Not as hard as you think..Hope. I have really been focusing on myself and kids, and not giving a "flip" about what WW is doing!! Short email answers, and refusing to get on phone with her when she calls DD6 and DS3.

I'm letting her A go full tilt, but not caring about it!!! Going on with my life, making changes that are GOOD for myself, and doing things that I enjoy doing, without worrying about what ANYONE thinks!! It's so empowering to take back and regain the self confidence of who you are as a person. It is becoming more and more gratifying to rebuild and rediscover what "I'm" all about. And it really doesn't matter what another living soul thinks of me!! (with the exception of my kids, of course!!!)

Plan B is about ME!!! A secondary benefit MAY BE a pulling of a WS back toward you, but that is of no concern at this early point. SendMe, told me personally, "Plan B is all about you."

BTW, I met Send Me last week. Quite a guy!! And seemed like he has his "shiit together."

One day at a time, my friend. Ridding yourself from her daily bashing is quite a refreshment!! There is still some saddness when you let yourself reflect, but just go do something for yourself, and smile. Smile, knowing you are who you are, a good person, who wants to make themselves even better!! Not a bad philosophy, no matter what situation anyone is in. Just a good "life attitude". Always strive to improve yourself!!!! I'm learning that!!! And it feels so GOOD!!

Thoughts are with you always, Hope!!
MWIL

Hope:

Your last post how your WW treated or mistreated your kids for not being there when they needed her reminded me so much of my teen kids and how my FWW would lie to them and me on a regular basis. They were older and my son said to me one day, "When your own mother lies to you, who can you trust?" This was during my FWW's fog period.

Later, post fog and during earlier recovery and on mother's day as the kids were giving her presents, my FWW felt terrible and told me privately that she felt totally worthless for the things she did and for all the lies she told to the children. Your wife is not there yet, but in time, she will have to face her own conscious. WS's are so willing to throw everything away for the "real love of their life" who they are cheating with and who don't even really know.

We were watching a show last night and it had a love triangle going on and I asked her if it brought back memories for her because it did for me. She said her whole ordeal was terribly wrong and she wishes it would never have happened. I asked her what she would do if she ran into the OM in a store or somewhere, and she said, she would run so fast the other way, she wouldn't even talk to him. She has come to despise the OM's manipulation of her during the affair and how he worked her for his benefit and how it almost destroyed our family. She lost all respect for him and that is so hard to get back.

TooSoon

Hope...here's where things are different...my xw was just the opposite...she coddled and over parented the kids during my period of absolute horror..and she made it a point to make sure I knew how bad of a parent I was for being gone all the time....so when she decided I had "to go"....she never really thought out that I would have to have the kids for extended periods....she was VERY controlling during our period of separation regarding the kids....and I balked at every step....

Hope...your anger and resentment are very normal...you are ready for Plan B....keep taking those steps...

Mywife, I'm glad to hear you are doing well in the early stages of your Plan B. It must feel great to finally be free of the daily bashing as you say. My wife is barely talking to me now since I did not give in to her seperation agreement proposal. I guess I'm a realy [censored] for not agreeing to her being primary and wanting $900/month in CS and $20,000 in alimony for starting from scratch.

I still find it amazing how the WS demonizes the BS even though they are being showered with Plan A and are the ones who have comitted adultery. Their sense of victimization is really unbelieveable. They push themselves away from those who love them the most and gravitate towards their "new" friends who support and enable their actions.

I'm certain you WW will once day realize the true pain and hurt she has caused through her actions. No one can bury that type of guilt and shame for ever. It's easy for them to suppress those feelings by placing all the blame on the BS. However, once the BS is removed from the conflict the anger slowly fades away and they will soon come to terms with their indiscresions.

Good to hear you and Sendme had a chance to meet. Hopefully all three of us can hook up for a beer in the future. I can take the short 1 hour ferry across.

TooSoon, my kids are too young to know of what mommy was doing or that she may have lied to them. Last friday when she was at OM office location and came home at 7:30 my DS asked why she came so late. My WW said their was an accident and she had to take another route. Well I know for a FACT from the PI that she left the office at 6:50 and it is usually a 45 minute drive home. So she did lie to my DS and I don't think it fazed her one bit. I hope you are right that she will have to face her conscience one day just like your FWW did. She is not there yet as you have suggested.

