Ok, I may get angry responses for this but I am really at a point where I desperately need Plan B.

I have just about made up my mind that I will sit down with my WW to see what her list of wants are as they apply to the seperation agreement. She has already told me that she will agree to joint custody but she wants to be the primary residence. This is where I had a problem but may agree to it now as long as she agrees to certain conditions including:

- no OM in contact with my kids
- must live within 10 miles of me or kids school
- kids 4 days with her and 4 days with me (rotating)

I can't take much more of this.

Hope, Just curious. What did your attorney say about you being the primary residence? What are your chances of succeeding with that?

I'm sorry for what you are going through Hope. I know it's not easy.
S.

Hope, I'm in day 10 of WW out of the house. Plan B is wonderful, compared to the torture I've gone through (and I know you've gone through)!! Yes, there is sadness, but the everyday torture of seeing WW is gone!! And I'm pretty good at filling my time with things that I enjoy!! And for the first time in quite some time, I am enjoying things!!

Also doing things around the house that are going to save money!! (Turning the hotwater heater down 10 degrees, putting in more insulation around areas of the basement that need it, keeping the furnace setting at 63 (very comfortable for me!! as opposed to the 70 WW needed it), putting most laundry on a drying rack as opposed to running the electric dryer, keeping lights and TV's off when not in use (all 3 of our TV's were CONSTANTLY on), only showering once a week as opposed to everyday.....Just kidding!!)

Instead of driving 75 mph to work, driving 64 mph (better gas mileage!) keeping tires inflated to max inflation, combining trips and keeping all unnecessary travel down, cutting coupons, going to discount stores, shopping for phone service that has the best rate!! (saved about 25 bucks/mo. on that action!!), putting a bunch of stuff on ebay.

I'm doing this, only because, the money I save, will be put aside for things to do with kids. When WW left, I did a very precise budget, and it's going to be tight!! Down the road, I may have to get a second job (a night or two) but for now, I just want to go a few months to see where I'm at.

As for WW, I saw her on Sun. to exchange kids. It kinda sucked to see her. The next few hours were a bit depressing, but that quickly faded as I began to enjoy kids!! I'm a HUGE Steeler's fan, so this week I'll be able to get a bit excited over the entity I'll always love!! I've been pretty dark, the last 5 days, and intend to remain that way. I'm healing, slowly but surely!! I went out to a local pub on Saturday night, and had a great time!! A few very nice and nice looking females definitely were hitting on me!! Of course, I flirted, but will not allow any sort of "stuff" to happen. Would not be fair to me, them, nor my family I still have hope for. But certainly was nice to know that as word gets out, that I'm single, there is some "commotion" in the female ranks!!

I write all this to you, HOPE, so as to give you a bit of an outlook, as our situations were pretty darn similar throughout this aweful ordeal! It's definitely better than what we've been through!! At least for me!! Get there, and enjoy a bit of calmness!!

God bless, Hope.

Whew! You had me a little nervous there! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Glad to hear you are out there mixin' things up! Let's hope some of the commotion gets back to the WW! They are like spoiled children, they only want want what they can't have!

Hope,

I am sorry about your current situation. But if you give your WW primary residence, at some point in the near future you will come to regret this decision. And you will regret it for the rest of your life. Nobody said it was going to be easy, but you cannot give up on your children simply because your WW is wearing you down. That is her plan and it seems like it’s working to perfection. You cannot leave your children at the mercy of WW and OM (and future OMs). You must realize that if you two get divorce, WW will be able to bring any OM near your children whenever she wants. And if she has primary custody, you must know that your children will get to see plenty of OM(s). And if she has primary custody during separation, she most likely will get primary custody during the divorce. I know it’s hard, but you have to do the right thing for your CHILDREN.

It is when we least feel like it that our best can come out. Don’t give up. I was reading the Bible today and somewhere in Luke, Jesus was talking about having PATIENT ENDURANCE. I think that is what you need. If you stand firm, you WW will eventually give in or God will work His magic. You just have to be patient. I find a lot of comfort in praying and reading the gospels. You may want to try that. I will keep you in my prayers.

Hope, why not try first to propose that SHE move out since it is she who wants the seperation? Don't negotiate away your position before you even start negotiations. Honestly, I wouldn't consider leaving your home if and unless all other options are exhausted. You haven't even STARTED and are ready to surrender before you even get to the table.

My advice has been and remains that Hope needs to consider leaving. See I took the road that you're all advising, patience and endurance, telling her to leave it was what she wanted. As it continued to get worse and worse I was told the same things Hope's wife is saying. And you know what? I was served divorce papers and an order of protection, kicking me from my home and granting custody. He has two choices.

Serve his wife papers and kick her out

or leave

You folks don't seem to understand...how can he Plan A someone he can't stomach to look at?

It's time for Plan B...and perhaps plan D...

Unlike many WW's this one is not inclined to leave...wich would indicate to me perhaps the A is stagnant......or over..

Don’t remember the precise statistics but a rule of thumbs says that the spouse residing in the home at the time of divorce petition keeps the house.
I have also heard that in about 90% of cases the spouse with the kids at time of filing get’s prime custody.

