Yesterday my WW was a tad nicer to me...just a tad and I think I know why. My WW actually initiated some converstaions yesterday with me and during one of them she told me something our DD had told her earlier in the morning.

Apparently, my DD asked my WW, "Mommy, what are you always mad at daddy" then she told her "stop being mean to him...he is my daddy and I love him".

That's my little girl... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Then my WW says "I think she said that because we argue alot". Actually we don't argue alot and I'm sure if you aske my kids if daddy is mad with mommy they will tell you NO. Just another example of her spun reality. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Have you had any real dialect with her? Like telling her one more time that you don't want this??

I don't know how you've held it together this long but at least you can tell your parents you asked her one more time to give up the A and work on the marriage.

Hi coach,

You see, almost everytime we have some sort of relationship dialect, it doesn't take long before she starts to focus on all the negative aspects of our M including exposure, perceived or not and she then proceeds to shut down. That is really frustrating since it is not condusive to any type of rational and constructive conversation. It just breaks down so quickly. It is like a child who doesn't get their way and proceeds to indignantly walks away.

She is no where near being humbled or broken and the further I progress into this, the more I really believe that is essential to any sort of reconciliaiton.

She will NEVER reach this point while she still in contact with OM and I understand this. That is why she needs to leave soon before she destroys any chance of a future reconciliation between us.

Right now I have focused on preparing for a life without her and I am starting to realize that I WILL be fine. I have alot going for me and I don't need a WS in my life to make me happy (or unhappy).

I would love to have my W back, but not in the form of a WS. She heard the things she wanted to hear from OM, but he really doesn't love her or really care for her. He saw an oppoourtunity for himself and took advantage of her unmet needs. It is all based on lies and deceipt...nothing more and it WILL end just as they all do with time. Unfortunately, it may be too late for me by then.

Hope, if our situations contine to mirror one another's, you'll probably go through a period of adjustment (1 or 2 weeks) and then the batteries may recharge a bit and your energy may come back. Now, in my sitch, SH said to transition back to Plan A while the WW was out of the house. Whether or not this to be the case for you is another matter. My Plan A just before she moved out STUNK! But after a few weeks, I could see so much more clearly...and it helped to have a break from the constant battering us BS's take!!

The A will end...in time. But getting her out, so that you can move on for YOU, is ironically the key to having a chance at recovery...especially at the point you are at. You see, Plan A's, no matter how good, don't always work...especially when WW's are still living at home and continuing the A. Things change when they move out.

MWIL...and Hope...I give you guys a ton of credit in all of this. I could never do what you're doing, either one of you. I had to deal with my FWW actions after she divorced me and had long ended her affair....

As for Hope....his bank is empty...he is looking forward...Plan B is imminent and if nothing I think he should look at Plan D....enough is enough....I'm ready to make that 5 hour drive and throw her stuff out....

"I'm ready to make that 5 hour drive and throw her stuff out...."

Make sure, SMOMW, that you POJA that with your newlywed!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Update...

Well I brought my MIL up to speed on my Plan B and she is sad but understands what I'm trying to do. She is still very upset with her daughter and how her schedule is neglecting the kids. As I was explaing Plan B and how I will be giving her daughter a letter that said I love her, that I apologize for the things I did to make her feel unloved, that her A with OM hurts me, that we can't have any contact, and that we can try to reconcile only if OM is out of picture and she committs to M. MIL started crying as I explained this.

I let my MIL know that I need her help in having her daughter move out ASAP so I don't loose all my love for her. I see so much damage done to their relationship that I wonder if it will ever be the same as before.

Then my FIL came to visit me and basically told me to move on with my life and that WW doens't care about me so why do I care about her. I explained that I still care for WW and I'm not the type of person to treat her poorly regardless of what she has done to me. He just came short of saying find someone who does care about you. He also said he will not tollerate her current schedule while she lives at his house and has the kids.

WW is still his daughter so he does give her the benefit of the doubt even though he knows her actions are hurting everyone involved. Her whole family seems very embarrased by her actions and it is really quite sad to see.

SO now I'm just waiting for my lawyer to call me to let me know he has received the LSA. Hopefully there will be very little changed since my last revisions and we can move into Plan B soon.

I'm trying to finish Plan A on a strong note so that is what she remembers most instead of any Lb'ers. My Plan B letter is ready and so am I.