I can't see my WW ever getting to the point where your FWW is. It just seems so opposite of where she is right now. I dream of that day but have come to realize I may never see it.

Sendme, I don't want you to think my WW is a bad parent in fact I see her coddling my kids much of the time also. It just seems when she is at work, that is her priority and not her family. When she is at home, she is a loving mother to her kids and is over doing it at times. I don't know if she is trying to prove to herself or to me that she is a good mother in spite of what she did.

This situation is not good for the kids since they are slowly learning that we don't support each other. They are using that to get what they want and it really pisses me off. Once seperated I will start to enforce their boundaries more. Right now their mother has been over riding my decisions and it is affecting how the kids react to me. If they don't get their way with me they go straight to mom. It really upsets me that she doesn't enforce my decisions like she used to. I don't want to be seen as a disciplinarian right now since it could affect the custody issue.

The controlling aspect is interesting since my WW likes to control everything regarding the kids. It will be interesting to see how she reacts when she looses that control.

My WW has started reading "Rebuilding when Your Relationship Ends". I wish she would read it somewhere else and not in front of me since I feel hurt by it. Am I being over sensitive here or is it the same as me reading HN/HN in front of her?

I know it's a small issue only that it is things like these that she has been doing that have really bothered me.

I can't wait until this kind of emotional torture is over!

Hope..start reading self help books yourself....ones that talk about "finding an honest woman"....you know the drill. At this point is it not almost funny and pathetic..and predictable?

Sounds to me like she's reading an oxymoron...kind of like...rebuilding after the inferno....??

Yeah, I think you ought to read "10 Stupid Things Women do to Mess up Their Lives" but then you could probably write the book yourself. But I think it might be fun reading the book in front of her.

Sendme & Askme, I think I will pull out SAA and leave that on my night table. Yes it is like she is doing these things to spite me or something.

This morning my MIL came over to watch my DS who is sick and she was not happy with the way my WW did my DD's hair. She told my WW to spend more time with her kids and less time in front of the mirror (she was putting on makeup). Well I guess my WW didn't like that comment and said "screw you". Two years ago I would have been shocked at that remark from my WW but not anymore. She has shown a total disrespect for my MIL which is even more upseting considering all that my MIL has done for us. She has been the day care provider for my kids over the past 3 years even though she is in poor health and will do anything to protect those kids.

My MIL found a note in my WW purse regarding a meeting with a real estate agent on Monday so it looks like she will be looking at homes in the area.

She also took a few pair of sexy panties from my WW's drawr that my WW bought during her panty and bra spending spree in June, and showed them to me. I already knew about them and know that she wears these when she has visited OM office. She took them home with her.

I informed my MIL of my WW's seperation demands and told her that I will not accept her being primary since she might decide to relocate the kids to another school cloer to OM. My MIL is completely against any relocation since she loves our kids dearly and wants to remain close to them. She has helped raise them over the last 5 years and has developed a very close bond with them. I told her WW may take me to court to fight for custody to which my MIL said she will come to court and tell the truth. I'm sure a judge will strongly listen to my MIL since she was the daycare provider for the last 3 years and is also WW's mother. So I think I have her support if WW decides to fight for primary. I hope it doesn't go that far but I'm preparing for that in case it should happen.

I also informed my best friend last night of the situation and he told me he would be glad to be a character witness if required. So it feels good to have all this support and I will use it if needed.

I'm slowly feeling stronger but I find the future uncertainty difficult to deal with sometimes. That is why I would like all this settled soon so I can impliment a plan (Plan B) and move forward.

Hope....

have your lawyer lay it all out there in writing for her, make sure you sign it. That leaves the ball entirely in her court. Make sure that your are prepared to take her to court over this and when she refuses waste little time doing so. Do not allow her any options. If she refuses to accept your agreement then you'll have to cram it down her throat through the courts. Otherwise it's the waiting game.

On another note...you, as well as other were looking for my "story"...I'm working on it..its long...really long...and really painful....but therapeutic nonetheless.
I should have it by tonight....