I have always followed a “take no prisoners” line in divorce. Yes – say you are for marriage but the divorce is for lawyers. But by all means hire Attila the Hun’s direct male descendant as your lawyer and make him go for blood.

With the above statistics in mind then if this reaches the stage where Hope wants to distance from WW then he should encourage her to move.

The way I look at it: Say this ends in a divorce. Only about 1 in 20 divorces is “amicable”. If Hope is burdened with child support and alimony and has to move out of house where will he be 12 months from now? Or 3 years? Chances are he will be in a house/apartment that is too expensive for him. Too big for him alone to maintain and keep, too small for him and kids. He will be driving the same car, trying to balance work, family, “his” weekends and meeting the support and alimony payments.

I prefer the view of him living in his house and spending the money that would otherwise go to then XWW on a housekeeper. Someone to be home when kids arrive from school and finishing housework so Hope can tend to kids after work.

But Hope – although it is good to plan for options and have a picture of the future you are in the present. Don’t slip into fantasies of divorce. Pray for sun – plan for rain.

I don'[t think the affair is stagnant at all. I think thats why she wants him to hit the road, so she can get the OM in there and not have to sacrifice anything. She wants to do it in a way that she doesn't have to move or give up her kids. In other words, she wants Hope to suffer all the inconvenience so can enjoy her affair from the comfort of her home. His moving out will only ENABLE HER AFFAIR and make things easier for her.

I would suggest he get an agreement that gives him the house and primary custody, naming her adultery and naming the OM. Then let her bargain him back, if at all. But I do know that he will end up with nothing if he surrenders before he ever gets to the table.

Hi HTW,
I know how you feel. I have a small break...WH will be away in Puerto Rico until late Wed night. I'll be talking to SH in the morning to come up with some kind of plan. To live with someone who doesn't want to be with you is so draining. All that negative energy in the house. I'll let you know what Steve says maybe you could benefit from it too.
Hang in there. Remember to be kind to yourself...you do deserve it.

Shattered, my attorney said I have a good chance for primary custody but didn't give me percentages. As you know the mother seems to get consideration by default so it won't be easy.

Wehn I told my WW I would not agree to her being the primary custodian she then threatend to take me to court and ask for sole custody and the house. That really pissed me off since I have never threatened her and now she is doing that to try and get her way.

UVA, my patience is so low now that I'm just avoiding my WW so I don't love bust. I find myself saying things under my breath that would be huge LB'ers if she were to hear. This morning I said goodbye as I was going to work and she didn't even acknowledge me. That may seem insignificant to many, however when you get that every day for the past several months it really starts to drain you. Like I said before, it is the small things that she does or doens't do that are really killing me emotionally bit by bit. My love for her is at an all time low and I'm afraid I will loose all of it it this continues.

I also found out that she was working at OM office location on Friday and that hit me like a knife in the heart. I feel like a boxer who was knocked down in the first round, shook it off and continued fighting only to be knocked down again in the sixth round. Now in the 12 round I've just got my gloves up in a self defense mode. I no longer have the fight left in me. She has wore me down.

Mel, I've tried suggesting that and she has repeatedly told me that she will not leave with nothing.

Sendme, you know where I'm at and you are exactly right when you talk about Plan A'ing someone you can't even look at. Right now we are almost living seperate lives. I almost wish she would yell and scream since I could probably deal with that better than being ignored. Like I have said before, living with someone who doesn't love you is lonlier than being alone.

bigger, I have encouraged her to move and she refuses to without the kids or half the assets. She has already hired a lawyer and told me to get one. She is cold and calculated right now and it treating this like a business transaction. In fact she was creating a list of assets on her laptop spreadsheet in full view of me almost as to rub my face in it. I hate what she is doing to me.

C42, thanks and I know you are going through a tough time yourself. Looks like both you and I are overdue for Plan B. We just need to find a way to get there.

Hope, what has your attorney said about YOU getting the house, primary custody and the assets? You keep asking HER to give you stuff [stuff that is not HERS to give], why don't you instead go to your attorney and have him GET this for you?

And what about the PI? Has he gathered any intelligence?

edited to add:


But the answer does not have to be that you back down. You hold the advantage here, not her. You also have certain requirements, and remember, it is SHE who wants to leave. You have what she wants, not the other way around so you have a negotiating advantage that she does not have.

I think the answer is to have your attorney make her an offer to get out, giving you the house, primary custody and the assets. If she sees that she can't expect to get everything she wanted, then maybe she will back down since it is SHE who wants to move out so badly.

I think it would be a big mistake to not use your obvious advantage in any negotiations here, Hope. Don't surrender your leverage.

Hope..I agree with Mel on that leverage. Offer her half the stuff and half custody....kids stay in house and she moves out...that is meeting her halfway....and you're not the one leaving the house...make her move...however, if she does not accept that offer be prepared with a counter offer. Do it quickly.....

start working on the plan we talked about for after this....

