Mywife, the personal growth that most BS's gain through all this almost makes it worth the crap they go through. You sound like you are doing well as long as you stay dark my friend.

aWOL, that name fits you perfectly! Glad your still fighting the good fight.

BTW, Mel I just sent my WW a response to her email yesterday when she asked about furture reconciliation. I used your exact quote..I hope you don't mind.

Well I have been going over my Plan B letter and I think it is pretty much ready to go. Sendme suggested that I brief my IL's on my Plan B so they don't think I am punishing their daughter...I think that is a great idea and I will let them know just before or after I give WW Plan B letter. Would it be too much to have MIL read the Plan B letter? I have a few other questions:

1) When exactly should I give WW the Plan B letter? As she is leaving or wait until she has left for a while (i.e 1-2 weeks).

2) What do you all think of the idea of including my wedding ring with the Plan B letter?

Spoke to my lawyer again and he restated that WW asking for primary custody is strange since she has listed us as both having joint legal and physical custody 50/50. He thinks she forgot to take it out, but she didn't forget since she revised it and placed it somewhere else in the LSA.

Anyway, I said "NO" again and she will have to decide what she wants to do...agree or take me to court over the issue. She has agreed to everything else and will live within 10 miles of me (she initially wanted it 20 miles, but I said it would be to far to visit kids).

So all that is left is the primary custody issue and dividing the assets. My lawyer said she is entitled to half the value so we will have to figure out who gets what.

I think she will be coming with us to church again tomorrow so I'm looking forward to that.

Update...

My WW spent most of her Sunday packing up her stuff in boxes so I tried keeping busy doing other things. It's an awful feeling seeing you WW packing her things...it leaves a real empty feeling inside of you.

During dinner I asked her when she was planning on leaving and she replied "you can't wait until I'm gone, can you?".

So I said "why do you alwasy seem to justify to yourself that I want you out?"

She said "when I asked if you would want me to take everything now or take it some at a time you said you would prefer if I take it all at once since it makes it easier for you...it's always about you".

Is there something wrong with telling my WW that I prefer to have her take her items in one move?

She used this against me saying "I thought I could take some stuff and see if my feelings change, but you want me to take it all and leave"

So I just said "I don't want you to leave...I think you know that by now".

I find it agrivating that my WW seems to try and make herself believe that I want her to leave. Where is she getting this from when I have made it clear that I want the M. Why can't she accept the fact that I want the M and don't want her to leave? The decision is all hers and I have done almost nothing to help her to leave.

I think she is going to back down from her demands for primary custody. I have not given in and she knows I won't agree unless a judge orders me to.

She has also agreed to live within 10 miles of me instead of the 20 miles she was originally asking for.

Any comments on the questions I had in my previous post?

Thanks

My .02 worth...

1) When exactly should I give WW the Plan B letter? As she is leaving or wait until she has left for a while (i.e 1-2 weeks).


I would give her the letter after she is settled in her new house, after the routine has started with visitation, and after all the details are worked out so there is no need to keep in contact with her...


2) What do you all think of the idea of including my wedding ring with the Plan B letter?

No, do not send it..it gives a message you have given up...and Plan B is NOT about giving up, it's about protecting the love you have...


Yes, definitely talk it over the your IL's about the Plan B, what it's purpose is...

And yes, she is trying to justify her moving out by getting angry and blaming you.

She wants both her independent life, and a home to come home to, hence wanting to keep some of her stuff there...she wants her cake and eating it too.

She has been VERY content to ride the fence...have 2 men in her life...one her takes care of her children's, domestic, and companionship needs, and the other for ...well, all the other needs. She was happy, as are many a WS, with this arrangement...they could go on like this forever...
But we can't. As the BS, we are losing love from our LB as though someone punctured a hole in our SCUBA air tank... We have to plug up the leak, and thereby remove ourselves from fulfilling anymore needs, or having contact with the puncturer...

The WS HATES this. That means they have to have ALL their needs fulfilled by one person, instead of two... They had chosen their A partner for the purpose of fulfilling SOME of their needs, and know they will fail at all of them... This brings reality into the A, the arguments, the facts of life...bills, stresses, family, etc...

The WS realizes relationships are work no matter who it is with...and htey gave up a relationship they had worked on for many years, only to start again with a relationship that will take work...ugh, what a position to be in.