Don’t expect any results or any change in your wife in the next days or weeks. You see – she still thinks the $20.000 and $900 demands are reasonable and probably still thinks you will accept an amicable divorce. She will go real-estate shopping with that in mind but not be able to commit or buy anything until this issue is resolved.

When she starts looking at cheaper real estate is when you might start expecting changes.

Were her demands from a lawyer or just her ideas? You really have to find some way to get her down to earth.

Can you use MIL to your advantage? If she has been an integral part of your children’s upbringing you should have a clear path for her to keep on being a part of their lives. Having one’s MIL as a character witness – that is powerful! I would think that if you can offer ties to family and residency in the same neighborhood custody will not be an issue. More an issue whether WW will have to pay CS!

Don’t forget to do things to improve your odds in case of divorce and to improve the changes of reconciliation without LB.

Well I just received an email response from my WW which asks for the following:

- February 1 as the seperation date.
- how much time I will give her to find a new place and move out
- 50/50 with the kids but she still wants primary
she would do things like purchase clothes and divide
the expense with me ( she would check with me first
before purchasing anything)
- One week kids with me and one week kids with her (Wednesday nights kids would spend a couple of hours with other parent for dinner and be returned)

No mention of CS or alimony and I have forwarded it to my lawyer for review.

What are your thoughts?

Why?? It is 50%- 50%...?

In my state primary always is entitled to support, no judge will allow "waiving" support. Plus...first time you get her mad she is entitled to seek support....

How about no mention of primary "care giver" is the PC word used in NY? Everything is split 50-50...neither of you spend money without speaking of it with other first. This will get dicey and be tough during plan B....

Well, I'll comment on the kid time - I have 50/50 with my ex, but like your kids, mine are young. The week splits work ok (I've heard) for older kids. But a 3 and 5 year old - a week is too long without seeing Mommy or Daddy.

My split works: M/Th with me Tu/W with my ex and we alternate weekends. I have them Sunday nights, so I have a little more than 50/50. We keep the schedules similar (same bedtimes, mealtimes, etc,) So it really has worked well for us.

Good luck.

ETA: our incomes are similar, we split all expenses, no CS.

I would be reluctant to want to split the kids until you knew what their living arrangements would be? How far would they travel, what school or preschool would they switch to or stay in.

I would suggest, you keep the kids during the week...she can have the kids Wednesday night through Thursday morning and Friday night through Sunday afternoon.

YOU maintain primary custody. They need a stable force in their life right now...not someone who is google eyed, single, and dating...You keep them in the home, the less change, the better...

See what you can do about asking for no CS for now. Split costs of daycare and/or large expenses like medical insurance or such...will the kids stay on your medical insurance? You can add you will keep her on your medical insurance until D.

It sounds like she is willing to waive the money, but NOT willing to waive giving up primamry custody. I agree, if there is any way you can state that it is JOINT custody and there is NO primary caregiver, the better. That won't give her the leverage later to take the kids and make the *happy* family with the new step-dad (ugh). That will make sure you have a PROMINENT place in their life. And if you stay in the house, make sure the kid's have continuity...

So it looks like she has softened her stance a little but I'm still not happy with her wanting primary and will talk to my lawyer.

Sendme, yes the kids will be with me 50% of the time and with her the other 50%. And yes I'm afraid she may seek CS in the future or try to have kids relocated to another school. Again I will consult with my lawyer on all this.

bigger, I will use my MIL to help my case if necessary. I really don't want to go to court to fight this.

cyll, yes we may try to break up the week since I agree it will be long time to go without seeing the other parent.

SHMI, I agree that the "primary" term is the main issue here and I do want her to be primary for various reasons.

As for Plan B, how do I go dark with kids involved? How so you transfer kids without contact?

If she is seeking primary custody, it may be a tactic to also gain control of the home. If a court awards primary custody of the children to her they may also see it necessary to provide her with the home for the children to maintain their school and not disrupt their life. I would be cautious in granting the primary custody. If it boiled down to a choice you could always ask for joint custody in which both of you would share equal access and equal decision making about your children. It would be something to ask the lawyer about, although I would hold out for primary custody as long as I could and then ask for joint custody.