....And let the personal healing begin!!! Take time to reflect, when your alone. Draw the courage to gain value in yourself!! Good luck, God bless!

MWIL

Hope,

You know that I admire you. And I hope what I'm about to say doesn't make matters any worse for you than they already are. But here goes...

Given your inlaws' attitude toward your W, is it any wonder that she resents you for exposing to them? Look what you've written: They're ashamed of her... they tell her they won't tolerate this or that as if she's a child... their relationship with her is damaged, possibly beyond repair.

I don't want to get into a debate about whether or not she deserves this treatment based on her actions. That's not the point. The point is, IMO, this might be the single biggest road block to any remaining chance you have at saving your marriage. And if she moves in with them, and they continue to treat her poorly, it's only going to make matters worse.

Hope, you've done such an amazing job on plan-A. But if your wife thinks her own family hates her, and she blames you for that -- right or wrong, fair or unfair -- it overshadows all the wonderful things you've done for her over the last several months. I guarentee that she is one frightened, tortured soul right now, Hope... no matter how cold and hard-shelled she seems to you. And a little bit of kindness and compassion from her family might... just might... put a tiny crack in that shell.

-SC

smartcookie, the resolution to the problem is to end the affair, NOT to help her hide it. There is nothing "compassionate' about enabling her affair by helping her hide her dirty secret.

Her family is angry at her for her AFFAIR and that is something over which Hope has no control. Only HIS WIFE has control over this. Hope would be committing a gross dereliction of duty if he HID his affair from his family; that helps no one. It only ENABLES her affair.

She is not supposed to LIKE exposure and it wasn''t expected that she would. His goal is not to appease an insane woman but to bust up this affair. It did achieve its desired effect by making the affair very uncomfortable and making it impossible for her to carry on her affair around her family.

So, make no mistake about it, it is not Hope who has alienated his WW from her family, but HERSELF. There is nothing "compassionate" about enabling a WS on a such a destructive path.

Hope - and the family - has been MORE than kind and "compassionate" to WW; they have given her NUMEROUS opportunities to stop her affair and fly right. She has refused them all. So they are rightfully disgusted and disappointed.

Here we go again...

The affair has already been exposed. Any talk about whether it should/should not have exposed is mute.

Hope, AS I STATED... the purpose of my post was not to question whether or not she "deserves" the treatment she's getting. It was to suggest that if she's being shamed by her family, it could be getting in the way of reconciliation, because right or wrong, she blames you for the way her family is treating her. A family can be supportive of a WS without being supportive of their affair. I know, because that's how my family reacted!! If they had tried to shame me, I would have been defensive, and probably would have dug in my heels -- human nature. But when I said to my mother "You must be so ashamed of me" and she replied "I love you. I could never be ashamed of you." It forced me to look at myself and realize that I was ashamed of MYSELF!

What's done is done. The affair has already been exposed. This isn't about enabling anybody to continue doing anything. It's about your wife's PERSPECTIVE.

Apparently, though, some people are much more interested in being "right" than saving marriages.

Yes, here we go again. The fact is that Hope's family is being EXTREMELY compassionate towards her. They have done everything in their power to support her in doing the right thing. They won't support her in being bad. Her family is rightfully upset and she should not be protected from that.

She should feel and see the full force of the damage of she has caused. And naturally, she would feel squeezed and ashamed, she has [is] doing something shameful. [that pesky old cause and effect thing, ya know? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />]

I am not sure what you are asking him to do. Do you imagine that he should hold a gun to her family's head and make them withhold their outrage? That would be completely inappropriate. She should see their disappointment and anger. Just because she doesn't LIKE it, doesn't mean it should be stopped.

I'm not suggesting it should be stopped because she doesn't like it.

I'm suggesting it should be stopped because it gives her something to hold against you, Hope. Why give her that?

As far as I can see, you have executed an amazing plan A. But the ONE thing, post D-day, that she still resents you for -- again, justifiably or not -- is the alienation from her family. For anyone with an ounce of empathy in their bones, is it really that hard to understand why she would feel this way? Regardless... even if it's not rational, it's pretty obvious that SHE DOES INDEED FEEL THIS WAY.