The WS WILL regret leaving the BS...it may be soon, or late...it is up to YOU to hold out as long as you can...to protect the love you have left...to plug up the leaks and keep breathing. Their A WILL demise...it's just a matter of WHEN...how soon will reality rear it's head, and how stubborn is your WW.

The fact her family is applying so much pressure is a BIGGIE for breaking up the A...

Keep hope alive!

Hope I think she should take all of her stuff in one move. I gets her in the mind set that this is permanent move and that she can't be playing around. Taking a piece here and piece there just allows her to think she can do what she wants when she wants, which I would not allow.

She feels guilty and is trying to shift the blame to you.

I agree with AskMe that she should take all her stuff right away. Once she gets out of the house, you should give her the Plan B letter about 1-2 weeks later. That is around the time she starts missing you and realizing what she has given up. And it is before she becomes too adjusted to her new surroundings so it has the most effective shock value.

And, Hope, I do hope you have researched Plan B and intend on doing a solidly dark Plan B. She will not be happy with Plan B because it shifts all the power back to you so I envision her doing everything to break no contact, including bursting into the house at will. I would set up an intermediary and make sure you are completely dark. Are you prepared?

SHMI & Mel,
She will be moving in with her parents temporarily so I think once she has settled in and the visitation schedule has been ironed out I will give the the Plan B letter as you both have suggested.

SHMI, As for the ring, I think you are absolutely right here. She is looking for ANY excuse that I have given up so she can justify her actions. I can see it with some of the remarks she makes so I won't give her that excuse.

Currently, I'm in this "limbo" stage right now and I don't want to remain here for much longer. My life has no direction or plan right now and I need to wrap this all up so I can start to focus on myself again. It has been a LONG time and I need to make myself happy...even just a little bit.

Askme, I feel the exact same way and that is why I told her it was my preference to have her move everything in one move. She got upset with this of course just like every other little excuse over the past 8 months.

Mel, I'm getting tired of the shifting the blame game. It is getting old and I have already admittted my faults and apologized for them. She won't have me to dump her guilt on anymore, someone else can take that job...maybe OM. It is time she starts accepting responsibility for her actions and feelings of guilt.

What happens to a WS when the BS is no longer around for them to dump their guilt on? Do they finally start to take responsibility for their actions or does someone else become the outlet...just curious?

Mel, I have researched Plan B and will be going as dark as I can, but I forsee the visitation and exchanging of kids being the weak link. We plan on going 1 week each with the kids with 1 night visitaion so that means I will probably be seeing WW twice a week. I might be able to arrange for WW to drop of kids with IL's or SIL during those times but won't that be hard on the kids? I will defenitely have to explain why I'm doing this to IL's.


Mel, I can't see that right now since she is so determined to leave and really doesn't want to have anything to do with me. What makes you think she would want to change that by trying to break contact. It would be completely out of her character right now to try and contact me. Sorry, but I don't see the logic here...maybe you or others can explain.

HTW,

You said
This is really very simple. Don't accept the blame. Simply look at her and say: "This YOUR decision, I had no part in it." And leave it at that.

God Bless,

JL

Although you're curious you probably won't know the answer to this for her. She may never take responsibility and it appears that this is something you need to reconcile and that is what you would be doing. You understand that this Plan B could be life long?



Hope...you do not need to speak to her during this exchange...except about the kids....

Does DD have her coat? : Yes

Do you like DD coat? : No answer!

Did the children eat? : Yes

How was dinner?: NO ANSWER!

Don't fall into the trap that you're being rude to her...you will clearly spell out in your Plan B letter when and how you will communicate with her and what needs to happen for that to change...

I am here for you....prepare my friend....

Well, what makes me think this is that they ALWAYS DO. I hope you are right and she doesn't, but I anticipate she will be angry when you tell her she is not to contact you anymore and will go out of her way to break no contact. They don't like losing power and seem to enjoy making you lose your resolve to stay dark.

As far as exchanging kids and staying dark, this should be no problem. You can drop the kids off and escort them to the door. Just don't go any further. And vice versa. It is done all the done with no problem. You shouldn't have to talk to or see her EVER unless it is an emergency. She can relay any other pertinent information through your intermediary. Remember, DARK MEANS DARK!

HTW

I can't really add to much of what has already been said. As always, I can and will commit to praying for you. I still have you on my personal prayer list.

God Bless and don't give up even in the face of Plan B.