Hope, this is relatively easy. Let's 'pretend' that she moves out and has the kids Sun. after 3pm-M-T-W and you have them H-F-Sa-Sun. until 3pm. This is approximately 50/50 and it is regular and stable, so the kids could adjust to it. Well, you go to her DRIVEWAY to drop them off Sun. at 3pm, and she comes to your DRIVEWAY to drop them off Thursday at 8am. Something like that. There is no need to talk to her or chit chat. If there is some information regarding the children that she feels you need to know, she can email you.

See?? Nice and dark, and no communication.



FNCJ

Well that explains where you have been! You go girl!

Stillwed

FNCJ, that sounds like it can work. Actually I feel like I am in a pre-Plan B mode right now. It is not quite Plan A and not Plan B. All I am trying to do now is keep from LB'ing since she will not let me fill ANY of her EN's.

I do the odd thing like change the oil in her car, buy her coffee, and fill her gas tank but she doesn't really want me to do anything for her. It has given me a chance to prepare for Plan B and emotionally detatch from her.

She hasn't worn her wedding ring for almost a week now and then I see it on her yesterday when she gets home from work. I just feel like telling her to take it off for good since she obviously doesn't want the M. I know that would be a LB'er, but really, why wear the ring at all at this point? I am still wearing mine BTW and am not sure if I will take it off or not.

It looks like we have agree to Feb 1 as the seperation date and she has asked me how much time I will give her to find a new place and move out. Any suggestions on how to reply...I don't want to force her out but I don't want to have her around for long either. How can I approach this?

All seperation issues have been done through email and I find that makes things SO much less emotional and it has worked well. She still has not responded to me after I told her I won't accept her being the primary parent. She will have to take me to court it she wants primary since I have drawn the line in the sand on this issue.

I went to visit my MIL yesterday and spoke to her for a few hours. She was in the process of writing WW a long letter telling exactly how she feels and how she thinks she is making a HUGE mistake. I told her that the letter will probably have no effect on WW but may process in her fogged mind over time. She is so upset with WW that she will be removing her from her will and leaving her estate to my kids in trust. She also does not want her to attend her funeral. My MIL senses that WW is trying to soften up to her for support in case this goes to court and refuses to be used that way. My MIL knows this for a fact since my WW asked her younger brother if "mom would help me with custody". MIL said she will tell the TRUTH if it comes to that and I was glad to hear her say that.

She is an incredible woman and I respect her immensely. Too bad my WW doesn't exibit some of the same qualities as her mother.

Her older brother has not talked to my WW since I exposed (second time around) and he is extremely upset with her actions and behaviour. He worries about my kids and hates the way WW has disrespected their mother.

WW sister is torn between being upset with WW and not wanting to loose her relationship with WW so she has been treating WW as if nothing ever happened. Personally I have lost some respect for her since WW treats her like crap sometimes and she won't tell WW not to treat her that way. She won't tell WW how she feels for fear of upseting her.

WW's younger brother seems to be the liaison between WW and her family. She is leaning on him for support and he has already told her that if she buys a place near her work friend and OM that she will no longer have his support. WW has since changed her mind and will be buying something nearby.

Last night I was thinking of some of the hurtful things my WW has said to me over the past few months and they are really awful. I know much of it is fog babble but those comments leave scars. I wonder if OM would ever treat my WW they way I have had he been in the same situation.

I have noticed my WW using the work "kind" very ofter lately. For example when DD or DS does something nice she says "that is so kind". I also remember WW saying after d-day #2 that she missed OM's "kindness". I hope she eventually recognizes the kindness in my Plan A and doens't continue to focus on exposure and the rewriting of history as she seems to do. I am sure OM will show his true colours one day.

Hope, do you see how she is gradually backing down in her position? That is because she is realizing she is in a poor bargaining position. You have much better leverage than she does. So, stick to your guns, insist on primary and follow StillMakingItHere's excellent suggestion for visitation.

The kids shouldn't be ripped from their homes in the middle of the week. The 50% benefits WHO?? Surely not the kids.It is just a number that makes some adult feel good and not necessarily a benefit to the kids. Stick to your guns, she is wavering!

Can you get child support frm her since you would have primary?