Ok...I'll keep trying. I've been down this road...

Typical phone conversation:
Me: Honey, I have to work late, but why don't you meet me at <favorite pub> at <time> after I get off?
Her: You know I hate those places. Besides, we both have to get up early tomorrow and I don't want to miss <tv show du jour>.
Me: I just wanted to spend some special time with you.
Her: But can't we do that here?

See how this has been going?

If I didn't have a history of an affair, I'd stop and get that drink anyway, but that undermines my committment to reassure her and be accountable for my time. My getting a drink unescorted is NOT a good idea because of this.

But, I will try again. This time, I WILL push harder. I won't take no for an answer.

In fact, I'll try this evening...and give you the report tomorrow.

"My needs are not being met."

"I am not happily married."

"Unless something changes and soon, I will leave you."

.... have you been THIS clear?

I have been very clear about one and two. I am not prepared to execute number three, so it would be nothing more than an idle threat at this point.

I have said "Something needs to change. We are close to being back where we were before the affair."

Then you are not being honest.

????

wait ... that is overstating ... I am saying you are not being honest with yourself.

If you are miserable and see no way out ... why stay?

Low:

Are you meeting your wife's need for:

Because it seems that you are thinking of leaving her quite a bit. Does she know how much you are thinking of leaving her? Because is her number one need.

Are you both letting each other fill up your love banks?

Just because I don't see a way out, doesn't mean it's not there. That's why I'm here. I keep hoping I'll have an epiphany like I've had before. I keep hoping she'll have a change of heart or somehow I'll find a way to help make that happen. A new solution will present itself.

Yes. Deep down, I know I will leave if we can't find a solution. Losing hope is what terrifies me...me more than you know. It probably scares any married person.

I keep hoping I'll have an epiphany like I've had before

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> for some reason, this made me smile

Where have I said this? I am not PLANNING to leave her! That this could be an outcome scares the bejeezus out of me!



I feel like mine is being ignored lately.

"for better and for worse"

comes to mind

I don't recall "chemistry" or "passion" being mentioned....

is this an epiphany-starter????

Pep. You know me better than this. You know marriages better than this. They do not survive on commitment alone. I am as committed as I've ever been, but you know as well as I do that "worse" can encompass a lot of things.

This not a question of commitment, but a question of whether blind devotion to it is good for both spouses in the long run. Should people stay married under any circumstances? I don't think so.

Therein lies the struggle. At what point is enough...enough? It seems to be different for different people. Some divorce on a whim. Some allow there husbands to beat them within an inch of their life and still won't leave.

Are you trying to get her to leave you?

I think it will be helpful for you to be OPEN, HONEST AND TRANSPARENT with her about your dissatisfaction.

Make her hear you and listen to you. Be firm about this. Look into her eyes. Stand on a table..

Tell her you LOVE HER ENOUGH TO LET HER KNOW HOW YOU ARE REALLY FEELING ABOUT THIS!!

I would also do the other things I suggested.

I continue to think it's OK for you to want CHEMISTRY AND PASSION. That's your personal desire..GO FOR IT...

Maybe some folks don't want it as much as you do...

I think you can attain "IT" with your wife....

Low..

Here's my misguided opinion that is forming...

you got a wife that is NOT meeting your needs and is NOT showing interest in meeting your needs...

and uses her needs not to fill the love bank and then reciprocate...but as weapons.........

her need of accountability becomes a weapon of control...
she refuses to go out with you somewhere.....
makes the demands that you should just want to be with her ...ie at home watching TV...then probably doesn't pay much more or if any attention on you...

I don't think it is chemistry...
because according you ..

she has that chemical connection for you...and it is you that does not have it for her...
yet ironically she does not ACT as if this is so...
and nor do you...

you are the one romancing and chasing...do you know how manys wives hearts would flip if their man who states he is not a "even a good dancer" ...wants to and tries to take their wife dancing......

that is a charming and fun proposition much appealing to a woman interested in a guy.........

and it is your chemically drawn wife that says no...
and it is the chemically lacking husband that asks.......

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
somethings amiss.....

do you still believe that this is a chemical equasion or

is this a blip on the continued road to recovery
or
is this becoming the state of Denmark

or what

ARK

Of course not, TA. My point was that the conditions required to drive one to terminate a marriage seem to vary greatly. I used the abuse example to illustrate an extreme. There is no DV in our home.

The first 2 years of recovery, we were both working hard to make love bank deposits. I think early on it was driven by fear...hers of being rejected and alone, mine of throwing away a wonderful wife and family (I do believe this).

Regardless of the motive, I learned a lot of new habits. I learned a lot about myself. I changed so radically that even my core MBTI profile is now different.

About six months ago, she began reverting to her old behavior style of "Problem? What problem?" She is again refusing to validate my concerns and accusing me of rocking the boat and making mountains out of mole hills. Called me a "drama king" last week. Resentment is again building...this makes me feel disrespected.

Why she has reverted to the old behavior is a mystery to me. You cannot discuss a problem with someone who refuses to see that there is one.

Is it some kind of test? Does she really want me to go?

So, I think it's a little more than blip.

We've ended up getting quite a ways OT. I hadn't intended for this to be a discussion about me and marriage.

Anyway, the promised update:

I called and asked her to go with me to this fine new sushi bar downtown for dinner. She said ok.

I get home to find her crashed in the lazy boy. She said she was tired and not feeling well...could we do it some other time?

You tell me.

Low

I suspect that your wife is no longer trying to be something that she isn't. I think this may be her true personality. The crisis of the affair is past and maybe she is just relaxing and feeling a bit secure again.

Many people are conflict avoiders and that mode of behavior is quite successful for them. I'm sure it is exasperating to live with someone like that, especially for someone like you who likes to chew problems to shreds. I will avoid conflict with my wife if I have a choice. I pick my battles carefully and there are very few hills on which I am prepared to die. I will discuss issues when I must, but I'd rather have calm. I've had way too much drama in the last few years and now I just want quiet.


Low, maybe you are expecting too much from marriage. I know very few long time married people that just gush with enthusiasm for each other. I think that seeing someone in their ratty undies, hearing them fart for the millionth time; listening to them snore and hearing the same stories for years and years just gets to you after a while. I don't really think the problems that you are having have to do with your marriage or your wife. I think the problems have more to do with you. Your life is passing and you may be wondering if this is all there is.


I doubt that your wife is testing you. If she wanted out of the marriage she certainly had her chance and a very valid reason for leaving. I think that most BS that choose to work through an affair and stay married must care deeply for the WS. I’m still amazed that my BS just didn’t say “F it” and file for divorce. I’m still wondering why she didn’t.