Hope I think you need to go ahead and get your attorney to make the first offer. It sounds from the way your laws work the other person needs to come around to agreeing or countering, so it puts them on the defense. Throw her off balance by letting her be on the defense instead of the offense. It's obvious by what she is doing that she is out to take every bit of respect from you. She is still obviously engaged in the affair and plans on trying to fulfill her fantasy.

What about the PI? Is he still tailing her? Has he found anything?

PI is no longer tailing her and he didn't find anything incriminating, only that she was at OM office on Friday.
She didn't leave the building and rendesvous with him but was obviously in contact with him inside.

I will get the phone logs on Wednesday to see who she has been talking to.

Hope,

I understand where you are at. You need to precipitate a crisis, as Mortarman would say. Why don’t you have your lawyer make her an offer? I think that would be a shock to her system as she would not be expecting that and, as someone suggested, would put her in the defensive, a position she has not been in in a long time. This move on your part would make her want to expedite things, to your relief. Since she does not seem to listen to you, I think hearing from your lawyer would be a wake up call to her.

Well this is an email exchange between me and my WW from today. What do you think?

This was sent from me to WW...


HI WW,

I would call you only that I don't want you to get emotional so I wanted to send you this by emial...

I think you already know that I don't want this separation, instead I would like us to work towards being happily married and providing a loving home for our kids together. That would make everyone the happiest including the kids, you and I. Although I truly believe we can accomplish this with love, honesty, commitment, understanding and hard work, it takes two and we seem to be in a much different place right now.

I have come to realize many things over the past several months and one of them is that I can't make you love me. I understand that now and I don't want you to be in a marriage where you are unhappy. The past few months has taken a toll on the both of us and I have experienced hurt like I didn't know was possible. I would never have hurt as much as I did if I didn't care for you so much...more than you know.

So no matter how much I long to see your beautiful smile, or feel your warm touch, I need to leave the pain behind. I need to step away from the abyss. That is why I have distanced myself from you in the past few weeks. I need to protect my heart and the love I have for you.

When I said that I only talk about marriage and lawyers can talk about separation, I said it because my hope is that we can rebuild a new relationship between us. But I also said it to prevent exactly what is happening between us right now. I don't want to argue with you on these issues. I would much rather talk about ways to rebuild our marriage. I'm not a lawyer and I don't feel comfortable negotiating on these issues. It just doesn't feel right to me. All I know is if you truly want this, then let's try to get something done quickly since it is extremely painful for me and I don't want to subject you or myself to this.

Me


WW's reply....


Believe it or not, I’m not a bad person looking to hurt you deliberately. I think we’ve done too many things to each other to repair what we once had, you’ve involved everyone so that I’m now on display for everyone to look at. You’ve humiliated me beyond belief.

I never thought I would be so sad, and I initially thought that time away from one another would make things better, the way things are going right now, we won’t even be able to stand seeing each other. You question me on everything that I do, buy etc…and I have little tolerance for the fact that you think I’m dishonest among the many other things you think.

Anyways, if you’re willing I would like to approach a mediator to settle our differences. I can’t afford to battle this out in court.

You’ve taken a position in what you want and your unwilling to bend, you want to take the house from me (a house we built together, my parents helped us much more than your parents ever did) but you give me this impression that you’re entitled to the house more than I am. You want to force me to live in an expensive community and start from scratch, and you want to take the kids away from me (tell them mommy wasn’t happy and she left). You’ve alienated my family. I can’t talk on the phone, I can’t talk in my car. You’ve limited my career opportunities at work. You refuse to help me with child support and then you say that we’re in different places. You’re absolutely right about that. If for a minute you evaluated things from my standpoint, I don’t have very much left.

After everything is said and done, nobody will ever know the things that you’ve done to me to make me feel this way, I think its private and down the road I don’t want our kids to know the bad things, I want them to know all the good things only. The same can’t be said for you, you’ve made me into this terribly shameful person and even though you promise not to say anything, you can’t control everyone else, can you?

I’ve attached a draft of a list that I made a few weeks ago, I’m sure you won’t agree but at least you can make changes to this document and we can go back and forth on some items through email.

Please advise if you’re willing to go through a mediator.

For what it’s worth, I’m sorry for the pain that I cause you.

WW

Hope-

Again, fog-babble. Ask her this...she says "you’ve involved everyone so that I’m now on display for everyone to look at. You’ve humiliated me beyond belief." Ask her how it's YOUR fault when she was the one who was having the affair to begin with? How is it YOUR fault that she's humiliated...she was the one who went outside of the marriage...all you did was ask your family and friends for help in getting her to END this behavior. She's humiliated...not by you, but by HER actions. It was HER choice to become a shameful person...not yours. You only asked for help in trying to end the situation.

And even now...it's not YOU that's creating this situation and crisis. It's HER. She has choices, options. But...she CHOOSES to continue doing what she's doing, and so she's facing the results of her choices. Not you...HER.

For what it's worth, my wife took a short trip down this track too. But I refused to accept the blame for HER choices. I made it very clear to her that it was HER choice to do this...no one else's. And the consequences were hers as well.

I also made it clear to her that my family had seen stuff like this before...and that they would be the first to 'forgive and forget' when it was all said and done. And that's exactly what happened.