Why not remove this EXCUSE for her to resent you.... this distraction from the real issue at hand -- whether the two of you have any chance left at reconcilliation -- by asking her family to stop treating her like she's nothing but an embarassment and a disappointment? (No gun to the head needed -- just a polite request <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) If she no longer has that to hold against you... she might just be forced to take a good, hard look at what she really stands to lose.

sc, he should not ask her family to pretend like they aren't disappointed. She needs to see and experience their feelings. She should NEVER be protected from the consequences of her actions. That is not helpful to her potential recovery and sends the wrong signal; that they condone her behavior. In AA, we call that ENABLING, a very destructive and UNLOVING practice.

Hope should not manipulate any family members - or anyone else - into protecting her from the natural consequences of her behavior, that serves no one. Nor do I think her family would be foolish enough to go along with such a plan.

SC, if it were up to my WW she would have me say nothing to no one, seperate with me and slowly introduce OM into everyone's lives including my kids. That won't happen as easily now. She has told me on several occasions that I have ruined her life when the truth of the matter is her actions have ruined her life.

After I exposed in late July when it was an EA (or so I think) she had the option to stop the A but she choose to continue it and turn it into a PA. She told me she was vulnerable and and that it was one mistake. Still it was HER choice and it was planned, which mistakes are not.

I then re-exposed because I knew if I didn't she would just bury deeper underground and continue without any consequences. I have absolutely no regrets on exposing and in fact I truly believe if I didn't things would be much worse right now.

When I talk about my WW family being emarrased it is because of times like when she decided to go to her work Christmas party alone when both her kids were at home with a fever. Or just a couple of weeks ago when she doesn't call at all knowing our DD is sick and it is 8:30 at night. She only comes home after I allow my daughter who had a high fever to call her cell looking for her mom leaving her a voicemail message. These are the types of reasons my WW family is upset with her.

She is a big girl and making big decisions for herself. Those decisions have consequnces.

Don't get me wrong, I love my W dearly, but wherther or not she decides to reconcile will be because she wants to not because her family is upset with her. She risked all this be having an A in the first place.

The reason her family is continually upset with her is that she continues to act in a way that is hurtful to everyone.

Well said, Hope. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

What I advised Hope to do is to speak to her parents regarding "the plan" and that they needed to know what the plan was. I also advised him that she would be stupid to leave someone in Plan A for a household full of LB's and DJ's which is what her parents were doing. We all agree the woman needs to go if she refuses to work on the marriage. Get her parents on board with his plan KNOWING it may not work....

You know there are many people who ask "why would you put up with that?"...well hope is putting up with it and her parents may ask him that same question. They need to support them BOTH....I bet they don't condone either actions but it is easier to have disdain for their daughters behavior.....is it not?

Like I have said before...there is NO WAY I would have done a Plan A while my wife was actively engaged in an affair I knew about. An immediate choice would be made....him or I...NC or adios....

She is already paying for her actions...sooner or later she will begin blaming the person looking back at her in the mirror while she pretties herself up for going out

I have since sat down with them and explained my plan dna for the most part they understand. This is one of the reasons I believe my WW will not stay at her parents house for very long.


Yes, since she won't be able to blame me for much longer. She has a difficult time admitting fault even prior to the A so it will be VERY tough for her to do this.

Hope,
I won't badger you any more about this. I just want you to know that I wasn't questioning anything you've done up to this point, nor was I trying to suggest that you should "regret" ANYTHING. It amazes me that you still want to save your marriage. But if that does indeed continue to be the goal, it just seems to me that your W's alienation from her family -- and her perception that you are fueling it -- COULD be an obstacle to that.
Respectfully,
--SC

Hope,

I think you should listen to SC a bit. I am not sure she is phrasing this in a way that makes sense to you. But, I do think what she is saying is that your W needs to see HOPE that her relationship with her parents, family, etc can be normalized.

I agree with you, that with OM in the picture her parents should not back off with respect to their feelings about her A. But the subtle point SC is (I think) trying to make is that somehow if your W could see hope that things could be turned around it could happen.

What form could it take? I am not sure. Perhaps her parents explaining that they will NEVER accept her A or the OM, but that they do love her and want her back to being the child, daughter, woman that they know exists and that they love.

Just something to think about.

I apologize if I put words in your mouth SC, but your posts struck me as suggesting that there is HOPE for his W.

God Bless,

JL