decide you want to return to this marriage." In other words you are giving her what she wants, but you are actually putting PLAN B in place and not giving her what she wants on her terms. To do that you need your lawyers advice step by step how to remove her from the home legally and ensure you have primary custody of the kids.

Just got back from talking with my lawyer and I feel better about my situation.

He said my finances are safe and I don't need to take any extraordinary precautions other than monitoring the accounts. I will be cancelling our joint credit card and accounts as my WW suggested since I don't like my hard earned money going towards her lifestyle.

He said to listen to her and if she wants to seperate to tell her the she can leave anytime, but not with the kids or any assets...sure sounds alot like Melody <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

He said not to offer any finacial support for a new place if she decides to go that route.

He said the mother had almost automatic custody 20 years ago, but things are different now and he thinks I have a good shot at custody if it goes there.

The only thing I worry about is if I say this and she hunkers down, then we are both in a miserable marriage. How does that help?

I think my WW sees that I am wearing down and see an oppourtunity to get me to cave in. I'm sure she will try to negotiate tonight by saying I won't have to pay CS or she won't ask for half of my retirement savings.

You probably want to make sure you immediately open up your own checking account and make sure your work deposit is going into it if you are not doing that already.

And I agree with him, if she says I want to leave, I would tell her LEAVE, but you are not having the house, and you aren't taking the kids. And you are own your own.

Don't give in to any demands Hope. Stand firm.


Ephesians 6
13Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.

14Stand firm therefore, HAVING GIRDED YOUR LOINS WITH TRUTH, and HAVING PUT ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS,

15and having shod YOUR FEET WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE GOSPEL OF PEACE;

16in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.

Ask, I know she will turn it around on me and say why would you keep the kids from me or how could you ask me to leave with nothing, no kids no money?

She will say I'm not leaving just seperating, why would you want to punish me for wanting to split everything evenly?

I'm trying to prepare for her accusations that I am mean or doing this to punish her. How should I answer her claim that she would be the "best" priamry care giver.

Thanks

BTW, PI has not uncovered anything and has suggested taking a week off since people may be on holidays.

I again warn you to be careful here. Especially regarding the splitting of assets. The way I see it is if she wants out badly enough she will leave. However, if she doesn't leave and essentially wants to wear you down it will get ugly, trust me....

How as I now see it, she doesn't leave....your life continues at a miserable pace until you melt down and just want out, giving up anything and everything just to stop the madness....

As such I think you need to take control...telling her that she can leave and you'll allow her to take certain items of a personal nature and that SHE needs to propose visitation (I LOATHE THAT WORD!!)and custody...let her go....Plan B...for a certain time...until Plan D must happen. Do not allow you or your children to continue living in her h3ll.

This is what I am worried about. How do I get her to leave without giving too much. Do I make her an offer?


Again, if she stays and just lives a seperate life, it will wear me donw. I don't want this.


What do you mean "propose visitation"? Are you suggesting she comes up with what she deems acceptable with custody and visitation schedule? I already know she would agree to 50/50 but wants to be primary residence.

This is gonna be hard...you have to separate yourself a little. Keep your temper in check and babble back to her.
You could say something like..."i'm not keeping the kids from you...you are choosing to leave the family."
"I am protecting my family, it is best for the children to leave them in the home they are use to."

What if she won't leave?

edited to add: crossed posts...I just caught up.

C42, this is the million dollar question that no one seems to have an answer for. I dread this senario. The lawyer said I can't force her out so what do I do to get her to leave? Do I up the ante and give her some assets?

WOW, you mean versus the blissfully, happy marriage you are in now?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You know, she will not like you any better if you appease her. Might as well do the right thing and make that dislike worth something!

This is a question I struggle with in my situation. My WH won't leave, won't work on M. We are having a conversation tonight whether he likes it or not. If he won't leave...I guess I'll just have to make it unbearable for him...constantly ask questions about A etc...which will be major LBs. I've been in plan A for WAY TOO long...I am losing feeling for him daily. He keeps tossing crumbs...it really is not enough.