Personally, I don't see a thing wrong with the comment you made. I think it is a very valid comment. And I would not call it a LB to point out the truth. If she was putting as much effort into the marriage then maybe things would be turning around, but instead she is bend on destruction.

Hope, The anger is directed at you but I don't think you are the source of it. I think WS's are angry at themselves for the train wrecks they have made of their lives and their families and know full well that they have no one to blame but themselves.

It is much easier and less painful to blame someone else for your mistakes rather than look inside and acknowledge some huge lapses of judgement and character defects. Don't let her dump the blame on you. If we were in kindergarten, we could reply with the ever popular "I know you are but what am I?!" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I have also read that anger is fear. Think about it. Nothing in life is guaranteed. That includes relationships. She must know that as much as she believes right now that he is "the man", she must also know on some level that she could also be making the biggest mistake of her life. I wouldn't want to be in her shoes.

Great post, Shattered! I agree that the anger is not about you, Hope. She needs to demonize you in order to justify her own behavior, which she knows is wrong. You just have to make sure that you don't let her bait you into fighting with her, because that will give her ammunition against you.

That doesn't mean that you DON'T respond, but just do so without lovebusters. And remember, a lovebuster is a specific thing, it doesn't mean that you sit silently or appease her at all costs. A lovebuster is:

Selfish Demands
Disrespectful Judgments
Angry Outbursts
Annoying Habits
Independent Behavior
Dishonesty

Thanks Mel!

Hope, I think it is important to remember that just because it makes her angry, it does not mean it is a LBer.

Mel, Shattered, she has too much anger and resentment inside of her that Plan B is needed on my part very soon. I just need to figuure out how I plan on getting there when she won't leave without me signing a LS.

Mel, I am trying not to be baited into a fight but when someone you love is calling you an "******, or tells you to "f***y**", it starts to wear on you.

I told her I won't be part of destroying my family and this is not the best for our kids. The best for our kids would be to have two parents who love each other. She replied that she won't be in a miserable marriage.

She even gets upset when I try to validate her feelings by saying "I can see your feeling upset" or "I'm sorry you feel that way". Right now it seems, almost everything I say to her is turned into a negative. I listen to her and really start to wonder if I was really an "@ssh***" or a husband as she says.

Right now she is cold and calculated and it really disturbs me that my WW has become this way.

Is there anything that you might recommend that I put into the seperattion agreement that she will have trouble doing, kind of like what Mortarman did? (i.e. no contact with OM, MC, etc.).

= OXYMORON

My advice is not to look at it this way. It is not an agreement so make anything you "agree" to contensious. I am not sure of laws where you live but in NY a separation agreement basically sets forth all of the "tough stuff" of divorce, division of assets, custody, right to change name, etc. All a divorce does is disolve the legal marriage and its recogintion by the government. The other issues are generally "agreed to" because judges prefer it that way. It was in my case.

I would make it tough for her to carry on any relationship when she has the children. My XW made me agree to "calling her first if I were to leave children for more than 3 hours". Now..that really meant if I had a date and had arranged child care I had to offer her first choice. The way I handled that was by telling her "I have a date at 9:30 (after boys were in bed) if you would like to watch them come on over."....it was her way of manipulating me and "knowing" what I was doing. So...mentioning that children are in a bad state and will not be subjected to over night stays, social activities, etc. with males not married to W is not allowed. Make sure all of the children's items remain in the home. Be agreeable with teh little stuff...

Sendme are you saying I could put this into an agreement or not?

yes..put it in the agreement..you will be surprised what she agrees to if she thinks shes getting her way...

Oh, I 100% absolutely agree with send me on my way, I would want it in the separation agreement that when she has the children the OM cannot be present.

The current OM or any subsequent OM as well?

Well, considering this is something you are asking her to agree to, I would start out saying I don't want my children around any other men. I would make it clear you don't know what might happen when other men are around your kids. And you want them protected. You know Hope, they are your kids and these days, I hate to say it, but I wouldn't trust hardly any guy around my kids.

My WW and I just drafted our LS with an attorney. I HAD THE OM NAMED IN THE LS, AS TO NOT BE PRESENT WHEN MY CHILDREN ARE AROUND!!!! This was in addition to any males that WW was to be dating. She had a real problem with having OM actually named in the LS, but when I told her I would not sign it, then she caved!!!! She also agreed to live within the children's school district until they complete it!! (15 years!!) The OM is a city boy, so whatever develops from the A, won't be too flexible in terms of living desires!! And WW in this town doesn't have a very good name, so things aren't going to be too easy for her!!

EXACTLY....when my XW decided to force the issue of separation by going to Plan D I stuck with what we had already agreed upon financially. She took about half our money out of bank accounts..protecting it...I used "our money" to pay for attorneys and household expenses. When her lawyer started talking about "how" she would pay for my settlement I told her lawyer and mine that I did not care about the "how"..(knowing full well a good portion of the money was spent on attorneys)...she started balking and I stood my ground....and she took out bigger mortgage to pay me...my point...you'll be surprised what they'll do just to "get -r- done...."

Hope, the others are right, you should specify that the children not be exposed in any way to her affairs, which means no exposure to her sleazy boyfriends. He is a man if low character, and you do not want your children exposed to him.

I would also make the seperation agreement as extravagant as possible. Make the custody arrangements with you having primary custody and her having fewer days. Specify that she cannot take any furniture from your house, only her personal effects. Make it as lucrative as possible for yourself.

I will insist this be included in the LSA.


I am almost certain she won't go for me being primary custody and that means going via lawyers and court to decide.

As for the furniture, if I keep all of it, won't I have to pay her for her portion?

And tell her that you won't go for her being primary custody. After all, she is the one who is having the affair and is busting up the marriage.


No. You offer to give her nothing, or the barest minimum so she doesn't tear up your childrens home. She is not entitled to anything more than what is negotiated. And often, when a WS is destroying a family, they will agree to take very little. Just try and capitalize on that as best you can.

I have been thinking about this statement all day and it's a bunch of crock. She took her own dignity away. And what does she think she will accomplish by leaving and then spending time with the OM. Does she really think she will gain any sympathy?

Ok Hope, remember this is about negotiation and you have the upper hand. She is the one wanting out, that means she has to somewhat concede to your rules. Also, you have proof of an affair, that means you have more power over her again forcing her to concede to your rules. So, YOU CHOOSE THE RULES and DON'T LET HER RUN OVER YOU. MAKE THE AGREEMENT IN YOUR FAVOR EVEN IF IT PISSES HER OFF. Somebody has to be pissed off in the end, you don't want it to be you and your children.

So follow the advice you have heard so far about custody, keeping the house, keeping the OM away from the kids, keeping dates away from the kids, keeping the posessions in the house....etc, etc. Just let her take her things only.

Oh, another rule, one she leaves the house she can't reenter without permission.

Askme, yes she just was hoping that I would die with the A details and no one else would know. So now I am the cruel husband who took away her dignity by telling the truth and exposing.

The last time she went to OM office on Dec 22, I noticed that she dressed nicer, spent longer doing her hair and wore her special silk panties. How is that for dignity?

So I am debating whether to wait and see if she has me served or to approach her with my seperation requirements.

I would not do anything until you are served, and then counter giving her NOTHING while naming adultery as grounds. Can you have grounds?

HTW,

I would contact an attorney if I were you and I would ask them whether it is possible to put her out of the house and for you to have primary custody if you file first. I would hate to see you wait for whatever it is she files and it be an LS or TRO putting you out of the house with nothing until the divorce proceeds.

Regards,

BB