Your Brother in Christ

WOL

My Plan B letter has been ready for a couple of months now and I will post it one last time for feedback just prior to giving it to my WW. I am almost certain she will think I am punishing her and "throwing it in her face" (the A that is) based on comments she makes to me whenever I bring up the A or OM, which is very rarely.

Sendme, you implimented a Plan B even though you were unfamiliar with MB concepts at the time. However, you did come out of Plan B occasionally. Did you find that this helped or hindered your reconciliation?

Oh and I forgot, the Plan B letter will surely reinforce her notion that it is ALL about ME again!

I think she probably says this to get you to quit talking about it. It makes her uneasy and she wants you to accommodate her guilty conscience. Its ok if she says you are "throwing it in her face." That is her problem to deal with.

My plan B was one of "disengagement" as my IC put it. In fact my IC DEMANDED it. I was an absolute mess when we first divorced and when I figured out her status with the guy from her office, heard rumors of an earlier affair I was a goner...and I knew it. So my "plan B" was going dark to survive...for real...

After seeing another of her coworkers out at a social event and this coworker making fun of her I broke contact and really LB'd...bad....asking her if she knew what people from her own office had to say...and actually SAYING it. Telling her who said it...and what I thought of it. She actually said "I don't know anybody else, I don't have the social life you do". I actually offered to take her out and have her meet other men. At that point I had accepted that we would never get back together...in fact I did not want to, that was how I knew I was OK..

Did it hinder anything? I am sure it did...it probably slowed her down and made her more aware that I was different (which in turn made me attractive). It was also after disengaging for a good period (over 6 mos) that I decided to enter into a relatively serious relationship with someone else. That hindered her (unknown to me cause I really did not care at that point).

So Hope....listen to what Mel says because she will get nasty when you're in Plan B, she will have no control and that is where that "choking on it" starts.

I don't want this to be a pity party, but I need to get these thoughts and feelings I have off my chest right now so please bare with me.

I had a rough night last night seeing the continued packing of boxes by my WW and knowing she will be moving out shortly. I am having a hard time understanding how she can be so cold and calculating...it really hurts and I don't think I will ever understand.

I was thinking ahead to when I return from work to an empty home. That's going to be tough and I often ask myself if WW has thought of this...does she even care?

It really bothers me that she is more interested in talking about seperation issues than family issues or even just daily issues. This morning she was having a bad hair day and seemed to get more emotional with the status of hair that she does with our M. It's really sad to think about.

That is her life right now...reading excersise magazines, working out, dressing well and ensuring she looks good. I won't miss how she seems to make her work and exersising a priority over the family.

Whenever she says something to me I have to ask "are you talking to me?", because of how rarely she engages me in conversation. The best way to describe it is she makes me feel like a piece of furniture.


Sendme & Mel, maybe it is because I haven't been there, but I really don't see Plan B bothering her too much. This is what she wants so why would my insistence on giving her what she WANTS bother her? You referenced the CONTROL issue and how she will loose control in Plan B. Will she? What is she loosing control of?

I understand that I will gain control of myself, but that doesn't necisarily mean she will loose control. She is also gaining control of her life as well.

Hope,

After a couple days of coming home with no one in the house, it starts to get better, really fast!! More closet space, you can leave a dish on the counter for.....AS LONG AS YOU WANT!! Etc...etc..

I'm not trying to be flippant, but focusing on the positives and yourself and children, will provide you strength. Yes, Plan B, provides the best opportunity for your WW to come back......no guarentees!!

I'm now a bit ahead of you in this seemingly "twin" situation, but IT WILL BE SO MUCH BETTER!! Trust me!! A couple days of thinking of the new situation, but, for me, anyway, that has faded pretty fast!!! My WW, has really started wanting to talk about things....and I've stayed dark!!

I have actually thought about the closet space opening up and the dish thing too! Must be a guy thing.


I will try to stay busy and do things for myself. I'm usually good at staying positive except for the times I get stuck in the neutral for a while. Hey, what did you include in your Plan B letter if you don't mind me asking. Was it a typical letter or was it a quasi letter?


Yes it is amazing how similar our situation really is! I'm still pulling for you and am always happy to hear you are sticking to Plan B and doing well. I know I have encouraged you to stay dark during your Plan B and I expect you will do the same to me.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> MEN!

You see Mel, us men are very simple creatures and it doesn't take much to keep us happy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

My good friend at work was divorced a few years ago and he got the house. Ya know what he did when she left?? He took the doors off the cabinets in his kitchen!! Said they "got in his way!" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />